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4-po-met

Thanatos

Thanatos

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Joined
Feb 21, 2008
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I am heavily considering using a mushroom substrate impregnated with MET in order to end with mushrooms containing it's 4-phosphoroxy analog/homolog? And then completing an extraction to the point whether I will hopefully precipitate 4-PO-MET with the help of an organic chemist/friend.
I've read about the phosphorization phenomena many times, particularly using DiPT and DPT, but I'd rather not waste my time assembling the required components and setting up the perfect environment if it is impossible for some reason.

If anyone could give me tips on what salt vs freebase I should use, the quantity of MET in the substrate, as well as cultured mushroom strains known for creating almost pure pscilocybin rather than pscilocin I would greatly appreciate it.
 
I could have sworn that it was hydroxylated, not phosphorylated, by the mushrooms.

If I remember correctly, the most prominent example of this was psilocybe mushrooms being fed DiPT and turning out 4-HO-DiPT.

As for hydrochloride or freebase, I imagine freebase would be what the fungus would actually use.
 
yaesutom said:
Also i'll add potassium phosphate in varying amounts first to the mimosa/DMT jars to see if more 4-phosphoryloxy-.. 's come out, - I have a bunch of that in a baggie which I just dumped into a jar with water and checked the ph, its about neutral so I don't think it would affect the growth that much / at all especially adding such small amounts.

I can't find which Tihkal entry but somewhere Shulgin says psilocybin might have to convert first into psilocin before entering the brain - but the acetate ester doesn't, something about the phosphoryloxy group that won't allow it to cross the BBB?

Well we know that 4-AcO-MiPT for example is a much different drug than 4-HO-MiPT, if it was/is possible for 4-phosphoryloxy-MiPT to get into the brain like the acetoxy then i'd assume it would be another different drug. Any idea's? ... could toss some MiPT into the substrate and enough potassium phosphate possibly getting a good amount of 4-PO-MiPT out.. etc..
Click to expand...
Potassium phosphate was the key in internal synthesis of 4-PO tryptamines.
 
So you're going to inject the MET into a mess of mushroom mycelium and hope that appears in the mushroom when they fruit?

I dunno if that would really work entheo. I think I'd go for injecting it into some sclerotica instead and hope that somehow does it. I imagine it's going to be pretty poor yields whatever you do.
 
This is all for noveltys sake my friend, I think I would be too wary to taste them myself if I were to leave the mushrooms intact.
My intention is to make an extraction and hopefully precipitate a 4-PO-MET salt.
 
I have no knowledge on whether this will work but if you ever do decide to do this experiment for the sake of science please keep us posted. This is inccredibly interesting to me and perhaps this could be a breed of mushroom for those who are prone to difficult experiences. If you find success I would definately give this a go as well.
 
There's a lot of info on this subject in a thread on the neuroscience and pharmacology section of BL.
 
OP - here is what I think you should do if you're growing cakes.

You dunk and roll or dunk/case? Anyways, you put your soluble MET in distilled water in a ziploc bag. Birthed cakes go into the ziploc, air removed, and put in fridge for 24 hours. Cakes get removed from dunk (don't throw that MET containing liquid out, reuse it), cased or rolled and into fruiting. Each cake from a standard PF tek jar will take up a certain amount of liquid (containing your MET). The growing mushroom will use the MET containing water as it grows.

The MET will then get incorporated into the growing mushroom. I've got no idea at what rate or to what extent. You might get down regulation of production of actives because of the presence of the MET. You could also get stimulation of production. Don't know.

Tom
 
Biggest hurdle is the actual extraction process you will NEED that organic chemist friend!!! Best of luck.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
I could have sworn that it was hydroxylated, not phosphorylated, by the mushrooms.

If I remember correctly, the most prominent example of this was psilocybe mushrooms being fed DiPT and turning out 4-HO-DiPT.

As for hydrochloride or freebase, I imagine freebase would be what the fungus would actually use.
Click to expand...

Both probably: the tryptamines are partially turned into 4-HO-tryptamines (unless there is steric hindrance from other groups on the tryptamine that might prevent that from happening) which are then partially turned into 4-PO-tryptamines. Remember mushrooms naturally contain both psilocin as well as psilocybin thought content varies, per species, per batch depending on environmental factors etc. Sure phosphate / phosporus source availability from substrate could be one of those factors - it would be key in nature as well as in vitro.

I think you would be far better off trying to synthetically phosporylate 4-HO-MET as yields are IIRC relatively low. It really seems like a blatant waste of good tryptamines to demote using them as substrate enrichers. Maybe if you were to use mimosa hostilis in your substrate mix if you had shitloads of it, but MET seems wasteful.
How do you plan on verifying what the alkaloid contents turn out to be? Whether 4-HO-DMT and 4-HO-MET can be distinguished blindly is doubtful, even if I feel myself like there is a difference between them both in pure synthetic form. I cannot account for placebo effect like psychological bias.
So basically it might boost the potency a bit but not enough to make it worth it, and you probably couldn't notice the difference or the reason for different effects can very easily be from psychological causes.

Not that it is not fascinating to think about as an experiment but is there a realistic point to it? :)

Sorry to be skeptical, hopefully you can consider it to be constructive and just opinionated info
 
I once saw something on th nets about this very thing, though I'm not certain the compound in question was met, but might have been 4-ho-mipt. The chemical was either added to the substrate or sprayed in de-ionised water onto the myceleum. The resulting fruits were prefectly normal except that extraction & analysis proved 4-ho-met/mipt was now present along with the usual po-dmt versions.

I'm really sorry but the page in question was saved on an old PC which got poisoned by some stinking virus a couple years ago & I lost almost everything on it. A quick google with varying combinations of "4-ho-met/mipt in mushrooms" in the search box proved a fail.

Do crack on & keep us informed! When I was alot younger, I used to think it would be cool if someone, somehow could get the dmt molecule into the active ingredients of the marijuana plant! =D

edit - a google for 4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine‎ psychedelic mushrooms
brought more interesting results, including -
Thread: The introduction of 4-aco-dmt and related chemicals to the substrate for shrooms...
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...elated-chemicals-to-the-substrate-for-shrooms
 
Last edited:
Solipsis said:
I think you would be far better off trying to synthetically phosporylate 4-HO-MET as yields are IIRC relatively low. It really seems like a blatant waste of good tryptamines to demote using them as substrate enrichers.[Maybe if you were to use mimosa hostilis in your substrate mix if you had shitloads of it, but MET seems wasteful.
Click to expand...
quoted for truth! especially since MET is not very common (while 4-HO-MET is), I would not want to waste it by feeding it to mushrooms.

and about mimosa hostilisrootbark: I always wonder what would happen if one would use it as substrate for Psilocybe azurescens... =D
 
Can anyone speculate whether the MET analog of baeocystin would be produce in the MET saturated substrate-mushrooms?
The entire reason I'm considering this experiment is for the sake of novelty, wasted product isn't much of a concern for me.
 
Probably, I guess there are enzymes that (de)methylate and interconvert psilocybin and baeocystin, governing that part of the mushroom metabolism that would produce 4-PO-NET i.e. 4-phosphoryloxy-N-ethyltryptamine on the side when 4-HO-MET and 4-PO-MET are created via the same demethylation. Whether there is de-ethylation of 4-PO-MET to produce baeocystin is rather the question IMO.
Good luck on your metocybin endeavors :)
 
Hello all idk about driving the plants to produce a large ratio of 4-po-xxts to 4-ho-xxts but what I am VERY familiar with is loading substrate with tryptamines, ime one prepares his grain jars as usual (hydrate, set 24-48hrs, drain, sterilize) taking care to drain the grain very well atleast 24-36hrs so it can absorb a lil liquid later after the sterilization. Next he would prepare a dilute acetic salt solution of his tryptamine of using dmt he would use 20ml h2o to dissolve 135mg dmt acetate and load that in to a self seal inject vial and placr it in a UV sterilizer for 12hrs. Next he injects the now sterile dmt solution into the sterile grain jars. And lets sit a few hour for it to get close to homeostasis. He would then use LIVE LIQUID CULTURE to innoculate the substrate. Inncubate and fruit as usual. Keeping only the first flush as it seems to be the only fruits that contain the higher concentrations next flushs seem to return back to natural potency. Also only size if the fruits seemed to decrease but mass as in grams seem to be relatively similar to traditional non loaded media.
 
Gartz did a study putting DET in the substrate at different levels its on the net somewhere (i probably posted links on here years ago) and i'm pretty sure only 4-HO-DET came out.. maybe a tiny tiny bit of 4-PO-DET i forget... but i know it was all or mostly 4-HO-DET that came out. I also remember it stopping psilocin/psilocybin production (or only a tiny bit ended up in the shrooms).

I really wish more people would continue experiments... seems pretty worthwhile to me to add some MET (maybe add it to the water before the spores colonize the cake?) and eat the shrooms and see if the trip is like 4-HO-MET.
 
^ how much MET would you suggest I use to at least harbor enough mushrooms for a minimum of 3 full trips? Generally with 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-DET I insufflate between 35-50mg to get to a semi-intense level. I've never grown mushrooms using an 'enriched' substrate so I'm not at all sure what the base material should be in order to give it a few trials.
 
What strains of mushrooms are best known for their 4-PO-DMT:4-HO-DMT ratio?
I have access to EiPT and DALT-proper at the moment as well and figured it wouldn't hurt to try to see if phosphorization would be possible with all three base tryptamines. I'll have the help of an organic chemist to do an extraction so hopefully I can shed some light on previously untested compounds synthesized through semi-organic means.
 
Any news on this compound?

I will be released on the market in April.

Dosage and so on?
 
What is the advantage of this over the 4-ho/4-aco versions? Stability? Or is it more for novelty's sake.
 
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