4-methylaminorex, reagent indications.

[ld50 vs ssri]

*bump*

Any luck yet guys ?

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

*bump*

 

[phase_dancer]

The Elusive Oxazoline

I'm sorry to report I had no luck in finding 4-MAR, or at least I don’t think I did, but nevertheless, it's all a bit mysterious.

After spending 2 days trying to track down someone - boy I'm outer touch these days - and getting all sorts of reports on this stuff, which now seems to have all but gone from the area - I finally found someone who knew someone ......who had a bit saved, although this was from a later batch than what I first saw- and reportedly different in actions.

By the time I'd gotten this far, I felt sure we were doing the old 'mutton dressed as lamb' routine. In other words, this looked to be another misrepresentation of the term. In the end I witnessed small pieces of crystal tested with Marquis, Mandelin, Simons and Robadope reagents.

The sample provided was a single piece crystal ~ 2cm in length x ~ 0.5cm wide. As this observer had left his reading glasses at home, duh! 8) the crystal geometry was not established. 4 x small amounts were scraped off and the reagents applied sequentially. The tests were performed under bright light, on a glass surface with a white background.

RESULTS:

Marquis = instant dirty brown - no orange seen at all.

Mandelin = No colour producing reaction, even after left standing for 3 minutes*

Simons = Slow and minimal blue produced

Robadope = No observed colour produced.

The testing sequence was repeated using slightly larger samples. Results were identical to the above. Amine tests were left longer (5 mins*) and any change observed. Nothing was noticed.

* Reaction times are longer than what's recommended. This is not normal practice.

Results were compared to a sample provided which was known [?] to be meth. This produced classic colour changes (yellow-orange to brown for Marquis and blue-green with Mandelin, and an instant blue with Simons.

So what was this stuff? I expected a more typical reaction from Mandelin, but if there was any colour change, no-one could see it. (The blind observer asked for other's interpretations here)

I guess it could be just an impure form of meth, but the colour with Marquis was very dark, almost as if secondary or background colours may be present. I also expected to see the classic secondary amine colour change; fast and distinctive in colour. Simons turned a known sample of meth instantly blue. Another thought was that Robadope may not be that reliable (old kit) and that the substance was amphetamine.

Amphetamine is presently being sold around Brisbane & the Coasts, advertised as amphetamine made from alpha-(1-Aminoethyl)benzyl alcohol hydrochloride or more commonly known as DL-Phenylpropanolamine hydrochloride (PPA) or norephedrine. Of course the duration is shorter than meth, and the product is essentially only 50% active if pure. Incidentally, PPA is also the starting material for synthesizing 4-MAR


Returning to Biscuit’s question regarding 4-MAR; The chemistry of the 5 membered ring - known as a substituted oxazole ring – is made complicated due to the two heterocyclic atoms (N & O). The 2- Amino-2-Oxazolines - as is 4-MAR – are resonance stabilized and so exist in a tautomeric form depending upon enthalpy. A complete explanation is quite involved but I would say that the ring bound N may not exist as a regular tertiary amine when the amino group is protonated.

In the gas phase, oxazolines are purely tautomeric

The double bonded N of the ring has its lone pair of electrons situated on the “outside” of the aromatic ring. The oxygen has one set of lone pair electrons located outside the ring and one pair incorporated as part of the aromatic electron cloud. The usual result is that the resonance of the ring is reduced and basicity is also reduced. However, as the NH2 and other substitutes are more electron donating than electron withdrawing, resonance & bond energies are greater, and basicity will increase. The oxazoline should therefore be easily protonated.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I suspect the only way of doing so will be to do the tests. I believe the major reason 4-MAR is not more common is that the usual synthesis routes involve cyanogen bromide which is a very nasty chemical. The Merck describes CNBr as "...highly irritant and very poisonous! " AND "Toxic effects similar to those of hydrogen cyanide "

However, there has been some clandestine chatter of late on the bee site which indicates other routes are successful. It may mean 4-MAR has recently, or will in the future be seen more on the local scene. That is if a market actually exists for a drug most have only speculated on, and from other reports hardly seems to be a suitable replacement for meth lovers.

The saga continues....

[Edit: spelling & grammar; p_d]

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

Thank you very much p_d for putting the time and effort into answering my question in the best possible way you could. Very informative and i allways get enjoyment out of reading your posts.

There will be an answer to this saga very soon fingers crossed

It's dedicated people like you that make places like this the reason im a member.

Also thanks Biscuit

 

[Biscuit]

Thanks P_D and ld50.

P_D unusual test results for sure.

Very interesting about PPA being around to synthesise amphetamine. As you said this is the precursor for 4-MAR and if one has CNBr the reaction is straight forward. (Or at least that is what one infers from the syntheses. I of course have never done it and never will)

I can see the headlines now, with some backyard meth cook killing himself from hydrogen cyanide ingestion or just CNBr itself by trying to make this new "super-speed".

One would also hope there is not any CNBr bound up in the crystal matrix of 4-MAR. Marquis and similar will produce posionous hydrogen cyanide on contact. Come to think of it, ingestion of CNBr would just be plain scary full stop.

 

[mongman]

Phase_Dancer: Thankyou! That is some very thought provoking information... Big thumbs up to the contributors to this thread very interesting results so far!

 

[drugfuked]

ice is in town again :O

by ice i mean 4-methylaminorex, Shaboo, Glass

looks like full on broken ice in a bag




i tested it with my mandelin which would change from yellow to green if it were meth-amphetamine

there was no colour change at all, smoke and lotsa bubbles!!

i was like "ooooh its not meth :D... SHABOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

 

[hdang]

i was with a mate the other day, and he was smoking ice. but he said it wasnt normal ice, so we tested it with mandelin and it smoked, fizzed, and didnt change colour. so theres some 4mar in melb at the moment.

 

[Euphoria&Truth]

I've been seeing it for the last month in Melbourne, it is definitely floating around in decent quantities. The quality has been very good also. Though will test the upon my next encounter with it to be sure.

I also find 4-mar to be a lot more euphoric than crystal meth, and a lot more irritating to the throat.

 

[KostoN]

Smoked

When recrystalised, what do the patterns look like in the pipe ?