N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
4-Hydroxybutaldehyde
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Is it known if this chemical is active? It's the primary (only?) metabolite of 1,4-butanediol and I had been very much of the mind that it bdo was a prodrug. It doesn't have the look of an active depressant, I admit, but I'm not certain if it is or isn't.
mad_scientist
Bluelighter
Yes it is active, simply a prodrug for GHB. Two enzymes are involved in the conversion of 1,4-B to GHB, alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase;
1,4-B --> 4-HO-butaldehyde --> GHB
However I'm told that aldehydes are the most hideous compounds to drink so I doubt anyone is going to be taking 4-Hydroxybutaldehyde to get high unless they are really desperate!
MattPsy
Bluelighter
AFAIK the only differences arise from using volumetric measures (ie. a 1mL of 1,4-BD is not going to be equal to 1mL of 1.0g/mL GHB solution), and that their molecular weights are different (so when you take some 1,4-BD, the actual weight of it will increase when it is metabolised to GHB - the molar amount won't, though, clearly).
That and of course the pharmacokinetics will be different, so they'll feel different due to different rates of increase in plasma concentration of active drug, and 1,4-BD probably has some intrinsic activity of it's own too.
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Thanks for the clarification.
LuxEtVeritas
Bluelighter
are alkylated hydroxybutyrates greater, equal to or lesser in potency than the parent (ie., ethyl hydroxybutyrate)? any hard number here?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
A better bet would be the acetal of the aldehyde ie 4,4-diethoxy-1-hydroxybutane. It'll be cleaved in the acidic conditions of the stomach to one molecule of the 4-hydroxybutraldehyde and 2 molecules of ethanol and also avoid the horrible taste if aldehydes while going through the mouth (that's what they do - make such adduct compounds - to make make chloral more pallitable)
Could alwayd go the the cyclic acetal formed from 4-hydroxybutraldehyde & 1,4-butanediol if you were wanting to be very efficient! 
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Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Doesn't a 2:1 ratio of Ethanol to GHB in the end seem like a bad idea though?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Not for the amount of ethanol released from a dose of the hydroxybutraldehyde. A 2g dose of the acetal is gooing to release a piddling amount of ethanol, hardly enought to even consider worrying abouy
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
What exactly is a dose of GHB in mg? I've always seen it in ml, which made it seem quite impotent.
Does anyone know if Amisulpiride or sulpiride have any redeeming qualities? I see they're GHB agonists.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
A dose of GHB is usually 2-3 grams depending on where you want to go with it, so 2,000-3,000 milligrams. The dilution is 'standardly' set at 1 gram = 1 ml but often you will get weaker solution esp if you buy it from shady people.
Ham-milton said:
wow, the metabolism has to go thru 2 steps then, it must go thru these extremely fast. I drank a capfull of lab grade BDO(larger than a soda cap from the .5L bottle it comes in) and it kicked in INSTANTLY!, I mean this is no placebo, from the reports I've read I was expecting 20min atleast, but I was wrecked.
negrogesic
Bluelight Crew
With 1,4-bdo, it certainly feels like there are two types of intoxications going on, and is qualitatively somewhat different in comparison to both NaGHB and GBL. From my experience 1ml of BDO was roughly equal to 1.5 grams of NaGHB, though since BDO is quite different such comparisons are hard to make. Whether or not ethanol plays a role in its effects, BDO is quite a bit more "alcohol-like" than GHB (the dizziness is more profound).
It is not as fast-acting as NaGHB, and BDO lasts somewhat longer. BDO usage can also result in hang-overs, whereas GHB generally does not.
I've only had 2 experiences with BDO, my 1st one as I mentioned kicked in after like a minute(literally) and was very intense, I was forced to goto the supermarket(very bad) and had to leave abruptly to go puke in the parking lot and then I slept hard for several hours, had my phone next to my ear but nothing could wake me. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as when I puke off alcohol and in the beginning was WAY more euphoric.-Almost in a trippy way, I had a perma-grin goin and I thought "now I know why they call this liquid E"
2nd time I did it I actually mixed it with beer, I didn't drink enough beer to even get a buzz but I wasn't feeling the BDO either so I kept taking more, and more and more... but nothing till like 6hours later when I took 1 last cap of BDO and almost died from it. Come to find out that beer or alcohol blocks the enzyme the converts BDO to GHB. So I was completely sober till the drinks where completely out of my system I guess then WHAMO I was in a chemically induced coma for 3 days cuz I blacked out and choked on my vomit. That was the last time I ever took it.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I had some fun with BDO for a while... I went through 100mL in about two years. The first 40mL I didn't really like much... it made me feel dizzy and not particularly euphoric, and extremely intoxicated. I used it occasionally to come down from stimulants. Then one time I used it, and BAM, it was euphoric. So I used it on and off after that until it was gone. Overall it always made my limbs hurt similarly to alcohol and gave a minor hangover, nothing compared to alcohol though. It made me feel "sloppy", and certainly wasn't a great drug by any means.
