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4-fluorococaine, how to test if real or fake?

K

Kassadin

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Apr 26, 2011
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7
Hi,

First of all, iapologies in advance for my english, cause i'm not an english native language speaker.

I have a question, cause i just got an amount of 4-fc (Cas n° 134507-62-3) and i wish to be sure if i really got what i wished or not. I read somewhere that the "flash point" is usually 191 °C (i don't know why was written flash point instead of melting point in that document) but i wasn't able to found enough information for my porpose (deterrmine if real or fake), so my question is:

Can you help me, even describing me or suggesting me the taste, the smell, the tested melting point in °C, other tests that i can perform (possibly with common equipment) and all the valuable information that you think can help me to determine if what i got is legit or fake?

-my best regards in advance, with the hope to become a good member of your community
 
You cannot determine what it is using common equipment. There is a reason companies and governments spend billions determining the chemical composition of unknown samples.

However Im guessing the pure compound should be white crystals. But that is purely tentative and cannot be used as a measure alone. If you received some purple or red powder, its probably not pure.
 
It should be a 2-Erythroxylon Alkaloid binded with a tropane which they're are test to determine if the alkaloid content is pure. It depends on how the company that made the drug synthesized it. I would guess it was prepared by passing HCl in a soln. of tropine base & mandelic acid in water. Start with solubility and a pH test to determine some properties. I know that they're three test that can be used: Vitali-Morin test, P-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde, or the Gerrard's test. I would start with gerrard's test:
Alkaloid + 2% HgCl2 in 50% Ethanol → If given a:
Red colour Atropine
Red after warming Hyoscyamine
White ppt Hyoscine
 
Thank you for your reply, but i don't think that test like checking the melting point cost bilions, the problem is that i haven't been able to found sure information about the melting point, the taste, the smell, and other characterizing aspect of this chemical research, so i'm asking for information to people that have already been in touch with this chemical for obtain sure information.

I will appreciate any help, thank in advance
 
Jellybelly92 said:
I know that they're three test that can be used: Vitali-Morin test, P-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde, or the Gerrard's test. I would start with gerrard's test:
Alkaloid + 2% HgCl2 in 50% Ethanol → If given a:
Red colour Atropine
Red after warming Hyoscyamine
White ppt Hyoscine
Click to expand...
So. basically, the gerrard's test will help me to check if is an atropine derivate, that will be enough in effect.
May you describe me better this test or post a link where is explained for non skilled people like me.

Btw, thanks a lot for your contribution... may i ask why when i look for this chem on the various site, is stated 191°C flashing point instead of melting point? you know the reason ?

thank again
 
sekio said:
The flash point is the point where the vapour will combust, not the melting point.
Click to expand...

I know, and for this i say that is strange... anyone is able to found or know the real melting point of 4-fc so i can do also this test for check if real (and pure) or not ?
 
It is possible that the liquid phase is so small that it will go from a solid to a vapor with no intermediate liquid phase. That's my guess I found a couple articles on ACS website but nothing that would explain why there is no melting point. Have you looked at an MSDS of the compound?
 
Jellybelly92 said:
Have you looked at an MSDS of the compound?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately i wasn't able to found any msds of the compound, otherwise i already had all the information that i need. Is possible that noone get in touch with this chem research before ?
 
I have a strong feeling that since it's a monosubstituted version of cocaine, the only people who have used or have access to actual 4-fluorococaine work in research labs.

The synthetic precursors to 4-fc are all controlled just as tightly as normal cocaine and it is unlikely that it is going to be sold on the open market the same way things like meph are.

The lack of MSDS sheets and/or research data means the only real way to test it would be HPLC or GC/MS and NMR.
 
I personally own an melting point apparatus , which is techincally a rather "crude" method. HPLC etc is the answer, costly as it may be, and even then, requires keen interpretation..........
 
Reading the various reply, considering the lack of msds data, i start to consider the possibility that is really hard to get the 4-fc in the way that seem that i get... so, my new question is, Anyone has previously get real 4-fc in some way, is this really available on the market or actually is just a lab research on small quantity ? your experience will be useful to understand the actual situation
 
I have heard of 4-fluorotropacocaine [or was it tropacocaine?] on the market (i.e. 4-fluorococaine minus the carboxymethyl, which is responsible to a large degree for the euphoric effects) that was reportedly unpleasant and essentially just a local anesthetic on par with lidocaine. The tropacocaines are, however, produced from compounds that are structurally similar to (but really hard to convert into) cocaine precursors.
 
Yes, the synthesis of fluorotropacocaine in known, and there are data available around, but we are talking about different substance with a different power.
 
Undoubtedly. But the precursors for 4-fluorotropacocaine are not controlled as strictly as the synthetic precursors to the carboxymethyl cocaine analogs. I doubt any labs have legitamite needs for ecoginine anymore...
 
This is a month old thread I know, but I would think that a $2 urine immunoassay test for cocaine would work to at least tell whether the compound was 4-fluorococaine or fluorotropacocaine. Since p-fluorococaine should readily be metabolized into methyl ecgonine it will undoubtedly produce a strong true positive for cocaine a few hours after use. Fluorotropacocaine on the other hand since it lacks the carboxylic group might have some cross reactivity but should at most give a mild false positive. If you instead purchased an at home cocaine urine test which includes lab analysis (about $50 last time I checked which was years ago) it would tell you conclusively since the methylecgonine they test for will be produced equally by fluorococaine as it would from regular cocaine and any tropacocaine analog would be incapable of producing a positive result in a gc-ms.
 
Were you able to determine what substance(s) you were holding there? Did you administer it in the case of the stuff being 4-Fluorococaine?
 
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