4-FA + 5-MeO-MiPT (Urgent Advice Requested)

[fourtysevenpercent]

Friend has been binging on 4-fa for the last 12 hours, about 200mgs maybe more. He snorts it from 5-20mg's and ate 70mg. Oh let me rephrase that, he's consumed about 7 or 8 grams of 4-fa in the last 6 weeks. So to my story....

He decided to take the 5-MeO-MiPT regardless of what I had to say. He says 4mg's on a cheap scale, then he divided it and snorted it. About an hour before that he tried licking little specks like sub milligrams every 20mins, during which time there was probably 2, 10mg bumps of nasal 4-fa. LOVE THE BURN! Yeah I'm only so so with 4-fa, but anyways....

Do I need to worry about anything here?! I've been googling for foxy/moxy/amphetamine/uhhh. I have one, 1mg etiz, plenty of .5mg kpins, and some 50mg hydroxyzine, benadryl? and piracetam? and aspirin?.

I'm not worried about a bad trip for him, just if his heart is gonna function fine or is he gonna feel like a tremoring heart pounding anxious beast who thinks he's gonna die? I am also aware that even 5mg's can be quite an effect, so don't yell at me! Yell at him! I'm also very sure if the uhh 2-4 unknown cheap scale milligrams don't kick in, he WILL take more, I try my best to help, but people are people and I'm just trying to help/observe.

 

[Solipsis]

I share your concern, 5-MeO-MiPT can seriously boost heartrate and blood pressure and with amphetamines this can be dangerous. These drugs can indeed make you lose self control which is something he doesn't seem to have in the first place.

Now just draw the line and say that he should be satisfied with all this 4-FA which is a LOT of course, and that you refuse to let him endanger himself like that and he can take 5-MeO-MiPT some other time.

Is it your 5-MeO-MiPT ? If so you can say that you are not sharing any more of it with him for these same reasons. If he thinks you are being cheap, just let him and explain later.

(Also an idea: put the 5-MeO-MiPT away immediately - for example in your pocket which it will not leave - then decide with him after how much 4-FA you think it is best to stop and measure that out. Then put the 4-FA away as well. That way boundaries can be set otherwise he might go on and on until he breaks)

Mixing uppers and downers is not a particularly safe and smart idea but if he starts having difficulties it might be better to help calm his body and mind down. A small dosis can help to take the edge off peripheral effects, and when the crash is taking the upper hand over residual effects.

Etizolam and klonopin can help with that. Generally speaking it is better to not take anything else and ride it out but with binges it could limit encitotoxicity maybe, and ongoing oxidative stress.
Piracetam, aspirin, benadryl and hydroxyzine NOT.

If you have anti-oxidants and vitamins, give him that, and make sure he drinks enough water and electrolytes.

(And I will be editing the thread title to remove the caps)

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

Thank you for telling me hydroxyzine and benadryl won't help as I would have considered that. My friend is one of those "drug" friends, it's HIS 5-meo-mipt though. He's been suffering many cardiac problems as of late, due to 4-fa, a-pvp binges/OD's, and an mdppp...

All of a sudden his heart just started racing fast and he felt sick, shaky, trembly. .5mg klonopin and 1mg etizolam taken just before that happened. I told him to breathe in for 5, hold for 2, out for 7...

What else can I do to help...

And now he is calming down. This is common for him on any drug though, always getting extra paranoid, anxiety psychosis I guess.

Any and all information would be used and greatly appreciated if not needed.

 

[Solipsis]

MiPT is actually the name of another drug so please don't mix up those names It's tickling my OCD quirks.

Benadryl and hydroxyzine are antihistaminergic - under normal circumstances pretty useful but they have mental effects of their own that you don't want to tempt, throwing in a mix. It could potentially be a problem for things like amphetamine psychosis, confusion, dehydration, I cannot really predict it beyond that and I don't know wht the chance would be but I would just avoid - he has enough issues as it stands.

The heart problems are obviously not surprising, we can sit here and talk about how he should take it easy before he gets himself killed but I honestly don't really know how to get someone to moderate his drug use unless he already wants to himself.

If he already has anxiety issues and stuff like that, it will only get worse doing shit like this. You definitely don't want chronic (or semipermanent) motivation, energy and anxiety issues from taking the piss with stims like that.

What else to do? Well not much, is the end in sight regarding this binge? Maybe without sounding like a parent or anything, you could discuss what getting high is worth and what it isn't worth... if there really are things he wants to avoid, he'd better set up some ground rules about things that should be avoided.

Like certain frequencies of use, certain combinations.
I am personally happy that I started seeing addiction counsel to keep track of my use and abuse. It has improved over time, I am not at all as much out of control anymore.

But I assume you meant advice about what to do right now, rather than how to deal with the chronic abuse..

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

Okay well it was actually 2 etizolams he took I guess. He went to do more 4-fa because he was tired but felt good from the mipt, I advised him... and of course convinced... him otherwise.

thank you blue light for at the very least being there, I've dealt with almost 4 research chemical OD's now and only one required hospitalization because I thought he actually lost his mind, and I know what the beshroomed feels like!

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

MiPT is actually the name of another drug so please don't mix up those names It's tickling my OCD quirks.

Benadryl and hydroxyzine are antihistaminergic - under normal circumstances pretty useful but they have mental effects of their own that you don't want to tempt, throwing in a mix. It could potentially be a problem for things like amphetamine psychosis, confusion, dehydration, I cannot really predict it beyond that and I don't know wht the chance would be but I would just avoid - he has enough issues as it stands.

The heart problems are obviously not surprising, we can sit here and talk about how he should take it easy before he gets himself killed but I honestly don't really know how to get someone to moderate his drug use unless he already wants to himself.

If he already has anxiety issues and stuff like that, it will only get worse doing shit like this. You definitely don't want chronic (or semipermanent) motivation, energy and anxiety issues from taking the piss with stims like that.

What else to do? Well not much, is the end in sight regarding this binge? Maybe without sounding like a parent or anything, you could discuss what getting high is worth and what it isn't worth... if there really are things he wants to avoid, he'd better set up some ground rules about things that should be avoided.

Like certain frequencies of use, certain combinations.
I am personally happy that I started seeing addiction counsel to keep track of my use and abuse. It has improved over time, I am not at all as much out of control anymore.

But I assume you meant advice about what to do right now, rather than how to deal with the chronic abuse..

Everything I've been telling him...

 

[Solipsis]

Alright, well the best of luck to both of you with this - neither binges and their consequences / side-effects nor addiction or drug abuse are a picknick, the The Dark Side forum on bluelight might be better equipped for such troubles in the long run, they have actual focus on these matters... but generally you are certainly welcome here when psychedelics are involved.

If you take more 4-FA every time you start feeling tired, then you will of course stay awake without end, until the sleep deprivation is so strong that your brain starts shutting itself down temporarily with micro-sleep. You might be familiar with that: just zonking out for a moment and regaining consciousness again immediately after that.
The point is, in a binge like that you are hiding from yourself the fact that the really good part is over. Then it is only delay of 'execution', just like a snooze button on your alarm clock. How enjoyable is snoozing really? We think it is better than the alternative, but IMO beyond a certain point in a binge it is not fun anymore but rather mindless maintenance. This agonizing delay is just very unhealthy and it is better to just get it over with.

I've certainly been there with amphetamines including 4-FA. Fortunately I stopped fooling myself into thinking that it really had a point to get unbelievably high and then for the most part of the time regretting that it cannot always be like that. It might feel good for a while, but there is no real peace in that imbalance.

Anyway I try not to judge, like I just said I know what it is like. Though when ODing is involved, how bad does it have to get to face the music and pay your dues?

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

The post above this, thank you. Everyone thank you for being so kind of sharing advice. I do want to let you guys know though it's really about my friend I'm not trying to avoid self incrimination here. Tonight I actually binged on 4-fa for 24 hours, unknown total dose, small doses each time though, like 10-20mg. Also shared this experience with an old friend who turns out to be at my university, studying molecular biology, wants to be neuro pharmacologist.... but she's a speed freak too, hardcore. They say they get no come down from 4-fa because of tolerance/style of use?? Also, it was a crazy night for him, tons of "my heart" type anxiety, wayyyy toooo often. Kept bumping 10mg's of 4-fa about 4-7 an hour and every time it'd get his heart going. I'd call that for sure a manifestation of his mind, because sometimes I can reassure him he'sl fine, but then he'll like get up or move and freak out that his heart reacted the way it did(beat fast and pound I guess)... But the obviously answer is..... a strained and stressed cardio system just responding with what it's got, which means getting out of bed might make your heart race, or even simple bending down and picking things up.

Honestly you can help people to a certain point, I'm hoping 2-fma will treat him better. Thanks for listening. This was my first amphetamine binge, plus so many other drugs and supplements.... Damn it was almost fun except the chemical of choice was poor, as was the persons state of anxiety towards his heart the whole time. And he always wondered how I managed to hold onto 5g of 4-fa for over a year, or why I didn't feel like 70mg's as if it wasn't going to affect the rest of my day. Trying to think of something that might help him, like piracetam and choline and a better safer but good enough for him, drug.

Ugh I'm half retarded right now I'm gonna stick to the original plan of nootropics instead of quick fixes like amphetamines/other 'functional' stims. I'd like to imagine I'd be to hold on to five grams of 2-fma for over a year this time too!!!

 

[rickolasnice]

Solipsis - thank you for being so kind of sharing advice.

Fixed

Btw if he insists on future stimulant drug use I've found MPA to be A LOT more friendlier than any of those you have mentioned.

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

Fixed

Btw if he insists on future stimulant drug use I've found MPA to be A LOT more friendlier than any of those you have mentioned.

Okay thank you! I'll tell him because he might as well get a drug that's better for him, I mean I'd be helping him out because there's not too much I can say to him or do to him to make him do otherwise, just help him think otherwise.

Yeah sorry bout the last post, a little rant I guess....

Alright thread is over!!! Conclusion, benzos, hydration, and reduction of anxiety psychosis will help. Oh, and don't keep taking drugs that mess with your heart if you don't enjoy it. I'd like to ask a question here, isn't there a crowd who prefer high dose stims because of the extra periphery effects or the obvious "I"m tweeking balls right just look at me". But I said thread closed, so I'll find the answer elsewhyr.

 

[fourtysevenpercent]

Just or a little story of the rest of the nice...

So the mipt kicked in, yes I know 5-meo-mipt, but I'm calling it mipt until I actually have a reason to talk about MiPT . Well basically the comeup was pretty stimulating, he would not want to go outside for a walk, I'm like dude I just need to walk. Never does things that help... Anyways, he thinks he's dying, asks me to stay and don't leave, I'm like dude why the fuck why I leave I just dosed a couple mg's of mipt with you! I feel the same way, and I told him, and then he felt better, but then as he gets up, his heart starts racing, because it's a poor cardiac system with drugs and anxiety, so he freaks out again lmao.... No it's not funny at all. Anyways, sooner than later, we both feel really relaxed, very happy, like... fucking good. I'd say we really only 2mg's mipt. So I go home to shower because I have been tweaked up on 4-fa for the last 15 hours, and I put on a trap mix I never heard, got in the shower. I almost never dance, I was so happy, dancing like a fucking retard but with RHYTHM! I never have rhythm, only for short 1 minute bursts. God how wonderful. So I get back there, and it was okay. He fucking drinks, total of like 4mg etiz in the last 24h, 2 of which were a little bit ago, with zero tolerance to benzos atm. Gets hammered, bumps 10mg's 4-fa, mildly worried about his heart half the time, just completely fucked.... then he was fine and bumping 4-fa 5-10mg's(likes the burn I guess) and seemed fluent and cool....

this dude has also taken 120mg 4-aco-dmt with 70mg mxe the day after he took 100mg 4-aco-dmt. Jesus maneeeeeee.... I've been trying to get him to take nootropics, but since he's always on 4-fa everyday day all day even at work, the nootropics don't do enough to convince him. Long term stimulant abuse, with multiple close calls(od's), has proven to be almost fatal. I think he takes more drugs sometimes, knowing he shouldn't, just to see what happens, because he doesn't care if he dies. But then he lives, and has to deal with it. So it's like... god damn dude. You could have used the 4-fa as a weekend thing to make friends, 4-aco-dmt to get spiritual, and etizolam to reduce anxiety during the week when you aren't 4-fa to make you more social(that was lol kind of).

Alright peace.

 

[Solipsis]

Before you pass on any suggestions about other stims like MPA based on what any singular person says, please consult the MPA megathread to read about other reactions as well so that you have a better idea of the possibilities of what you might be getting yourselves into.

Closing thread per request. ;]