4-f-mpapb

[Solipsis]

4-f-mapb

Right now I don't have a structure at hand but I will try to compose one tomorrow and add it to the thread.

Basically this is the 4-fluoro homologue (analogue?) of 4-MeMAPB which basically are both 4-substituted variations on the compound called buphedrone.

The thread on 4-MeMAPB was closed because it only begot off-topic stuff and no one seemed to (want to) try it, please let's not ruin this one as well - I was sorry to see the other one go.

In my experience 4-fluoro substituted PEA stimulants are smoother than their methylated or unsubtituted counterparts, I am not sure though how 4-F stimulants' effects on the heart (and vascular system) change compared to the 4-methyl stimulants? Guys?

So the main questions I would like to ask (while waiting for someone to report on this since it is actually available somewhere) is: would you try it based on the structure? (assuming you would titrate very carefully like one should)
And people who have experience with buphedrone and some ADDy knowledge do you think that compound has any worth at all warranting the research of a 4-F form?

 

[melange]

all I know is that para halogenated pea's are fucking neurotoxic

 

[Solipsis]

I'm not entirely sure but that would be the bromo and chloro amphetamines (not all PEAs anyway, look at the psychedelic ones, they certainly do not count) but not fluoro.

I think you are mistaken that this holds true for all halogen-substitutions. Otherwise I would ring an alarmbell for 4-FMP!

The halogenated compound also shows a mild serotogenic release in the user giving it a very slight resemblance to MDMA, it also differs from other halogenated amphetamines in that it is not known to be as neurotoxic compared with para-chloroamphetamine, para-bromoamphetamine and para-iodoamphetamine. It is noted that the potency of 4-FMP is roughly 2/3 that of dextroamphetamine. 4-FMP when insufflated tends to numb the nasal cavity and can be extremely painful, this way of administration should be avoided. It is suggested that this compound does not have the harsh come down like other CNS stimulants.

I don't know how neurotoxic 4-FMP is exactly but I can read everywhere that it is 'less' neurotoxic than MDMA or the other halogenated amphetamines. Well if it is less neurotoxic than MDMA and 4-F-MAPB is not much more neurotoxic than 4-FMP then I would think it is alright to try at least once. So I am not panicking about the 4-F on it.

Oh and sorry about the title f*k-up, if anyone would like to change that, thanks - the first P has to go!

 

[melange]

sorry man, I am high, I was thinking about all amp substitutions and the like

 

[<pyridinyl_30>]

I was disappointed in 4-FA, and 2CF and DOF sound like losers. It seems like that just because everyone learns in freshman chemistry that F is the most electronegative atom, they think, "Wow, let's add it to this phen!" But, in reality, F is about the same size as H, which is a very small atom, perhaps too small for our purposes. So, no, I wouldn't be interested in trying it.

As for the -CF3's, fenfluramine (N-ethyl-3-CF3-amphetamine) turned out to be steadfastly cardiotoxic when used with phentermine (alpha, alpha-dimethyl-pea) in the rx weight loss combo, 'phen-fen.' I will say from experience that phentermine definitely sucks as a stimulant, and it also gave me one of the worst amphetamine psychoses imaginable after a single, solitary binge.

I'm sticking with Adderall for now.

 

[<pyridinyl_30>]

After I posted that -CF3 paragraph, I actually developed a sick urge to assay 3,4-di-CF3-amphetamine and 3,4,5-tri-CF3-amphetamine. That is sick, right?

 

[ebola?]

Most people who try 4-fluoro-amp like it a lot.

A Nichols study found 4-fa non-neurotoxic (MDMA serving as an experimental contrast). Is the some frequency of dosing 4-fa that IS neurotoxic? Very likely, there is.

I don't get the SAR logic of 4-f-mapb. It appears that long alpha-chains on beta-ketone substituted phenethylamines makes for DARIs, making ring-substitutions far less promising.

I was disappointed in 4-FA, and 2CF and DOF sound like losers. It seems like that just because everyone learns in freshman chemistry that F is the most electronegative atom, they think, "Wow, let's add it to this phen!" But, in reality, F is about the same size as H, which is a very small atom, perhaps too small for our purposes. So, no, I wouldn't be interested in trying it.

Where bulkier substitutions prove neurotoxic (see 4-Chloro-A), 'small bumps' might prove appropriate.

ebola

 

[atara]

4-FMP when insufflated tends to numb the nasal cavity and can be extremely painful

what?!

all I know is that para halogenated pea's are fucking neurotoxic

As far as organic chemistry is concerned, fluorine isn't really a halogen. It doesn't undergo electrophilic aromatic substitution, doesn't form Grignards, and its compounds don't act as alkylating agents in any meaningful way.

 

[melange]

listen, I am not that smart(trying to teach myself), and you know more than me, but I know for a FACT that fluorine is a halogen.

 

[atara]

Well, yeah.

Organohalide chemistry almost always involves the halogen-carbon bond being broken. This is characteristic of chlorine, bromine, and iodine, but is impossible with fluorine except under certain extreme conditions (i.e. reaction with liquid sodium). 4-fluoroamphetamine's metabolism is therefore very different than that of parachloroamphetamine. This applies to any fluorine analog of any chlorine compound -- they are always entirely different from a metabolic perspective. And so we see that 2C-C is active where 2C-F is not.

Also fluorine is a hydrogen bond acceptor, whereas other halogens are not.

 

[sekio]

To the best of my knowledge, the longer the aliphatic chain becomes, the less the cathinone behaves like an amphetamine-type releaser and the more it becomes a methylphenidate-like dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Perhaps 3,4-dichloro-buphedrone would be an interesting compound, or something of the like - there is a lot of talk of, and even experimental agents based off the 3,4 dichloro analog of methylphenidate, and i believe the 3,4 dichloro analog of MDPV was tested in the paper which introduced it. I haven't heard that these compounds are explicitly toxic in the same way that the para-halogenated amphetamines (and any strong releasers) are - by inducing massive release of monoamines on a scale that allows toxic metabolites to build up.

I recall Dr. Shulgin saying in TiKHAL that fluorine really behaves like a "fake hydrogen" more than a proper halogen, due to its size. The whole "aromatic with a halogen = TOXIC" myth makes me kind of sad. (see: 5-iai and its relative nontoxicity)

As to the compound named in the topic, I expect it to have roughly the same effects of buphedrone. It is very possible that some negative effects of buphedrone may be reduced in this compound by preventing the formation of 4-hydroxy metabolites.

 

[tamtoot]

4-f-mabp

It was bioassayed by the people of the hive
https://www.hyperlab.info/inv/index.php?act=ST&f=17&t=28249&

they say 100 mg im is similar to 60 mg of MCAT, there is less cardiovascular load and the action is smoother, no stereotypical behavior, no empathogenesis.

 

[vecktor]

Well, yeah.

Organohalide chemistry almost always involves the halogen-carbon bond being broken. This is characteristic of chlorine, bromine, and iodine, but is impossible with fluorine except under certain extreme conditions (i.e. reaction with liquid sodium). 4-fluoroamphetamine's metabolism is therefore very different than that of parachloroamphetamine. This applies to any fluorine analog of any chlorine compound -- they are always entirely different from a metabolic perspective. And so we see that 2C-C is active where 2C-F is not.

Also fluorine is a hydrogen bond acceptor, whereas other halogens are not.

Thinking about the apparent inactivity of the 2c-x compounds the most sensible explanation is the small size of the 4 substituent. 2C-C is active because it is bigger, the aryl chlorine is going nowhere metabolically. 2C-H is not active either, however several of the N-substituted derivatives are, which suggests that the N substitution is pushing the molecule sufficiently to mean a just having a hydrogen at 4 is sufficient to stabilise the active conformation of 5ht2a R

the reason for 4-FA having a different neurotoxic potential then PCA is probably to do with it being less effective as a serotonin releaser and hyperthermic agent and not to do with any metabolic issues:- both have the 4 position (where vanilla amphetamine is metabolised) blocked, metabolically any aryl-halogen bond is pretty much inert.

I have always thought it interesting that 4-fluoro methamphetamine can produce serotonin syndrome along with hyperthermia which would suggest that it is capable of producing neurotoxicity.


There is also a false dogma that fluorine is somehow so chemically special the bond never breaks, I guess it comes from the inertness Teflon and CFC's??

for example there are numerous examples of aromatic C-F bond cleavage in nucleophilic substitution, like when electron deficient aryl fluorides react with amines to give arylamines a reaction which often faster than the corresponding chloride.

Magnesium metal can also cleave the C-F bond, the reaction is driven by the energetically favourable formation of mgF2 there have been several serious incidents over the years with Mg cleaving fluorine-carbon bonds in the preparation of fluoro grignards.

back to the topic, 4-fluoromethcathinone was pretty uninteresting the other isomers were better, I can't see anything interesting coming out of 4-fluorobuphedrone If that indeed is what is being discussed.

 

[Solipsis]

To each their own then, because I found 4-FMC very interesting indeed and one of my favorite stimulant experiences despite it being so smooth that it borders on weak. The subtilitily and entactogenesis were totally worth it to me and I have this weird feeling that it is not as bad (i.e. toxic) as 4-MMC, but who knows....
Maybe this is discussed ad nauseam in other topics already but are 4-fluoro's not less toxic then 4-methyls, lets say in otherwise phenyl-unsubstituted PEAs?

And I am getting mixed signals here about cleavage of halogen-carbon bonds in either halogenated 2C-X or halogenated stimulants. Does it happen under physiological conditions to a worrying degree and if so is the halogen moiety not quenched in some way to neutralize it? I really don't think there is any need to worry about elemental halogens but still, do they do damage when getting attached to other molecules or form radicals?
About 4-F-MAPB though, the buphedrone part makes it less interesting to me rather than the 4-F part. Hey wait, is buphedrone even N-substituted like this one? I forgot.

The structure of the title compound will have to wait a bit since I need a connection on my laptop that has chem office for it, and I will probably be away soon since my 97-Y.O. grandfather's condition is getting quite bad.

 

[adder]

Basically this is the 4-fluoro homologue (analogue?) of 4-MeMAPB which basically are both 4-substituted variations on the compound called buphedrone.

If you say so:

 

[vecktor]

And I am getting mixed signals here about cleavage of halogen-carbon bonds in either halogenated 2C-X or halogenated stimulants. Does it happen under physiological conditions to a worrying degree and if so is the halogen moiety not quenched in some way to neutralize it? I really don't think there is any need to worry about elemental halogens but still, do they do damage when getting attached to other molecules or form radicals?

with the 2c-x and DOX compounds the halogen is going nowhere metabolically, it is going to stay stuck on the benzene ring and then be excreted (in whatever form) still stuck on the ring,
same applies to the ring halo amphetamines.

 

[Solipsis]

The high dose needed for this scares me off a bit, honestly...
For true and proven compounds, or at least quite a bit more often assayed ones, it is more acceptable.

 

[adder]

Any similarity to methcathinone makes it not interesting at all. Like we're here in search of another mephedrone.

 

[<pyridinyl_30>]

Most people who try 4-fluoro-amp like it a lot.

Well, I didn't think 4-FA lived up to the hype that I had read about it at the hive, but maybe I'm the exception. It definitely wasn't as desirable to me as amphetamine would have been at the same dosage level.

And buphedrone wasn't much better than coffee in my opinion, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Solipsis]

I must apologize: there is a thread about this compound and about 3 or 4 others that seem to have been synthesized parallel/simultaneously (here).

Personally I find 4-FA / 4-FMP one of the selected compounds to go out on. bk-MDMA is another winner and 4-FMC was an unexpected success for me as a good 'lounge euphoriant'. Ethcat was another alright stim for me. The N-pyrrolidines are total losers for me, as was bk-MBDB.
Apart from the personal taste that seems to be involved I do hope no one gets themselves hurt 'researching' these compounds in an "unseemly" fashion.