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4-ethylmethcathinone

correct. And the synthetic procedures necessary to produce salts of non n-subbed cathinones with stability necessary to even make it through the synthesis are pretty tough/convoluted.

Andy
 
correct. And the synthetic procedures necessary to produce salts of non n-subbed cathinones with stability necessary to even make it through the synthesis are pretty tough/convoluted.

Andy
 
lostinshell said:
adder so you mean that 3mmc would be less speedy? maybe similar to methylone?
yes morishness is right, something like addiction but while using the substance..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=morish
(dont know from where it comes from but it's a useful word)
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No, not similar to methylone or MDMA at all. It's a different story really.

Methamphetamine uptakes blocking ratios are as such: NAT : DAT is 1:2.35 and NAT:SERT is 1:44.5 - it's easily seen methamphetamine does very little on SERT compared to DAT, similar ratios are for releasing properties of methamphetamine, but impact on 5HT is even less).

Mephedrone's ratio NAT:SERT is far better than 1 to 44.5 so serotonin effects are more pronounced and play a much bigger role in subjective effects of drug.

Now, 3-methylmethcathinone is even a better releaser and blocker of SERT to such an extent that dopamine and noradrenaline effects are "interrupted". So you most likely end up with some kind of speedy drug but with dopamine effects overwhelmed by serotonin effects and that means less abuse probability as in the whole series of amphetamines, the reward path is the most important concerning euphoria from any drug. And this also applies to cathinones as they're analogs of amphetamine.

These aren't my assumptions on activity. For methamphetamine blocking properties, check:
Rothman, et al. "Amphetamine-Type Central Nervous System Potently than they Release Dopamine and Serotonin."

I don't have any sources on how modifications at 3. position affect effects but it's widely known that compounds with some substitutent at this position are prone to cause more serotonin in synapses (be it via phosphorylating SERT or acting as a releaser).

I guess, 4-methylmethcathinone hit the right spot for some and that's why mephedrone was so popular (but its popularity also came from its legality and I guess that's even a more important factor here - teens with no access to amph/meth/coke could buy a real drug legally so the fact it was inferior didn't play such a big role).

Now, bk-MDMA and MDMA both differ in pharmacodynamics to straight stimulant amphetamines (including cathinones). They release DA, NA, and 5HT, they also act on a couple of receptors that make them entheogens (among others there's 5HT{2A} receptor activated by MDMA), and they cause a lot of hormones release.

So to recap it all, in terms of pharmacodynamics (as far as we know now, still little is actually known about this compound, subjective effects also add to conclusions a lot) mephedrone is much closer to plain amphetamine than MDMA (well, bk-MDMA and MDMA actions are different also because of different ratios, bk-MDMA is a weaker releaser of serotonin than MDMA, that's why some say it doesn't have that "magic" of MDMA).
 
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Now why would this be any better than para-methyl/ethyl-methamphetamine?

1) Less metabolically stable, the keto group would be wuickly converted into a hydroxy.
2) Still some BBB crossing issues even if far less than methcathinone.
3) Probably has a much higher serotonergic activity than mephedrone but still the unconvenient effects of most beta-ketos.

IMO this could turn out to be a riskier mephedrone analogue.

I wonder why da hell has no beta methoxy analogue ever appeared in the designer drug market.
 
Torabora said:
The peak with 133u is the ethylbenzoylcation showing that there was a ethylgroup on the ring so it is very likely that it was indeed 4-EMC the other peak at 103u also supports this thesis because of ethyl fragmentation and formation of the benzoylcation (so 3,4dmmc is also very unlikely)

What I cannot explain is the shoulder on the gc spectra, fragmentation results are very similar:

Im not a master at reading MS fragmentations so maybe I did a mistake? pls correct me if I got something wrong or if you have different interpretation for the data I obtained.
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A side reaction from one of the most common and cheapest ways to make mephedrone (that I know of) is the formation of the methylated beta-imine (from addition of methylamine to a 4-substituted alpha-bromo acetophenone). The name for the side-product in this case would be 2-(4-Ethylphenyl)-N-methyl-2-(methylimino)ethanamine. Parent fragment should be at 189, which shows up on your spectra. I think the peak at 146 is the (4-Ethylphenyl)(methylimino)methylium fragment, while the 160 peak refers to the 2-(4-Ethylphenyl)-2-(methylimino)ethylium fragment. The conjugated imine makes sense for discoloration of the compound, since it's probably fairly energetic. If this is the case, the shoulder seems a little large and you may have a lot of impurity present, I think the yields for this reaction are usually about 70% with a primary amine.

edit: First compound is wrong, forgot the alpha-methyl, but the other ones may yet be correct. Therefore, not sure what the 189 peak is
 

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4-methylmethamphetamine is reportedly very hard on the mind. It surfaced in Moscow a few years ago, where it was blamed on several users' suicides.

As for beta-methoxy amphetamines, idk. The closest report I have found is BOB (beta-methoxy 2cb), from PiHKAL: "For whatever reason, this compound left me in a sociopathic snit. All in all, pretty negative."
 
@nuke yes I think you are right that this could be a impurity I think the shoulder could maybe come from a reaction taking place in the injector (cant remeber on what temp it was set but 200°C+ for sure) because such a large ammount of impurities would be very high for something sold as a RC but yes who knows would be very scary though.
 
I know what and where this compound has. It's actually not that surprising for me it doesn't give any concrete speedy effects, 4-MEC should substitute for mephedrone better as it still has only methyl group at para position on phenyl ring and ethyl on amine. But I may be wrong, all these subjective opinions of meph-heads are really subjective if they could even find some similarity to MDMA and cocaine in mephedrone which is obviously total bullshit. I'm not into stimulants but I like MDMA and I did cocaine in the past. Nothing in this crazy series of substituted cathinones is ever going to be like a combo of MDMA and cocaine.

Anyway, whatever effects 4-EMC has on you, I wouldn't mix it either with ephedrine or methamphetamine (well, if it's so worthless, then why not methamphetamine alone logically? still it's not my advice as methamphetamine is a damned brainwasher).
 
BTW: Christ, I can't really translate "morishness" into my language in one word... It means 'making urge to take more', right (more or less, you know what I mean, you want more after you're done)? I checked a lot of dictionaries and there is no entry for morishness. Where is it from? British, American, Canadian?[/QUOTE]

You cant find morishness because it not a real word.
 
adder said:
I know what and where this compound has. It's actually not that surprising for me it doesn't give any concrete speedy effects, 4-MEC should substitute for mephedrone better as it still has only methyl group at para position on phenyl ring and ethyl on amine. But I may be wrong, all these subjective opinions of meph-heads are really subjective if they could even find some similarity to MDMA and cocaine in mephedrone which is obviously total bullshit. I'm not into stimulants but I like MDMA and I did cocaine in the past. Nothing in this crazy series of substituted cathinones is ever going to be like a combo of MDMA and cocaine.

Anyway, whatever effects 4-EMC has on you, I wouldn't mix it either with ephedrine or methamphetamine (well, if it's so worthless, then why not methamphetamine alone logically? still it's not my advice as methamphetamine is a damned brainwasher).
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Have you tried Mephedrone before or you speaking from a strictly scientific stand point? Because i have done about 4 grams of Mephedrone in the past month and maybe its not "LIKE" MDMA and cocaine but the high from Meph definitely has some similaritys to those 2 drugs.
 
lostinshell said:
absolutely not, 4-emc is shit in my opinion..
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I wasn't aware that 4-ethylmethcathinone was on the market. 4-methylethcathinone is not the same drug. 4-EMC has more promise than 4-MMC for sure IMO and I have a feeling would be much better than 4-MEC and maybe 4-MMC itself - and less cardiotoxic at the same time.
 
adder said:
I'm not into stimulants but I like MDMA and I did cocaine in the past. Nothing in this crazy series of substituted cathinones is ever going to be like a combo of MDMA and cocaine.

.
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have you tried mephedrone? if not then how can you be so sure what it felt like (or doesn't to be exact)

mephedrone had its own feel but it was a little bit like the love of mdma and a little bit like the rush of coke and the horniness. it was a bizarre feeling and the most addictive stimulant i have ever tried and i was hooked on speed and have done lots of coke.

none of these meph analogues will touch it to be fair, in the same way that mdea is nothing compared to mdma. it was a rare example of a drug where all the effects it had leant towards an extreme euphoria and very satisfying high. not easiloy replicated, the fact it was so good was fluke as the related cathinones (methylone,ethcathinone,buphedrone,flephedrone) are not all that great in my experience though i never tried methcathinone:\
 
wrxya33 said:
BTW: Christ, I can't really translate "morishness" into my language in one word... It means 'making urge to take more', right (more or less, you know what I mean, you want more after you're done)? I checked a lot of dictionaries and there is no entry for morishness. Where is it from? British, American, Canadian?
Click to expand...

You cant find morishness because it not a real word.[/QUOTE]

moreish is a term for addictive
 
pofacedhoe said:
have you tried mephedrone? if not then how can you be so sure what it felt like (or doesn't to be exact)
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Yes, I have. That's why I know how it felt for me. It didn't feel like MDMA, it didn't feel like cocaine, finally it didn't feel like a combo of MDMA and cocaine. I would keep my mouth shut about its effects and just stick to "it took its toll" talk if I hadn't taken it. From all 4-substituted cathinones I took mephedrone and flephedrone. Look how I don't comment on 4-ethyl-N-methylcathinone or N-ethyl-4-methylcathinone beside reminding the fact all these drugs have never been studied in human.

I believe in science so without any proof I can't say "I know" but having experienced some subjective effects and having read reports on it, I can say "I think it's true that...".

Why was mephedrone a success? Well, firstly it was legal, secondly (it also augments "firstly") it acted similarly to other cathinones (with a small difference). When amphetamine blocks DAT, NAT, and SERT by phosphorylation, it does at some ratios, when amphetamine acts as a releaser of DA, NA, and 5-HT, it does it at some ratios. Now, amphetamine acts in such a way that serotonin effects play a very small role in general experience. Mephedrone has different ratios for both transporters blocking and releasing capabilities. And to cut this neuroscience "lecture" short, mephedrone relies on serotonin much more than amphetamine or amphetamine. That's why some people who never took MDMA or cocaine (or took some dirty pills with no MDMA but some piperazines and snorted some 10% cocaine), compare it to MDMA, cocaine or both. But this is bullshit neuropharmacologically.

I accept the fact mephedrone is addictive to some people just like I accept amphetamine is addictive to some people (for me it isn't, I'm simply not into stims). By "I accept" I mean I understand. But I never accepted the fact that 16-year old kids could go and buy it just like that exactly because I understand it's no better than (meth)amphetamine in terms of addiction. A drug no different in this aspect to amph was legally sold, that's unacceptable. But just as banning other psychoactive substances that are good brainwashers, banning mephedrone made it go underground. It limited kids' access to this drug so they started buying those "boosters/afterburners" (different translations from Polish I've seen) containing BZP, TFMPP and some other piperazines. Those vendors couldn't use mephedrone in "boosters" anymore so they had to make up for possible losses so they started putting more piperazines into those "boosters" and anyone could buy them at "funshops" that sometimes were on the main street of the city. "Boosters" god banned eventually as well but they also went underground, they're worse than plain amphetamine and those little colorful packs cost much more than plain amphetamine and people buy it - I don't understand it but it's not a must for me, I don't have to understand it.

Now why am I writing about all of this? Seems like it doesn't have any connection with other cathinone analogs, right? Well, it does. If drugs like 4-EMC or 4-MEC start to be available like mephedrone (and I don't care if they're "nowhere near mephedrone", for me mephedrone was nowhere near anything - who cares?), these mephedrone substitutes are going to take their toll as well. From all available stimulants on this planet people choose to buy such shit at ridiculous prices. This world has gone really crazy.
 
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