Interesting to read about wars, rc culture and psychotherapy. I can be one of whatever guys but back to this thread. Today I took 35mg after work. My stomach was quite empty and I decided not to eat for better 4cmc kick. It took about 1 hour to come up, I lost totally my appetite and got a good load of energized focus. Played some computer games and I played a lot better than sober. But this feeling is not interesting and next time I choose something else for spending my free time. I don't wanna go to 50+mg spots, call me a dosing pussy but my dose upping is done. Pasht take over from here... This is a Bluelight forum, a forum for things like that. So people can read about new(unknown) and known drug effects. Or am I getting it all wrong because Im a rookie here ? Anyway Im holding 4cmc for times when I have to be alert and awake.
RCs 4-CMC "Clephedrone"
- Thread starter sweatloaf13
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Shamanism
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I get where adder is coming from, although I have no where near his experience in pharmacology, nor is there much known about this material and for instance brephedrone, they have a similar structure as their neurotoxic amphetamine relatives. They might not be neurotoxic due do being reuptake inhibitors, but there is no way to be sure. To release such RC's and other dangerous compounds like butyrfentanyl to make a few bucks is shady at best. Some of these chemists may know what they are doing but couldn't care less.
I have tried a lot of RC's without much problems, I don't binge on them or use them in a way that lends itself to such use like smoking or IV. Also I research first and don't use the ones that tend to result in trouble like: opiods, mdpv/a-pvp, synthetic canabinoids or other potentially toxic ones like these who IMO especially when they are fun are not worth the risk because of the large enough likelyhood that they are neurotoxic.
If you are looking to be alert get a dexamphetamine script or an other funtional stim, this is not one
If you want to risk some of your brain capacity for science or the RC community, that is very noble. Yes, please be sure to inform us.
For more info you could also check https://www.flashback.org/t2375125 I use google translate, it seems they are chugging it in doses of 100-300mg which is another reason I decided not to try it as they are going through grams of this stuff as it isn't very potent.
I have tried a lot of RC's without much problems, I don't binge on them or use them in a way that lends itself to such use like smoking or IV. Also I research first and don't use the ones that tend to result in trouble like: opiods, mdpv/a-pvp, synthetic canabinoids or other potentially toxic ones like these who IMO especially when they are fun are not worth the risk because of the large enough likelyhood that they are neurotoxic.
If you are looking to be alert get a dexamphetamine script or an other funtional stim, this is not one
If you want to risk some of your brain capacity for science or the RC community, that is very noble. Yes, please be sure to inform us.
For more info you could also check https://www.flashback.org/t2375125 I use google translate, it seems they are chugging it in doses of 100-300mg which is another reason I decided not to try it as they are going through grams of this stuff as it isn't very potent.
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As a matter of a fact I noticed today that im dumber than usual after 3 day trials. Example I moved a 'item' to other place and I went away for a few minutes. I returned and wondered, who took my box. I nearly asked my workmate who for sure saw me moving away that box earlier. That would be so idiotic akward question, but luckily I remembered last second... :D And bunch of little mistakes too. May be 4cmc, may be just a stress, or lack of sleep.
adder
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Cathinones aren't purely reuptake inhibitors. While they are more of reuptake inhibitors than their corresponding amphetamine analogues, they are also potent as releasers if they're not too bulky. Mephedrone is potent at releasing both serotonin and dopamine. There is already one research showing that it is neurotoxic (here). I'm not experienced enough to judge their technique though and such stuff matters. It doesn't seem to be the same neurotoxicity that is behind almost all 4-haloamphetamines, which causes irreversible damage to serotonin neurons. 4-methylamphetamine on the other hand doesn't cause depletion of serotonin according to this study. I think there's enough proof now to say that it's not just one factor that makes a compound neurotoxic.
The reason why you feel worn off and/or "stupid" a day after heavy use of mephedrone is because you flushed your serotonin (and dopamine too) with it. Your body can't produce it in enough amounts so quickly. Moreover, the impact on serotonin production and serotonin transporters seems to be much longer-lasting than the high, so you can feel terrible for a week or two if you abuse mephedrone for a few days, and if you abuse it for weeks, you can suffer for months. It doesn't have to be permanent damage, but it's still neurotoxicity. And if mephedrone is neurotoxic, then you can bet that clephedrone and brephedrone are also neurotoxic in some way. They may not have the same releasing ability as their amphetamine analogues and they should be short-lasting, so the risk may be lower, but you can't dismiss it at the moment. Clephedrone and brephedrone seem to be calmer than mephedrone, so I guess they more selectively impact serotonin, but I think they also affect it more strongly and it's not a good sign.
The reason why you feel worn off and/or "stupid" a day after heavy use of mephedrone is because you flushed your serotonin (and dopamine too) with it. Your body can't produce it in enough amounts so quickly. Moreover, the impact on serotonin production and serotonin transporters seems to be much longer-lasting than the high, so you can feel terrible for a week or two if you abuse mephedrone for a few days, and if you abuse it for weeks, you can suffer for months. It doesn't have to be permanent damage, but it's still neurotoxicity. And if mephedrone is neurotoxic, then you can bet that clephedrone and brephedrone are also neurotoxic in some way. They may not have the same releasing ability as their amphetamine analogues and they should be short-lasting, so the risk may be lower, but you can't dismiss it at the moment. Clephedrone and brephedrone seem to be calmer than mephedrone, so I guess they more selectively impact serotonin, but I think they also affect it more strongly and it's not a good sign.
Lately i've got the opportunity to, shall we say, binge on little over a gram of clephedrone done in little over 24 hours. In my opinion, the substance provides weaker rush than 3-mmc but is surely sharper stimulating than 4-bmc, all in all a curious cross between the two. Comedown seems subjectively also more mellow than 3-mmc. As for the dosing, especially watch out for heroic (e.g. 250 mg at once) doses and compulsive redosing, as well as mixing with other serotoninergic drugs, at one moment it have caused intense tremor, bruxism and nearly blackout (were it symptoms of serotonin syndrome? these have occured to me first time in life in such intensity). At first nothing have announced it, but over the course of hours I have redosed and redosed, throwing in some MDPPP and MDPH, and BAM! there it hit me, I have collapsed to the ground, my right side of jaw twitched so strongly I thought it would snap, but luckily it lasted only a few moments, jaw-dropping as it were.
To sum the substance up - comparing with 3-mmc, it has weaker onset, euphoria than metaphedrone and shorter duration, but in contrast to brephedrone - more pronounced stimulation while very similar serotoninergic elation is to be felt but less intense. It seems to me a very functional, stimulating euphoriant / empathogen, it certainly lowers inhibitions, making the behaviour more sociable, yet in reasonable and effective doses (I would say 150 mg for experienced ketone user, preferably via insufflation) the effects are more manaegable than 3-mmc. I have tested pink, crystal batch, lightly smelling of cherries/fruits.
To sum the substance up - comparing with 3-mmc, it has weaker onset, euphoria than metaphedrone and shorter duration, but in contrast to brephedrone - more pronounced stimulation while very similar serotoninergic elation is to be felt but less intense. It seems to me a very functional, stimulating euphoriant / empathogen, it certainly lowers inhibitions, making the behaviour more sociable, yet in reasonable and effective doses (I would say 150 mg for experienced ketone user, preferably via insufflation) the effects are more manaegable than 3-mmc. I have tested pink, crystal batch, lightly smelling of cherries/fruits.
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psynce of sound
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I managed to obtain a sample of this. I find it very pleasurable on it's own. Little in stimulating effects but it has empathogenic qualities. I personally am yet to notice any damage from using it. It will have been a year around summer since trying it.
cousinskeeter
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Nice little info write up Pasht, thanks! Of all the chems you mentioned I have only done 3mmc, so a lot of your post I just had to kinda of guess or base it off of what other people have said as well.
Interesting you brought up the possibility of it being a functional stim. I find all the cathinones to be just the opposite, very foggy headed, can concentrate but not compute what you're concentrating on.
May I ask, did you get a clear head high (or foggy) compared to something like amphetamine, or maybe a halogenated amphetamine you've tried?
I'll admit I haven't looked too deep into para-halogenated cathinones, but do you worry at all it might end up being a bit worse on the brain than most other RCs? I hear a lot of people are steering clear of those.
Thanks!
Interesting you brought up the possibility of it being a functional stim. I find all the cathinones to be just the opposite, very foggy headed, can concentrate but not compute what you're concentrating on.
May I ask, did you get a clear head high (or foggy) compared to something like amphetamine, or maybe a halogenated amphetamine you've tried?
I'll admit I haven't looked too deep into para-halogenated cathinones, but do you worry at all it might end up being a bit worse on the brain than most other RCs? I hear a lot of people are steering clear of those.
Thanks!
Solipsis
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Damage is not necessarily "noticed" by side-effects or hangovers! AFAIK haloamphetamines don't acutely feel bad but that says nothing about brain damage you are getting from that.
Don't gamble with halo cathinones. Even if the neurotoxicity is not proven yet, it seems really insane to bet your brain's health on it and even crazier that your odds arent even good.
bjznoviskey
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^^ Seconded. I got a gram of this as a sample when making a large order out of China, and have been looking at it for a few months. Been trying to convince myself to try it for some reason... glad I still haven't
psynce of sound
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Very true Solipsis and it is something I'm aware of. In the interest of data gathering I'm planning on trialing both the 4 and 3 position versions of this one last time. After that I shan't bother with the compounds again.
So any information or advice on how to go about bioassaying them in a professional and concise manner would be greatly appreciated.
I'm already aware of the potential risks in doing this so please refrain from commenting on those risks. Please keep it to advice and information.
It will be good to make detailed TR's.
Thanks in advance.
psynce of sound
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I intend to use them alone as if there turns out to be validity to the toxicity then adding other compounds will more than likely make things worse.
Hello all, as i've seen others say.. long time reader, first post.. feels like i alrdy know many of you.. anyway is there a way to pm? Also i've searched a great deal on laws n what have u.. but, its hard to find nething concrete. I vaguely get the cathinone ones, but guess they trip me up when i still see y'all ordering them.. cmc seems very interesting as ive seen a many a friend tangle with its big brothers. The Bathsalt epidemic of 2009, even lost a very talented friend chasing aparently a "30 minute ringer." Knowing the risks, and my own boundries let me just say to all, you can never be to safe..
The King of Beans
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OMG I've tried a lot of RC combos in my day, but 3-MMC + 4-CMC BLOWS THEM ALL OUT OF THE WATER
I've tried 4-FA + Methylone, 4-FA + 5-MAPB, 4-FA +3-FA, 4-EMC + 4-FA, 3-MMC + Methylone, etc, etc, etc. I've tried way too many to even think to mention here. I've pretty much tried everything. When I first tried the 4-FA + Methylone combo I loved it, it felt like MDMA to me but more speedier. But last time I tried it, it was way too hard on my heart. I'm sure NONE of these combos are good on your heart, but the bad effects I got ruined the experience.
Even so, even the best 4-fa + methylone experience does not compare to a 3-MMC + 4-CMC.
Someone mentioned somewhere that they wondered if this combo would compare to 4-MMC. And I have never tried 4-MMC but from what I've heard about it, this combo is probably the way to reproduce the experience...But STRONGER. I say stronger because the reports I've read about 4-MMC make it sound like it is short lasting and you must redose to continue to feel the effects.
When I did the 3-mmc + 4-cmc combo I did not need to redose. Well I redosed the 3-mmc once before I ever took the 4-cmc. I'll explain how I did it, so you will see how I got a BETTER THAN MDMA experience. I swear to god, this was better than any MDMA I've done since the 90's. Imagine TOP quality MDMA, the best you've ever had...and then you'll get an idea of what the
3-mmc/4-cmc combo is like.
Well so i started with maybe 75 mgs of 3-mmc and didn't feel much of anything so I redosed another 75 mgs, and now i'm feeling it. The normal 3-mmc experience. Fun, but nothing compared to MDMA. So, now about 30 mins after last redose
(about 1 hour into the whole experience) I decide to take some 4-CMC. I had never tried 4-CMC before, so this was my first time ever trying it, so I cannot say how it is on it's own.
I eyeballed the 4-CMC I would estimate I took around 150 mg or less.
Within a few minutes, I was rolling full on balls. The hardest I've rolled in so many years. NO RC on it's own could ever come close to what this combo did for me. Infact NO COMBO can come close. I was previously loving the 4-FA + 5-MAPB combo which felt a LOT like strong MDMA. But this 4-CMC + 3-MMC combo is just way better. THis is a true party combo for sure. Do NOT do this around anywhere like work, etc. Because everyone will know you're fucked up.
This combo makes the eyes roll in the back of your head big time.
Been a long time. So I thought i would report on this, as I haven't seen too many reports about it. But this is it, this is the way to recreate/surpass MDMA in nearly every aspect. And the way to recreate or surpass 4-MMC
I've tried 4-FA + Methylone, 4-FA + 5-MAPB, 4-FA +3-FA, 4-EMC + 4-FA, 3-MMC + Methylone, etc, etc, etc. I've tried way too many to even think to mention here. I've pretty much tried everything. When I first tried the 4-FA + Methylone combo I loved it, it felt like MDMA to me but more speedier. But last time I tried it, it was way too hard on my heart. I'm sure NONE of these combos are good on your heart, but the bad effects I got ruined the experience.
Even so, even the best 4-fa + methylone experience does not compare to a 3-MMC + 4-CMC.
Someone mentioned somewhere that they wondered if this combo would compare to 4-MMC. And I have never tried 4-MMC but from what I've heard about it, this combo is probably the way to reproduce the experience...But STRONGER. I say stronger because the reports I've read about 4-MMC make it sound like it is short lasting and you must redose to continue to feel the effects.
When I did the 3-mmc + 4-cmc combo I did not need to redose. Well I redosed the 3-mmc once before I ever took the 4-cmc. I'll explain how I did it, so you will see how I got a BETTER THAN MDMA experience. I swear to god, this was better than any MDMA I've done since the 90's. Imagine TOP quality MDMA, the best you've ever had...and then you'll get an idea of what the
3-mmc/4-cmc combo is like.
Well so i started with maybe 75 mgs of 3-mmc and didn't feel much of anything so I redosed another 75 mgs, and now i'm feeling it. The normal 3-mmc experience. Fun, but nothing compared to MDMA. So, now about 30 mins after last redose
(about 1 hour into the whole experience) I decide to take some 4-CMC. I had never tried 4-CMC before, so this was my first time ever trying it, so I cannot say how it is on it's own.
I eyeballed the 4-CMC I would estimate I took around 150 mg or less.
Within a few minutes, I was rolling full on balls. The hardest I've rolled in so many years. NO RC on it's own could ever come close to what this combo did for me. Infact NO COMBO can come close. I was previously loving the 4-FA + 5-MAPB combo which felt a LOT like strong MDMA. But this 4-CMC + 3-MMC combo is just way better. THis is a true party combo for sure. Do NOT do this around anywhere like work, etc. Because everyone will know you're fucked up.
This combo makes the eyes roll in the back of your head big time.
Been a long time. So I thought i would report on this, as I haven't seen too many reports about it. But this is it, this is the way to recreate/surpass MDMA in nearly every aspect. And the way to recreate or surpass 4-MMC
WeirdScience
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So have you compared against the 4-cmc on it's own? I experiment with the 4-cmc pretty actively and find it very rewarding but never in a combination, nor have I ever tried the 3mmc due to its unimpressive reports. I love the 4cmc, it's euphoric, relaxing, pleasurable. And with 5htp supplements you can restore your serotonin levels faster to enjoy again.
This is the best RC I've found so far that resembles mdma.
It has a smooth come down. An hour or two later and you can still eat and goto sleep. If you have any symptoms the next day it's only going to be drowsiness from staying up too late doing more n more. Bc it feels great and you WILL want more. Your system does build up a tolerance to it if used regularly and when you re-dose through the night the effectiveness gets weaker as your body gets depleted of serotonin.
Sexual stimulation is amazing, that's what does it for most testers. Having a sexual partner creates a totally more pleasing experience.
I have tested this in high doses when system gets depleted and still had no problems.
Usual dosing commences via intravenous starting at 150mg.
Then 200mg....250mg....300mg....
but that's with a regular tolerance. By then the male users euphoric effects are weak and only getting an upper like effect while the female users effects are weakened but still present. In my research, females have a higher reaction experience and longer enjoyment of the stimulate.
In summary, my 2 years of research on 4-cmc has shown safe results but could also be addictive. The good thing there is once your system is depleted you have to have a break from it so your system can "recharge" for a better experience. Everyone is different so as always exercise caution. Some testers have extremely sensitive systems and 100 mg would send them past the moon and may need some coaching though the initial rush.
Feel free to ask me anything about my studies. I'm always willing to help
This is the best RC I've found so far that resembles mdma.
It has a smooth come down. An hour or two later and you can still eat and goto sleep. If you have any symptoms the next day it's only going to be drowsiness from staying up too late doing more n more. Bc it feels great and you WILL want more. Your system does build up a tolerance to it if used regularly and when you re-dose through the night the effectiveness gets weaker as your body gets depleted of serotonin.
Sexual stimulation is amazing, that's what does it for most testers. Having a sexual partner creates a totally more pleasing experience.
I have tested this in high doses when system gets depleted and still had no problems.
Usual dosing commences via intravenous starting at 150mg.
Then 200mg....250mg....300mg....
but that's with a regular tolerance. By then the male users euphoric effects are weak and only getting an upper like effect while the female users effects are weakened but still present. In my research, females have a higher reaction experience and longer enjoyment of the stimulate.
In summary, my 2 years of research on 4-cmc has shown safe results but could also be addictive. The good thing there is once your system is depleted you have to have a break from it so your system can "recharge" for a better experience. Everyone is different so as always exercise caution. Some testers have extremely sensitive systems and 100 mg would send them past the moon and may need some coaching though the initial rush.
Feel free to ask me anything about my studies. I'm always willing to help
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The King of Beans
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Yes I've tried 4-CMC on it's own....It's weak. Mixing with 3-MMC produces a high that is 20x as strong. There really is no comparison. Also 4-CMC is a bit psychedelic, which I don't like. The 3-MMC puts a nice synergy with that psychedelic with the speediness of 3-mmc. I don't like psychedelics without the speediness to even them out. Like shrooms (psilocybin) are TERRIBLE. They just make me tired and tripped out and depressed. Before I ever did MDMA though, I LOVED shrooms. Changed man. lol
I would never do 4-CMC on its own again. But to each their own.
EDIT- To poster above, you are missing out on the 3-mmc. You shouldn't believe everthing you read. 3-MMC is way better than 4-CMC and my first time doing it, it felt identical to MDMA, I could not distinguish the two. Whoever wrote a bad report on 3-MMC was either really really ate up, or got a really bad batch.
I've only had 1 bad batch of 3-mmc, so if you have a good vendor, you're most liklely missing out. Also 4-CMC could be neuro toxic but like you said every one is different. I would not recommend anyone do any of this stuff honestly but just saying the 3-mmc is better than 4-cmc lol
I would never do 4-CMC on its own again. But to each their own.
EDIT- To poster above, you are missing out on the 3-mmc. You shouldn't believe everthing you read. 3-MMC is way better than 4-CMC and my first time doing it, it felt identical to MDMA, I could not distinguish the two. Whoever wrote a bad report on 3-MMC was either really really ate up, or got a really bad batch.
I've only had 1 bad batch of 3-mmc, so if you have a good vendor, you're most liklely missing out. Also 4-CMC could be neuro toxic but like you said every one is different. I would not recommend anyone do any of this stuff honestly but just saying the 3-mmc is better than 4-cmc lol
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LiveALittle
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I tried 4-CMC an hour ago, it was my first time trying it and I have quite a tolerance for nearly all stims. However, I LOVE 4-CMC. The first few seconds after insufflation there was mild form of hallucination.. everything looked and sounded just weird. Everything in the room looked different than before. Extreeeme physical euphoria for the first 10 minutes that was intense enough to make me wonder if I had overdone it and was about to die haha. After those few minutes though, I suddenly got very mentally euphoric, convincing myself I was not Bout to die and just having a hell of a trip.
All in all I absolutely loved it, only thing is I bought it thinking it would be a 100% stimulant. The hallucinations are not severe at all, I was still coherent and such, but I was definitely seeing and hearing thing which I knew weren't there haha.
TL;DR This guinnea pig likes and recommends 4-cmc to anybody who feel like they need "MDMA-light". If you actually want to be tripping and tweaking on another level, it's probably more worth your money if you just go for M
All in all I absolutely loved it, only thing is I bought it thinking it would be a 100% stimulant. The hallucinations are not severe at all, I was still coherent and such, but I was definitely seeing and hearing thing which I knew weren't there haha.
TL;DR This guinnea pig likes and recommends 4-cmc to anybody who feel like they need "MDMA-light". If you actually want to be tripping and tweaking on another level, it's probably more worth your money if you just go for M
psy997
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Anyone ever feel like these kinds of posts are just vendors / others whom sales may benefit writing fake experience reports?