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Tryptamines 4 aco met solution going black

Keeloverandfly

Keeloverandfly

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 22, 2022
Messages
174
Hi all, thanks for the neat forum that has supplied me with info for quite some time.

I have a question about a solution of 4 aco met and vodka that I foolishly made—foolish because I hadn’t realized it can go off upon adding liquid (along with other 4-tryptas, as I read here on the forum). I made it 5 months ago. Then after 1-2 months it had gone grayish but still worked wonders. Now there is ~60 mg left in the vial, and it has become almost opaque. I still have enough powder left to get my rocks off (125+ mg) without resorting to trying this solution BUT I can’t imagine throwing away such a delightful molecule if it is indeed still good. Is it a bad idea to try my now blackened vodka solution? What are the risks associated with ingesting this? No effect? Getting sick?
 
I had a similar incident. I put some 4ho-mipt hcl into a vial which was still a bit wet (water only). The powder went grayish brown after a day or two and stayed that way. Potency wasn’t affected. my vendor stated that he wanted to get the fumarate instead from now on because it is supposed to be more stable. I don’t know anything about the product that results from adding 4 substituted tryptamines to water.
 
not sure about fumarates, but hcl triptamines degrades incredibly fast in solution. Dont do that if you are not going to consume during that day
 
So mine is fumarate, not hcl (different things, right?).

And… dosed 30mg of the opaque solution last night. Still works merry little wonders! It does seem less strong than before however, as visually it was stronger at 20mg when the solution was new. But maybe I am imagining that…
 
Thank you for that enlightening article! I wonder if my compound did in fact change to something else but kept its potency…. I kinda want to let it sit for another few months and try it then, see what happens.
 
I had some 4-aco-det that degraded into that state shown in the pics that I had for like 8-9 years. Still worked surprisingly well when plugged. Plugging 25mg of 4aco-det+25mgs of mxe gave me an intense dream like vision quest comparable to what I heard about ayahuasca trips.
I've done that combo plenty of times along with nn-dmt in the past when that batch was allot less degraded and it was just as intense if not more when I took the 2 together when it was degraded. Think the fact that it degraded into multiple different compounds had something to do with it.
 
Keeloverandfly said:
So mine is fumarate, not hcl (different things, right?).
Click to expand...

yeah they're different, but the same drug... they're just different salts, in other words, a different acid is binded to the freebase molecule. An HCL salt is a hydrochloric acid molecule bound to it, and a fumarate salt is a fumaric acid molecule bound to it. Fumarate salts are less potent by weight than HCL salts of drugs, because fumaric acid is a heavier molecule. However, for whatever reason, fumarate salts of tryptamines are far more stable than HCL salts of tryptamines, so that is why they are commonly what is commercially available, even though the HCL form is a bit more potent. Tryptamines are rather unstable compounds (the freebases are crystalline solids, but degrade quite rapidly... the HCL salts also degrade but not as quickly as the freebases). Phenethylamines, on the other hand, are extremely stable as HCL salts, which is why they are almost always found in HCL form (incidentally, phenethylamines generally are volatile oils in freebase form).

Glad it still works, you're braver than I, I think I would have tossed it if it was that black/opaque. I have heard a number of anecdotal reports of blackened 4-sub tryptamines still working. I once had a batch of AMT HCL that was dark brown... it still worked, though was a bit weaker.
 
Xorkoth said:
yeah they're different, but the same drug... they're just different salts, in other words, a different acid is binded to the freebase molecule. An HCL salt is a hydrochloric acid molecule bound to it, and a fumarate salt is a fumaric acid molecule bound to it. Fumarate salts are less potent by weight than HCL salts of drugs, because fumaric acid is a heavier molecule. However, for whatever reason, fumarate salts of tryptamines are far more stable than HCL salts of tryptamines, so that is why they are commonly what is commercially available, even though the HCL form is a bit more potent. Tryptamines are rather unstable compounds (the freebases are crystalline solids, but degrade quite rapidly... the HCL salts also degrade but not as quickly as the freebases). Phenethylamines, on the other hand, are extremely stable as HCL salts, which is why they are almost always found in HCL form (incidentally, phenethylamines generally are volatile oils in freebase form).

Glad it still works, you're braver than I, I think I would have tossed it if it was that black/opaque. I have heard a number of anecdotal reports of blackened 4-sub tryptamines still working. I once had a batch of AMT HCL that was dark brown... it still worked, though was a bit weaker.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clearing that up!

Shit, if Xorkoth wouldn’t do it, maybe I shouldn’t do it… Maybe I won’t experiment with letting it degrade further then. Btw are you the same Xorkoth whose trip reports I’ve read on Erowid?
 
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