• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

4-AcO-DMT stability, other variations of DMT?

Nice idea, but where do you suspect a psychedelic dose?
I would rate your mentioned effects maybe to 5-10 mg insuffl. DMT. Extrapolation to a real psychedelic dose would maybe require a 5 times higher dose. This would mean about 250 mg of TMT. That´s a lot of stuff!!
 
^^

Well 60mg DMT would mostly give me a mildish nice warmy 'buzz', 43mg the same, myself with DMT orally (with an maoi) i'd have to take the dose to at least 100mg, more like.. 150mg to 'get off' good :).

Well, that would be an excellent discovery if TMT was really like oral DMT!

Of course if that was the case, i'd really want to obtain some somehow :). - even if its not exactly like DMT but retains that shroomy/dmt feeling :).

Has he tried any way but orally? Snorted, or IMed?
 
It was theorized by most people that these 4-acetoxy-tryptamines would saponify to the 4-hydroxy analog in the body, just as psilocybin (4-phosphoryloxy-DMT) is believed to convert to psilocin (4-hydroxy-DMT) in vivo. Described effects are certainly about the same. However, it seems that this may not be entirely true. According to Alexander Shulgin, "In the case of psilocybin to psilocin, this saponification is essential for activity, as the phosphate ester is far too polar to get across the blood-brain barrier. But this problem need not exist with the acetate ester. I have explored the 4-hydroxy-DET but I am more familiar with the 4-hydroxy-DIPT. It is of a rather rapid onset implying possible absorption directly from the stomach. However, in a group study with the corresponding ester 4-AcO-DIPT, we felt that it had an even faster onset and perhaps a increased potency. This would suggest that it might be considered an active drug in its own right rather than simply a precursor to the active drug 4-HO-DIPT."
Click to expand...

from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_acetoxy_det/4_acetoxy_det_article1.shtml

Makes me wonder how much different (if anything noticeable) 4-AcO-DMT woudl be from psilocin?
 
This article mentions 5-AcO-DMT as being active, and suggests it has a much easier time crossing the BBB, thus probably is very different in nature compared to bufotenine

yaesutom said:
from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_acetoxy_det/4_acetoxy_det_article1.shtml

Makes me wonder how much different (if anything noticeable) 4-AcO-DMT woudl be from psilocin?
Click to expand...

Based on my experiences with 4-AcO-DET, 4-Ho-DET, 4-AcO-MiPT, and 4-Ho-MiPT, I'd say there is a fair difference. The main thing I have noted is (beyond dosage differences) the AcOs tend to take longer to manefest. There seem to be other subtle differences in the nature of the 4-AcO vs 4-Ho trips as well, though words to describe such fine details are difficult to come by. I still have yet to try 4-AcO-DiPT, but from all reports I read, it seems to lack much of the deep psychedelic properties I get with iprocin. The one consistant thing I read about 4-AcO-DiPT is how good it feels. Iprocin feels pretty damn good too, but it is also deeply/profoundly entheogenic and (if you will), mystical or 'spiritual' for a good many people. Or at least moreso that 4-AcO-DiPT, based on the available literature. The mystical/spiritual theme seems to be largely absent from most of the 4-AcO-DiPT reports.
 
Last edited:
Variations of DMT

Glennon found that homo-DMT (HDMT), a molecule DMT with a straight 3-C chain instead of the 2-C chain is nearly equipotent to DMT. Can anybody explain this? Might it be orally active? Elsewhere is described that it produces strong hyperthermia in rabbits. Should this hint prevent us to try it?

Here is an other interesting article from Kalir and Szara. They made N,N,alpha-TMT and compare it to AMT and DMT in its action in mice.

Attaching the PDF files did not work, so here are the references:
Glennon's article with HDMT: J.Med.Chem. 1979, 22,4 pp.428
N,N,alpha TMT: J.Med.Chem. 1966, 9, pp.341
 
Last edited:
u can just upload the files on to a server and post links. Interesting niche compounds there. If they were first made that long ago I wonder why they never really caught on.
 
You want to download a file. Please scroll down to choose FREE or PREMIUM-download.
Click here to upload files easily for free!
 
This article mentions 5-AcO-DMT as being active, and suggests it has a much easier time crossing the BBB, thus probably is very different in nature compared to bufotenine
Click to expand...

For some reason its hard to read the link in my browser, but it also mentions 4-MeO-DMT too. I don't really know what the numbers mean but it had psilocin on there too - is 4-MeO-DMT active? :)

-- Was talking to someone from another forum and TMT came up in the conversation, this person tried it a few times, here's one bit of info he gave me,

135 mg TMT orally --

Some notes: Peak reached in about 70 min. very DMT ish most relaxing, brilliant colours and OEV’s followed by a slow drop. Very sharp peak.
After 3 h again able to interact normally with others and think clear. 8 hours into it and still light headedness and slight dizziness. I would not choose to drive a car in this status.

Very smooth, and nonetheless intense. - good stuff, will not be dissapointed! Slight after effects noticeable still at hour 10.
Click to expand...

Apparently it can be made in good yield from AMT, interesting..

Now this made me wonder, I started this thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=232955 about tossing various tryptamines into mushroom substrate, if the fungi enzymes will take in AMT, maybe not only will 4-HO-AMT come out, but maybe some methylation would occur resulting in some 2,a-DMT and TMT.

Also, if TMT is active, i wonder about 5-MeO-TMT? :) Anyone guess if 5-MeO-TMT could be made somehow from 5-MeO-AMT? (if TMT can be made from AMT).
 
Yes, orally at about 25mg. Better off demethylkating it to 4-hydroxyDMT (psilocin) though
Click to expand...

Hmm.. what about legality? Safer than AcO? Ya know.. no possibility of it ever turning into psilocin :). But then I am curious as fuck how good it is, if its enough like psilocin - is that 25mg at the lower end of the scale though? .. cause that would suck.
 
Is this TMT base or the above mentioned oxalate salt?
If this is the oxalate, 135 mg would accord to 93 mg freebase. Comparing this dose to AMT and DMT, it is only a little bit lower in potency!
I wonder what dose it would be parenterally!
 
Ohh really?

Well isn't stuff like 4-AcO-MiPT about half the potency of psilocin anyway?

Wonder how easily 4-MeO-DMT could be made... cause if its good, and some of the RC vendors caught on.. i'd buy some! :)

I should post on a few different forums about 4-MeO-DMT in case by chance (like i found someone who tried that TMT also) just to see if i can find anyone who's tried some..

Oh, I kind of assumed the person who ate the TMT meant a salt version, i'm not sure which salt, but this person doesn't like AMT but seemed to love TMT.. said very worthwhile and more relaxing like DMT i guess (i hope by the lucky DMT gods of the universe somehow some would get into my DMT-freak hands someday to taste myself!)

Which made me wonder, well shit, I wonder if you can do the same sort of thing with 5-MeO-AMT (which seems to slide way more towards the "sucky side" in a lot of people's opinions) , turn it into -TMT and make it good? hehe.


** oh yeah, I saw that paper with the dimethyl-homo-tryptamine, I couldn't figure it out til I looked at it in chemdraw what it actually was.. just one extra carbon added before the N. Same potency of DMT, would that extra carbon make it orally active?
 
Last edited:
What paper on dimethylhomersexualDMT?

yaesutom said:
Ohh really?

Well isn't stuff like 4-AcO-MiPT about half the potency of psilocin anyway?

Wonder how easily 4-MeO-DMT could be made... cause if its good, and some of the RC vendors caught on.. i'd buy some! :)

I should post on a few different forums about 4-MeO-DMT in case by chance (like i found someone who tried that TMT also) just to see if i can find anyone who's tried some..

Oh, I kind of assumed the person who ate the TMT meant a salt version, i'm not sure which salt, but this person doesn't like AMT but seemed to love TMT.. said very worthwhile and more relaxing like DMT i guess (i hope by the lucky DMT gods of the universe somehow some would get into my DMT-freak hands someday to taste myself!)

Which made me wonder, well shit, I wonder if you can do the same sort of thing with 5-MeO-AMT (which seems to slide way more towards the "sucky side" in a lot of people's opinions) , turn it into -TMT and make it good? hehe.


** oh yeah, I saw that paper with the dimethyl-homo-tryptamine, I couldn't figure it out til I looked at it in chemdraw what it actually was.. just one extra carbon added before the N. Same potency of DMT, would that extra carbon make it orally active?
Click to expand...
 
fastandbulbous said:
4-Methoxy DMT is about half the potency of psilocin, but yes it will not decompose into psilocin & is a lot more stable. It's apparently a lot like psilocin in effects
Click to expand...


That's from a book about drug synthesis, with no supporting refs., so I don't think that activity can be taken as read. After MGS contacted me questioning the activity, I checked TIHKAL and found that Shulgin stated that 4-methoxy DET was inactive at 30mg orally.

Asked to choose who to believe, I'd side with Shulgin
 
What paper on dimethylhomersexualDMT?
Click to expand...
It's the paper from Glennon, that smyth put on the rapidshare.
http://rapidshare.de/files/8840887/GlennonHDMT.pdf.html
Click to expand...
HDMT means homoDMT and this means DMT with an unbranched 3-carbon chain.
Potency semms to be the same like DMT, but I have no idea about oral activity.
BTW:
Which made me wonder, well shit, I wonder if you can do the same sort of thing with 5-MeO-AMT (which seems to slide way more towards the "sucky side" in a lot of people's opinions) , turn it into -TMT and make it good? hehe.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that it would work in exactly the same way, and the 5-MeO-TMT should be about ten times more potent.
Someone should make and try it
 
Last edited:
table with data from Glennon's paper

Here is the table where the compounds are in comparison
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top