4-AcO-DMT, RC status and legality

[Sir Ron Pib]

4ACO-DMT is a RC?? Where on earth is that legal? That should be identical to 4OPO3/4HO-DMT in pretty much everyway right? In which case does 4ACO-DMT as a synthetic seem cleaner than mushroom? I was wondering if some of the slight mugginess and wave like nature of Shrooms was due to side products (4HO-NMT) and/or how organic material or infusions absorb; any ideas?

 

[Solipsis]

How is it not an RC, I live in The Netherlands and we have a ban-list called the Opium List and no analogue laws. There are virtually no "RCs" on it except for 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 and that is only because they were sold in 'smartshops' for years (and there weren't even any incidents). Mephedrone was also put on the list. I am not sure what other amendments were made.
Ohh I now see there is also DET, DOM, DOET (lol), MMDA, MDOH on it.
Apart from countries like USA, Australia, NZ and the UK among others, I think there are a lot of small countries where research chemicals are unregulated.

Here, there are ways to prevent escalation though. If there is ridiculous trading of large quantities of RC drugs going on, or anything considered a problem for public health for that matter, they prohibit it on account of the RC being an unregistered pharmaceutical. Something like that can always happen if they feel there is a need to put an end to stuff, but the authority supervising this admitted themselves that they will not act unless shit becomes really unacceptable so to speak.

Because it is unavoidable that some minute quantity of 4-AcO-DMT degrades to psilocin (which is illegal, possibly everywhere on earth), there might be legal issues. If you will really get into trouble depends on what happens that gets their attention.

Your question about mushrooms is unrelated to the topic but OK, I will answer now that I am typing anyway: I think that the way the alkaloids are absorbed matters for the pharmacokinetics, which is the speed at which drugs act over time. Slow absorption for example could create some mild acute tolerance that will make the effects less extreme.
On the other hand, compounds like 4-HO-NMT or baeocystin can be weak competitive MAO inhibitor purely for the reason that they are substrates. If your body is busy breaking them down there is less available to break down the active psilocin. I don't think it is known and proven if psilocybin passes the BBB and if it is active itself. Nor am I aware of conclusive evidence of breakdown of psilocybin to psilocin although it seems many agree that it would be very improbable that psilocybin resists esterase enzymes that facilitate this.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Since when did legality make a research chemical a research chemical?

How is it not an RC, I live in The Netherlands and we have a ban-list called the Opium List and no analogue laws. There are virtually no "RCs" on it except for 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 and that is only because they were sold in 'smartshops' for years (and there weren't even any incidents).

 

[Solipsis]

According to some interpretations research chemicals are often (but not always) 'designed' to circumvent the law. I know this is definitely not the reason why people like Shulgin and Nichols developed and investigated drugs, but nevertheless it is a reason for many to order these unscheduled and publicly available drugs instead of the compounds they were derived of. That is why we call them research chemicals: because of the pretense of scientific research under which they are ordered. So legality may not "make" a research chemical a research chemical, the two are still closely related.
That many others including myself are actually interested in the unique effects these compounds have to offer that differ from their parent compounds is besides the point here.

Despite the great similarity of some research chemical's effect or structural formula to classical parent compounds, I would disagree that this would make a compound NOT an RC.

 

[azzo]

How is it not an RC, I live in The Netherlands and we have a ban-list called the Opium List and no analogue laws. There are virtually no "RCs" on it except for 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 and that is only because they were sold in 'smartshops' for years (and there weren't even any incidents). Mephedrone was also put on the list. I am not sure what other amendments were made.
Ohh I now see there is also DET, DOM, DOET (lol), MMDA, MDOH on it.
Apart from countries like USA, Australia, NZ and the UK among others, I think there are a lot of small countries where research chemicals are unregulated.

I just checked and also in italy DOET is banned with DOB and DOM, LOL , i was making fun of usa laws about that but it seems here is nonsense too :D
Same for the others in your list, but our list is far longer, we have many more, at least we are not 'unlucky' like UK though, there they ban new substances so fast and often, here it takes time.

 

[scotty5591]

I find that 4-HO-MIPT was very much less visual and more of a strong body buss. OEV were very geometrically tuned. Shapes seemed to stick out. 4-HO-MET seemed to me, to be very visual and had more flow than 4-HO-MIPT. It was much more giddier and on the fun side. 4-HO-MIPT seemed to be more of an introspective trip. It also did not last near as long as 4-HO-MET. The trip from 4-HO-MIPT also seemed to come in strange waves. I'd feel sober one minute and tripping the next. As for 4-ACO-DMT, I have some on the way right now. I have yet to try this one but I am very eager. From what I hear, it hits you hard and is very "in-your-face."

Yet to try 4 ho met although 4 HO MIPT for me felt ALOT closer to magic mushrooms then 4 ACO DMT although ive yet to try higher doses of 4 ho mipt, still noticeably different though.

Hard to say which one i thought was better, the bodyload on 4 ho mipt i found very similar to magic mushrooms which i preferred to 4 aco dmt

The music enhancement is incredible on 4 ho mipt, something which i found 4 aco dmt lacked, colours also seem so much more saturated compared to aco dmt

 

[Solipsis]

I just checked and also in italy DOET is banned with DOB and DOM, LOL , i was making fun of usa laws about that but it seems here is nonsense too :D
Same for the others in your list, but our list is far longer, we have many more, at least we are not 'unlucky' like UK though, there they ban new substances so fast and often, here it takes time.

Yeah, what is it about UK that makes it one of if not the biggest RC country in the world? I don't really understand. Does it just appear that way?

Far too often legislature is made by people who don't seem to understand the field it pertains to, or so it seems - I mean why would you want to ban DOET? I hardly recall people using it and reporting on it whatsoever.

Anyway we are getting pretty far off topic and I'd love to move this part of the discussion elsewhere but I haven't the faintest where it would fit. Maybe I'll figure that out later.

 

[azzo]

Imo it just appear that way because there are really so many online vendors based in UK, if you make a search online at least half of the vendors you find in the first results are from there, even if they usually sell the same substances, and those are the 'most popular' ones i belive.
Or maybe people there are more open mind and brave than the rest of us Europeans, who knows :D

But well i still can't undestand why so many vendors are based there since the laws are far more restrictive than any other country in europe.
Anyway yes we are really off topic

 

[Morninggloryseed]

- I mean why would you want to ban DOET? I hardly recall people using it and reporting on it whatsoever.

I don't agree with the 'why' but the 'why' is because DOET appeared in a paper along with DOM written by Shulgin in 1968, and was part of the original 1970 CSA act. It was banned because the legislators were able to read of its existance...along with ibogaine, DET, and other substances no one was using outside of researchers.

 

[Solipsis]

Ah thanks for clearing that up MGS.

I split this discussion as you can see, now feel free to expand on these subjects.

 

[blazR]

Apart from countries like USA, Australia, NZ and the UK among others, I think there are a lot of small countries where research chemicals are unregulated.

Unfortunately we have an analogue law in Denmark making both tryptamines and phenethylamines illegal. + cathinones and propably all cannabinoids. IMO the only nice group they have forgotten is the arylcyclohexylamines besides ketamine and MXE

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

"Imo it just appear that way because there are really so many online vendors based in UK, if you make a search online at least half of the vendors you find in the first results are from there, even if they usually sell the same substances, and those are the 'most popular' ones i belive.
Or maybe people there are more open mind and brave than the rest of us Europeans, who knows

But well i still can't undestand why so many vendors are based there since the laws are far more restrictive than any other country in europe."

That was my thinking