RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[gymstud]

i switched vendor and tbis new stuff looks differnt firdt was a bit chalk like and clumpt this is sparkly and very fluid (not clumpy) anyone any imput

 

[Sprout]

any of you tried this with bk-2c-b ?

I have, though I struggle to think of much I didn't mix with BK-2CB, got wayyyy the too into it for a few months.
Timing is everything, 3-FPM may boast quite a smooth acute comedown (the next few days, less so), it is massively magnified on a psychedelic. Especially one with such a physical element as BK-2CB.

I'd personally save them for separate occasions, too much room for error.

 

[crOOk]

Thanks for your write-ups, crOOk.

Glad to hear I could be of use.

i can sit snort 20 g of mpa in a sitting if i felt like it fucking lightweight christ i wish i would not spend stupid amounts of money

got 3 g of this coming in the morning in Chrystal from only had the powder so far any one notice any difference

Do let us know. I have a feeling the powder might contain some very noxious impurities - and a lot of them! There's got to be a reason the "crystals" cost almost twice as much.



Btw I used another 600mg shot the other day and the paresthesia got worse again. Might be due to spending a long time in a more or less fixed posture though, who knows.

 

[BuzzCandy]

Generally when I use 3FPM I make sure I only parachute relatively low doses (30mg~) and I limit myself to taking no more than 4 in one day if I am attempting to function and get work done (I'm a writer, 3FPM really helps the pen get started rolling along the page. I come back the next day and edit with sober eyes). It still gives me a degree of stomach discomfort even at these low doses but for the most part I have very few side effects unless I go on a bender. I can confirm foolsgold and crOOk's reports that after 3 days there's a high risk of blacking out and amnesia; this past weekend I celebrated the end of my university classes with my coursemates and decided to let my hair down and have a good run at it (still with low dose hits) I was up for the following three days, drinking and floating around like a social animal and it was great. What isn't great is the amnesia, I have several blank spots of time where I can't recall what exactly I was doing; I remember following a crowd of classmates to a bar but have no idea how I ended up following them or where we went. The next thing I know I'm in someone's bedroom with my housemates doing coke. The following day I spent spaced out on the sofa playing Worms World Party because I couldn't get to sleep and wanted to hang on until nightfall to sleep at an appropriate hour.

That sleep didn't happen as I went out and got drunk and took more 3fpm, went to watch a sunrise with some friends, came back and played Worms all day until about 4pm where I straight up blacked out. My housemate's gf came downstairs and saw me, tried to talk to me because my eyes were open but I was totally unresponsive. Woke up about 9 hours later and finally sent myself to bed and slept for another 12 hours. The day after I felt an overwhelming lethargy and general malaise, not to mention the stomach upset.

It is waaaay too easy to binge on this stuff and is highly addictive. As it seems to just function as a releasing agent (I'm under the impression that amphetamine drugs work both as a releasing agent and reuptake inhibitor, whereas this only does the former) I would hypothesise that the potential for blacking out is likely caused by a complete depletion of norepinephrine after a long binge.

I am very curious as to why people are choosing to IV this stuff (especially with the risk of thrombosis- though I suppose that was learned after the fact tbf), as well as taking such large doses. Anytime I've taken a dose above 75mg I get jitters, temperature fluctuation and feel anxious and unable to focus on anything. There is euphoria but it isn't long lasting which leads to a compulsion to redose.

This can be a fun RC to try, I've found it very beneficial as a study aid when used in low amounts and I've had positive feedback from the people I've shared it with (Before I do share, I take great care to ensure their safety; I make sure they're as well informed as they can be, make sure there aren't medications they are on which could cause problems, low doses etc.) but no one reports downsides. The thing to remember is that EVERY drug has a downside, there will always be a point where the drug stops and the desired effect wears off and the consequences kick in- cause and effect.

It is good that foolsgold and crOOk have pointed this out for us because the delay for any kind of comedown from this substance is scary, it should not be taken as a sign that "oh this is great and no comedown so I can just keep nailing it" it should be taken as a sign that you should be very cautious with your use.

 

[LeeviON]

Could someone condense the currently known short and long-term effects of 3-FPM?

Edit, by long-term effects I mean side-effects only associated with continued use.

 

[crOOk]

I can tell you that I'm in some pretty fucking horrible pain which I attribute to my whopping 3F-PM doses. I'll try to write this up, but for now let's just say that I am convinced this stuff is neurotoxic as shit. Plenty of reasons why this hasn't become apparent to most people, but the amnesia should be another hint at the toxicity.

30mg doses should be fine (I injected over 500mg in single shots), but I would still recommend everyone to throw this stuff into the trash or stash it away until there is convincing data about it's safety. I ordered a whole lb for myself before I had even tried the stuff, but have now thrown all that away. With all that has happened to my body since I started using it, I couldn't even bring myself to give it to my worst enemy.

Oh and regarding your curiosity... 500mg injected quickly enough makes my blood feel as if it is on fire, the heat rising all the way up to my ears while I get hit with the sensation of breathing ice cold air. My heart starts pounding harder with every beat, everything around me becomes brightly lit, still, silent. I tend to become really calm for a few hours, the stimulation of 2-3 such doses will last for over a day after the final dose though.

Each and every time I did this the paresthesia in my arms (left>right) became worse. During these experiences I would quite litereally feel an occasional electrical shock, usually originating in places where there is some natural strain on large nerves, e.g. the sulcus n ulnaris. While a week off it seemed to bring on some recovery, the final excess has now extended the problem to my left leg where I feel a slight constant tingling and a numbness that impresses as dried super glue over my skin. I wake up several times per night with (often both of) my entire arms having 'fallen asleep' from finger tips up to my neck. This occasionally happens throughout the day as well. The numbness is ever-present, but I have hopes of the entire thing resolving as long as I stay off this substance. Let me just say that while I've been in chronic pain for 13 years, it's this problem that has me weep like a little child and finally caused me to seek a pain specialist.

Whatever you make of this, I for my part consider it more than reason enough to stay off the stuff.

 

[yoyo50]

Quick question is this anything like vaping MDPV? MPA is shit, looking for the same fast effects does 3F-Phenmetrazine do that?

 

[crOOk]

It's a very intense rush like I said. It's very different in that large amounts have a very stoning side to them. I did have a few psychotic breaks on it (involving hallucinations, a quite real ambulance coming to pick me up, delusions which neither me nor friends can tell how much of them is based on reality). I enjoyed it immensely when loaded into the same shot with MDPV, 250mg/25mg. However fun that may be though, I personally would strongly disadvise against touching this substance, especially vaporating it. I can not stress enough how strong the correlation between my 3F-P use and the paresthes, hypesthesia and neurogenic pain I still experience is. I can just pray this will eventually pass. However if it does not, well. Fuck. I will just have to see how this progresses throughout the next couple of weeks and pray there won't be another night like yesterday's. If you experience even the slightest hint at paresthesia, lay down the pipe and toss that poison.

At first I thought this would just be the beginning of post thrombotic syndrome (thrombosis was also acquired while injecting this phenmetrazine anaogue), but the fact that since the last 2g it affects my left leg as well, this seems unlikely. It might just increase coagulation resulting in multiple occult veinous occlusions, but it seems much more likely that this substance elicits severe acute neurotoxicity in the upper dosage range (~200-500mg IV).

Amnesia being a very reliably occuring side effect is another strong indicator of toxic nerve damage.

I know I am repeating myself and some might be very annoyed by that since my warnings are based on mere suspicion sparked by anecdotal evidence, but I am hopefully not gonna grow tired of doing so until there is reason to believe this substance to be safe.

 

[Sprout]

Fuck, Cr00k, I am so sorry to hear but I can't thank you enough for posting your experience.
I lost a good few days to vapourising 3-FPM, with my dose escalating to... I don't actually know, by the end of the binge I was just emptying piles out of the bag onto the foil. I'd estimate around the half gram a dose mark. And with the rush, short acute duration and insane redose compulsion, I was using at least once an hour.
I've said it a few times that this drug has a very... "odd" character to it, it simply doesn't feel quite right, but once that bag is open it doesn't matter - it will be gone, without me being entirely sure if I even like it.
It seems almost insidious, and not to mention horrendously addictive.

The amnesia is the first thing that worried me, then the complete and total exhaustion that seems to plague the days after even a single dose.
Please keep us updated.

Stay safe.

 

[Ziiirp]

Hope you guys get better soon.

Luckily it did only need two small binges for me to realize, that dis shit sucks ass. I hope the next time clueless fellows announce "Woow, this new random stim x has no comedown and feels like amphetamine minus the jitterness" or similar brabble, everyone will exercise extra caution instead of going all in.

It was the same case with 2-FMA, which also has a drawn out comedown and is apparently cardio-toxic.

 

[Sprout]

To be fair, we are the guinea pigs here, so reports like these are absolutely vital.
I do worry some of the new analogues will provide more evidence of toxicity - the para-halogenated Amphetamines (X-F/MA excluded) and their infamous neuronal destruction may never had been discovered if 4-FA was the only data point to extrapolate from.

Maybe in a few years we will look at the halo-phenmetrazines in the same way we do with the halo-amphetamines.

Sadly, it seems we won't know until it's too late.

I can't promise anything, but I have a laboratory occupation and thus may attempt to get some animal studies performed.

Anyone else with questionable symptoms that may, in any way, be correlated with both the substance in question and its rapidly expanding list of analogues, please make sure to post here.



EDIT: I recall some mention of this substance as an inhibitor of MAO, some mentioned it was merely a substrate but I don't think a clear conclusion was reached.
Did anyone find any more data on the matter?
I'll search myself once I get back to Uni - many initial 'pay per page/article' journals and papers are free of charge if I access them within the institution.

 

[rugged butthole]

There's defo impurities in the powder batch selling cheap at the big site. I think it may be sodium hydroxide or carbonate.

Got 100mg and dissolved in IPA, took about 25ml. There was some strange square shaped crystals which just wouldn't dissolve, so I decanted the IPA as I'd run out of space and saved it. Added the same amount of IPA and even with heat they wouldn't dissolve.

Crashed out the 3f with ether, collected bright sparkly crystals and a yellow tinge in the solution. I evaporated the IPA\ether and there is a sticky yellow oil present.

Now, this is either an impurity or it could be minute amounts of freebase 3f, the slight water content of the IPA could have converted if the crystals left were definitely a base salt? Pretty sure naoh is soluble in IPA slightly though.

Hmm. Maybe that's why it stings your nose so much. Not tried the clean crystals yet.

 

[crOOk]

Thanks for that. It definitely seems there are some very nasty impurities in the powder, hence the massive difference in price. I doubt it is NaOH though since I am both very familiar with aqueous NaOH and have tasted aqueous Phenmetrazine solution at various concentrations. Nonetheless, thanks a lot for your looking into this.

 

[yoyo50]

sounds like ill stick with PV then cheers

 

[rugged butthole]

No problem. Just tried vaping a tiny amount of the cleaned crystals, very different appearance. Melt easy, stronger better tasting and zero residue. Stayed clear when heated.

Good stuff.

Yep definitely clean now. Crystals are completely dry, uniform and free flowing. Doesn't stick to the bag. Follow my procedure on prev page if you'd like your powder cleaning.

 

[rugged butthole]

Sounds good. If your vendor sent the right chem. It should be as you described.

i switched vendor and tbis new stuff looks differnt firdt was a bit chalk like and clumpt this is sparkly and very fluid (not clumpy) anyone any imput

 

[Sprout]

Given an infamously shoddy, but overwhelmingly popular UK vendor is selling this in bulk, and manufacturing it to closely resemble Freebase Cocaine ('Phenzacaine Rock'), is it not possible that large scale contamination of NH4 or Na2CO3 is present in the, aforementioned and suspiciously priced, powder form? Especially given many users are consuming via inhalation.
The NH4 residue would explain the causticity experienced. However, residual Sodium Carbonate when administered at the doses Cr00k was using, especially via injection, is far from innocuous. Having massive effects on electrolyte levels and their metabolism amongst other less than pleasant symptoms.

Hmmmm, the plot thickens.


EDIT: It may also be pertinent to consider that the 'Phenidate ban was very recent, and without much prior warning - thus, I imagine a few warehouses are stocked to the brim with notoriously toxic, corrosive white powders with stimulant action - surely no RC vendor would be so unscrupulous as to sell a toxic mix of poorly refined chemicals?! 8(

 

[Erikmen]

I saw a drug documentary that shows how "impossible" is to get decent coke in UK so they create other chemicals to produce similar effects, together with benzocaine to imitate the nose analgesia..
According to this, real coke would be unbelievable expensive and cut. Don't know how much of all of this is true though..

 

[Sprout]

While it's true that street 'Coke' is a joke in this country, decent quality (60%+) stuff is around, but at a serious premium - ~£120 for a 'gram' that weighs 0.7g or less.

Purity is usually terrible, caffeine and Lidocaine would not be a complete surprise.

Actual purified, raw, uncut Cocaine HCl/base was absolutely shocking to myself - I could scarcely believe the difference. It felt like an entirely different drug.

 

[rugged butthole]

Photo of the solid impurity.