Help! 2ce- different for girls?? halp

[baitstep]

so my bf has been telling me horror stories of how some girls absolutely lose their shit on 2ce and for others its like a fun lsd-vibe trip and theres like no in between. i know that due to differences in our ph that certain other drugs like meth for example can sometimes be experienced differently based on gender but i cant find anything online that supports what he's saying and i'm confused. reading things like https://trippywiki.com/2c-e/#longterm-benefits--side-effects, its said that bad trips occur like they can on any psychedelic based on content you consume, your environment, mental state etc, but he has been saying that some girls have a great time and some go absolutely out of their mind like on a need to be 5150'd level and theres no way to tell unless you do it. im wondering if maybe he was concerned about my mental state at the time but didn't want to say that which would be out of character for him and doesn't make sense either? i'm just curious if anyone has heard or experienced anything like this please and thank you and if not i guess he and i have a lot to talk about :/

 

[xdrc]

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.cgi?A=Search&S1=137&Sub1=&DoseMethodID=-1&S2=-1&Sub2=&S3=-1&Sub3=&Str=&Title=&AuthorSearch=&A1=-1&GenderSelect=F&Intensity=&I2=&C1=-1&Context=-1&Lang=1&Group=-1&S4=-1

These are all Erowid reports of 2C-E with female as selected gender. I haven't read them just now, so perhaps use at your own discretion. I have never heard of any gender/sex-related differences with 2C-E, but of course the reality is that most experimental drug users are probably male. Thankfully 2C-E has seen wide use and thus there are a number of reports for it. Generally responses for 2C-E vary wildly, and many people have great respect for it because it can be immensely powerful. The best advice is to do your own and careful dosage titration, starting from low doses (below 10 mg) and go from there to see how you react.

Have a good journey, I think it is worth trying it.

 

[iom]

HI and welcome to Bluelight! I regard 2C-E to be one of my all-time favorite drugs, up there with mescaline. I see from your other post that you have some experience with psychedelics. That's very good because 2C-E is not an especially good choice for a beginner. It is intensely psychedelic, even at quite low doses.

Individual responses vary with psychedelic drugs in general, and I believe this is particularly true for 2C-E. This forum has a few seasoned trippers who find it to be too heavy or intense to use very frequently or even at all. This can be because of overwhelming body effects, mental effects, or both. I don't believe gender has anything to do with it.

I saw a highly experienced tripper basically freak out on a fairly moderate dose of 12.5 mg. He spent the trip hiding in his sleeping bag. He turned out to be hypersensitive and had better, more controlled experiences with lower doses. On a later occasion, I was tripping on 2C-E with a friend when a very young (barely 18) girlfriend of his came over and wanted to try some too. She was a tiny Asian woman with zero trip experience, and I cautiously suggested she start at 8 mg while hoping she didn't turn out to be hypersensitive like the last guy. Fortunately, she had a typical low dose response, and she spent most of her trip contentedly snuggling and making out with my friend until I left.

Plenty of people end up somewhere in between the extremes. The crowd around Shulgin (the inventor) often described it as "difficult but worthwhile". While I've never felt out-of-control of threatened while on a 2C-E trip, I do find it to be deeply introspective, and I credit it with having strongly influenced major life decisions I've taken. IMO, it's best to go into the experience prepared to "spill your heart out" if that's what the experience demands of you. Hopefully your boyfriend doesn't judge such a reaction to be "losing your shit".

My advice is to start with no more than 8-10 mg for your first time. I just took 2C-E (12.5 mg ) two weeks ago and had a beautiful trip with my wife who had a fairly strong trip with full visuals off of only 10 mg. Unlike many psychedelics (including LSD), people rarely report having sexual feelings or enhancement on 2C-E, but it worked incredibly well for us in that regard.

Best wishes!

 

[Didgital]

2C-E is a very intense experience, ive seen many men and several women take it, and i may not have enough data points to make a solid conclusion, but ime males are just as likely to have a rough experience on it.

For me it is very physical i always feel it in my gut, cant inagine tripping on 2ce while PMSing tho.

 

[Deleted member 576750]

you're absolutely right that there are a lot of sex differences in the brain, this is an important question to ask! unfortunately I don't know much om the subject but I wanted to comment that 2C-E is one psychedelic that can be very intense and very introspective so set and setting are highly important

if you've never used a psychedelic before it may be wise to start with something more forgiving such as 2C-B and of course be mindful as to how you've been feeling mentally and physically and be around people you trust entirely

 

[Esperighanto]

I've never used 2C-E or been around people using it, but I have used and administered a ton of psychedelics to people and AFAB people seem to be significantly more afflicted by certain side effects. Even if deep into HRT/other forms of transition, or having used HRT to reach a point of non-binary expression, AFAB people are more often wolloped by serotonergics at low-to-moderate doses, blacked out by benzodiazepines, knocked unconscious by GHB and cannabinoids (especially dabs), compulsive with redosing empathogens, prone to anxiety while on stimulants or cannabinoids, and significantly more effected by the majority of sedatives. I've usually expected most of this to relate to bodyweight, but over time I realized that it had far more to do with other metabolic factors that I can't quite identify. I also suspected it had to do with hormonal birth control, but the more people I've met and administered drugs to/done drugs with, the more I've realized that there is some inherent degree of difference between AMAB and AFAB people as far as metabolics go.

DXM, nitrous, salvia, lotus, and coca tea also seem less effective on AFAB people than AMAB people, idrk why but it's almost guaranteed that I need to increase their dose (relative to bodyweight) to achieve the same effect as I would when going mg/kg with an AMAB person.

 

[Deleted member 576750]

I've never used 2C-E or been around people using it, but I have used and administered a ton of psychedelics to people and AFAB people seem to be significantly more afflicted by certain side effects. Even if deep into HRT/other forms of transition, or having used HRT to reach a point of non-binary expression, AFAB people are more often wolloped by serotonergics at low-to-moderate doses, blacked out by benzodiazepines, knocked unconscious by GHB and cannabinoids (especially dabs), compulsive with redosing empathogens, prone to anxiety while on stimulants or cannabinoids, and significantly more effected by the majority of sedatives. I've usually expected most of this to relate to bodyweight, but over time I realized that it had far more to do with other metabolic factors that I can't quite identify. I also suspected it had to do with hormonal birth control, but the more people I've met and administered drugs to/done drugs with, the more I've realized that there is some inherent degree of difference between AMAB and AFAB people as far as metabolics go.

DXM, nitrous, salvia, lotus, and coca tea also seem less effective on AFAB people than AMAB people, idrk why but it's almost guaranteed that I need to increase their dose (relative to bodyweight) to achieve the same effect as I would when going mg/kg with an AMAB person.

you just reminded me, AFAB people typically are more likely to compulsively used amphetamines as well. I'm unsure if the mechanism is know but sex differences are the current low hanging fruit of the neuropharm world so we may see literature in the near future

 

[iom]

I've never used 2C-E or been around people using it, but I have used and administered a ton of psychedelics to people and AFAB people seem to be significantly more afflicted by certain side effects.

I don't really agree with you here, but I think we can both be correct if we account for the different samples. The compositions of our samples depended on a lot of complicated factors including cultural differences between our different peer groups and which have surely shifted a lot since I was your age. To put it another way, we didn't have the same kinds of friends, and the women (or AFABs) who chose to use various drugs 20 years ago may be a very different kind of subset than those who choose to use them now. One thing I can say with confidence is that social relations are totally different now compared to them. There is generally far more emphasis on power relations between people now-an-days, probably because of the dramatic increased stratification of economic power that occurred over this period.

Relatedly, we did not use terms like AFAB in those days, and it wasn't really a big deal even though there were a handful of transgendered people around. Though I must say, there were FAR MORE gender queer / non-confirming people of all shapes and sizes back then, at least in the circles I was adjacent to. Ironically the grand rite of passage for many people back then was coming to proper terms with their sexuality---gay, striaght or bi---and I recall how so many people became so agonized---confused and dysphoric over it. Of course Dr. Kinsey solved that one long ago, pointing out that practically everyone is at least a little bi, and many people prove to be quite flexible in the sexuality over their lifetimes as their life experiences and personal circumstances influence their preferences. By the same token, and noting the absurdly narrow characterizations that seem to pass for "masculine" and "feminine" these days, practically everyone who isn't seriously deranged probably ought to be classified as gender-fluid, but this in turn suggests that nothing really underpins this new notion of gender identity except the fact of identification itself. It is a completely abstract (and very much commodified) thing, divorced from all the substance that makes people---men and women of all sorts---who they really are.

Anyway, I've seen plenty of men including some serious hard-head types be absolutely plowed by certain psychedelics and/or cannabis. I knew one guy who enjoyed his drink, his speed, and his psychedelics all in quite generous portions. He was almost always the most collected, most stable, and most extroverted person at any party as well as the most likely to be the designated driver, regardless of his intoxication level. When it came to cannabis though, he dismissed it as "weak tea", and not worth doing. That was until his girlfriend, my roommate, had a party with pot brownies and persuaded him to try half of one. I'm hypersensitive and knew to only eat one myself. I was standing with him as he was working the grill as he usually did, feeling very nice and high, and all the sudden he just turned and walked away. He abandoned the grill, walked straight to his girlfriend's bedroom, and hid in her bed under her covers until the next morning. Afterwards he said it was the scariest drug trip of his life.

I just keep thinking of examples, each with stories behind them that run counter to this claim. For example, the person I know best who is very insensitive to psychedelics (like you are) is a woman. And speaking of Salvia and women, a roommate of mine invited over a couple young friends of his, twin sisters, Mormons, who had just turned 18. I persuaded them to try smoking some Salvia 6X, which wasn't even difficult because they were of age, it was totally legal, and the church had nothing to say about it. (Coffee? No. Salvia? Yes!) They both hit the pipe like pros and had full blown trips which left them conversing excitedly about philosophy and the nature of reality for hours afterwards. I'm sad I never got to hang out with them again.

I agree that chromosonal configuration likely has a significant impact on metabolic factors that might substantially alter people's drug responses. I just haven't seen any clear trends around me, at least where cannabis and psychedelics are concerned. With 2C-E specifically, I'm trying to recall everyone who I've given it to and how they reacted. I think the numbers of men and women I gave it to were about the same. One woman I gave it to complained of some anxiety and GI discomfort and had a difficult but otherwise normal intensity trip at 12.5 mg. She accepted that her anxiety and GI discomfort may have been interrelated. Another vomited but otherwise had a blast on 15 mg, and she vomits from most psychedelics anyway and MDMA too. A third (the hard head) only got nausea and a mild body high off of something like 40 mg. The others reacted typically with minimal side-effects and had mostly positive trips. Among the men? One had a major freak out on 12.5 mg. Another felt very nauseous and ill on 6 mg. A third seemed to have an ok trip on 15 mg but committed suicide a few months later (probably unrelated). One slept through his 15 mg trip, despite apparently having intense hallucinations of electricity surging through the ground on his walk to the porta-potties in the middle of the night. Plenty of others had fairly typical responses with minimal side effects. The variations I saw between individuals among a small group were so great that I'd probably need 1000 people to establish any sort of gender-biased trend with any confidence, and that's not even considering the whole sampling problem.

When consulted, I generally recommend the same doses of psychedelics regardless of sex or body weight. I care much more about a person's history with the particular drug and with psychedelics and drugs in general. If women these days are indeed tending to react more strongly or adversely to psychedelics than men, then that is definitely news to me and does make me curious as to whether this is a recent phenomenon and what might have caused these apparent changes to occur.