2C-E - can it be used spiritually and introspectively? + a couple other questions

[Jesusgreen]

Alright so I'm interested in trying 2C-E, however the reason I became interested in psychedelics in the first place was for the shamanic connection with the earth, the ability to solve mental and physical problems mentally through a single 6-8 hour experience, the ability to think through things that I normally do not fully understand, the ability to find and resolve problems in my day to day life that I do not normally notice. With 4-AcO-DMT I found this, however, as I'm sure many of you know, a common trap we fall into is being afraid of change and not embracing the new, so I would also like to try 2C-E as it is available to me.

Unfortunately, due to the price, my choices boil down to either a large amount of 2C-E and not very much 4-AcO-DMT or a medium amount of 4-AcO-DMT and a small amount of 2C-E (as 4-AcO-DMT is significantly more expensive).

So before I decide whether to try 2C-E or not I have a few questions:
- Is it a spiritual drug? I often hear it's not, but then, for me, even weed is a very spiritual drug, and so it would seem odd to me if a psychedelic wasn't.
- Is it introspective? Once again, I've heard yes and no on this question, but everyone seems to agree it's more introspective than weed, weed for me is as introspective as a lower dose of 4-AcO-DMT, just with less of the acknowledgement of big problems in my life that I need to fix.
- How do the visuals compare to a very high dose of 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms? At one point during my most recent trip the CEVs were indistinguishable from having my eyes open, and the OEVs were so vivid I thought they were real (e.g. my covers turning into eyes). I often hear 2C-E's main pro is it's visuals so I would at least like to be very impressed by these if I were to buy it.
- Is it euphoric? I hear mixed opinions about this. Some people seem to say it's very euphoric while others say it isn't at all. I loved the euphoria from low and high doses of 4-AcO-DMT alike, so euphoria would be an obvious (but not 100% necessary) plus.
- Is the nausea as bad as people make out? I found with high doses of 4-AcO-DMT it was mildly nauseous on the come up but I never felt like I would throw up, and as the trip progressed the nausea subsided completely. Nausea is a big issue for me if it involves throwing up, unless it is only encountered with 35mg+ or higher doses or something.

Finally, given that ~35-40mg gave me a very powerful ++++ trip with 4-AcO-DMT (going by trip reports I would say it was equivalent to around 7g of dried mushrooms. Not tried mushrooms though so don't take my word for it), how much would you recommend for a ++++ with 2C-E (oral, but also nasal if you know)

PS, was planning to ask all this on the 2C-E thread but the search function turned up no results, so either I misclicked something and messed up the search or the thread no longer exists - decided to make this topic anyway as the responses might be a little less biased than in the official 2C-E topic too.

Thanks in advance

 

[raellear]

It is easily the most introperspektive and spiritual phen I experienced so far. At the same time it is a hedonistic experience. Much stimulation, a lot of visuals and very 'heart-opening' imho.
It does not go as deep as mescaline or LSD do.

 

[Ohheyitsme]

- Is it a spiritual drug? Yes if that's the way you want to take it.

- Is it introspective? Same as above.

- How do the visuals compare to a very high dose of 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms? As good if not better, can't tell if eyes are open or closed etc as you mentioned, some real insane visuals.

- Is it euphoric? Definitely.

- Is the nausea as bad as people make out? For me personally yes am usually sick a few times during come up.

How much would you recommend for a ++++ with 2C-E (oral, but also nasal if you know) Depends on the person, personally have gone as high as 70mg but was very intense.

It does not go as deep as mescaline or LSD do.

It does if you take enough.

 

[tBirdee]

It does if you take enough.

tee hee

 

[Pans-Advocate]

My first experience with 2C-E wasn't technically my experience ... I was hanging out with my best friend while he was on it for the first time (I opted not to trip with him because I had an upcoming midterm exam the next day). He had a completely ridiculous trip ... he basically experienced the second-personality phenomenon from Fight Club and had to fight a selfish, evil alternate self out of his own mind. He was much better off afterward, psychologically speaking, and as scary as it was, the experience was deeply healing. I would absolutely say that 2C-E has the capacity to be deeply, profoundly introspective, and if you are a spiritually minded person who views psychedelics as spiritually meaningful, I don't think 2C-E is going to be an exception to that rule at all.

That said, my own experience with it is almost entirely recreationally oriented ... I've only ever taken moderate doses (15-20mg oral, 7-10mg nasal) and I've only ever had fun, lighthearted, extroverted trips in which I spend lots of time admiring pretty things like clouds and having somewhat giggly conversations with friends. It's very good for that kind of thing ... it's easily my favorite Saturday-afternoon trip-because-I-feel-like-tripping kind of drug. If you don't ask for much more than some enjoyable visuals, a refreshingly energetic body high, and a touch of humorous absurdity in your thoughts, 2C-E (in moderate doses) is definitely your shit.

I imagine high doses (30-40+mg oral, 20-25+mg nasal) would be comparable to a slightly more physically challenging strong LSD trip. The body high probably gets uncomfortably intense after a certain dosage (I've never gotten to that point myself but I can easily see how you could) and it seems likely to me that the dosages that produce full mind-meltdown ego-death ++++ trips might also produce considerable physical discomfort. I have an interest in a high-dose 2C-E experience but I'm not sure if I have interest in doing it more than once.

Personally, as someone who's pretty familiar with 2C-E and has never taken 4-AcO-DMT before, I'd go with the small amount of 2C-E and the moderate amount of 4-AcO-DMT. 2C-E is, in my opinion, the optimal psychedelic for frivolity, and you really don't need much (7-10mg nasally is all you need for a fun trip, it stings for the first 20 minutes but it goes away after that). 4-AcO-DMT, on the other hand, since it is a tryptamine, is much closer to chemicals I'd consider truly sacred (n,n-DMT, 4-HO-DMT) and for this reason I'd tend towards getting a larger quantity of it.

 

[ikkyu]

- Is it a spiritual drug? I often hear it's not, but then, for me, even weed is a very spiritual drug, and so it would seem odd to me if a psychedelic wasn't.

It can be used as such and I've never not experienced it that way, but some people can and do use it recreationally. If you tend to view psychedelics and weed in this light, you'll probably find 2C-E to be fruitful in this area.

- Is it introspective? Once again, I've heard yes and no on this question, but everyone seems to agree it's more introspective than weed, weed for me is as introspective as a lower dose of 4-AcO-DMT, just with less of the acknowledgement of big problems in my life that I need to fix.

Again, it can be if you push it in that direction. Unlike LSD or mushrooms, it's not pushy on its own, in fact it has a very neutral character about it. I've found it very introspective but in a more constructive, utilitarian way than with the tryptamines. If you're looking not only to introspect but also to devise strategies for change in your everyday life, you might find 2C-E useful.

- How do the visuals compare to a very high dose of 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms? At one point during my most recent trip the CEVs were indistinguishable from having my eyes open, and the OEVs were so vivid I thought they were real (e.g. my covers turning into eyes). I often hear 2C-E's main pro is it's visuals so I would at least like to be very impressed by these if I were to buy it.

It's the most visual substance I've tried, hands down (not counting shorter-acting, smokeable psychedelics like DMT or S. divinorum). At around 25mg is when I begin to notice no difference between open and closed eyes. I also find cannabis really synergizes nicely in this area, making the visuals much more crisp and vivid.

- Is it euphoric? I hear mixed opinions about this. Some people seem to say it's very euphoric while others say it isn't at all. I loved the euphoria from low and high doses of 4-AcO-DMT alike, so euphoria would be an obvious (but not 100% necessary) plus.

I've never felt any euphoric push from it; again, it's got a neutral headspace about it IME. Maybe some people feel the energetic bodyload as being euphoric? I certainly don't.

- Is the nausea as bad as people make out? I found with high doses of 4-AcO-DMT it was mildly nauseous on the come up but I never felt like I would throw up, and as the trip progressed the nausea subsided completely. Nausea is a big issue for me if it involves throwing up, unless it is only encountered with 35mg+ or higher doses or something.

I've only thrown up on 2C-E once, when I was coming up on 18mg in the same room as some people who were watching a violent movie. I wasn't watching the movie but just the sounds of bones crushing, faces being smashed, etc. made me have to run to the bathroom and yak. Apart from that I haven't felt any nausea on 2C-E that a few puffs of cannabis couldn't fix.

Finally, given that ~35-40mg gave me a very powerful ++++ trip with 4-AcO-DMT (going by trip reports I would say it was equivalent to around 7g of dried mushrooms. Not tried mushrooms though so don't take my word for it), how much would you recommend for a ++++ with 2C-E (oral, but also nasal if you know)

I've had strong +++ verging on ++++ at 20-25mg orally. I haven't tried it nasally yet but the pain from insufflation sounds god-awful.

Hope this helps.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I've had a blissful ++++ with 2C-E. The dosage was 20mg, but I don't believe dosage has any relevance to ++++ experiences.

2C-E is a wonderful psychedelic...probably the best of the 2C family, along with 2C-T-7.

It is a difficult trip. In the beginning there is nausea and quite a lot of energy. But it will smooth out as the trip progresses.

My main advice with 2C-E is do not take it at night. I don't know what it is, but it's a fucking eerie drug at night. I sincerely believe this is a day-time psychedelic.

For someone new to it, I think 12-16mg is plenty for a first dosage. It becomes twice as potent for every 2mg you add (18mg was twice as intense as 16mg, and 16mg was twice as intense as 14mg....20mg was off-the-chart intense). With that in mind, stick to lower dosages until you know how you will react.

 

[any major dude]

Alright so I'm interested in trying 2C-E, however the reason I became interested in psychedelics in the first place was for the shamanic connection with the earth, the ability to solve mental and physical problems mentally through a single 6-8 hour experience, the ability to think through things that I normally do not fully understand, the ability to find and resolve problems in my day to day life that I do not normally notice. With 4-AcO-DMT I found this, however, as I'm sure many of you know, a common trap we fall into is being afraid of change and not embracing the new, so I would also like to try 2C-E as it is available to me.

Unfortunately, due to the price, my choices boil down to either a large amount of 2C-E and not very much 4-AcO-DMT or a medium amount of 4-AcO-DMT and a small amount of 2C-E (as 4-AcO-DMT is significantly more expensive).

So before I decide whether to try 2C-E or not I have a few questions:
- Is it a spiritual drug? I often hear it's not, but then, for me, even weed is a very spiritual drug, and so it would seem odd to me if a psychedelic wasn't.
- Is it introspective? Once again, I've heard yes and no on this question, but everyone seems to agree it's more introspective than weed, weed for me is as introspective as a lower dose of 4-AcO-DMT, just with less of the acknowledgement of big problems in my life that I need to fix.
- How do the visuals compare to a very high dose of 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms? At one point during my most recent trip the CEVs were indistinguishable from having my eyes open, and the OEVs were so vivid I thought they were real (e.g. my covers turning into eyes). I often hear 2C-E's main pro is it's visuals so I would at least like to be very impressed by these if I were to buy it.
- Is it euphoric? I hear mixed opinions about this. Some people seem to say it's very euphoric while others say it isn't at all. I loved the euphoria from low and high doses of 4-AcO-DMT alike, so euphoria would be an obvious (but not 100% necessary) plus.
- Is the nausea as bad as people make out? I found with high doses of 4-AcO-DMT it was mildly nauseous on the come up but I never felt like I would throw up, and as the trip progressed the nausea subsided completely. Nausea is a big issue for me if it involves throwing up, unless it is only encountered with 35mg+ or higher doses or something.

Finally, given that ~35-40mg gave me a very powerful ++++ trip with 4-AcO-DMT (going by trip reports I would say it was equivalent to around 7g of dried mushrooms. Not tried mushrooms though so don't take my word for it), how much would you recommend for a ++++ with 2C-E (oral, but also nasal if you know)

PS, was planning to ask all this on the 2C-E thread but the search function turned up no results, so either I misclicked something and messed up the search or the thread no longer exists - decided to make this topic anyway as the responses might be a little less biased than in the official 2C-E topic too.

Thanks in advance

I'd say 2c-e, for most, provides ample opportunity for introspection at lower doses, and once you get much above 15mg, there's going to be some introspection whether you like it or not. I'd recommend 18-22mg (lean towards the high end if your a bigger or somewhat resistant person, towards the smaller if not) for a "mystical" type experience, as that seems to be the range where this occurs for most people. I'd venture a guess that 18-22mg of 2c-e to be roughly equivalent (not qualitatively, but rather in regards to meeting psychological criteria for a mystical experience, see Hood's Mysticism Scale) to ~35+mg 4-Aco-DMT (30mg 4-HO-DMT has been shown to "occasion mystical type experiences" in more people than not, so I would assume that would be roughly equivalent to 35-40mg 4-Aco-DMT). 2c-e has definitely helped me with decisions i was having rather extreme difficulty with, albeit I did take the 2c-e with that specific intent. As for euphoric vs dysphoric that varies alot between both individuals and from experience to experience within the same individual. 2c-e is known for its "neutrality" which some have equated with any "icy" feeling. While these aspects seem apparent to me it seems that euphoria is fairly easily attainable with this substance, its just more user directed than some others. This increases with experience with this substance IME. I have experience little to no nausea on 2c-e, but none of the 2 carbon PEA's have given me GI issues, even 2c-t-2. Some tryptamines do though, so YMMV on that one.

The dosages I listed were for oral administration, nasal about 1/2 that much but frankly that ROA produces quite a bit of pain and I wouldn't recommend it. But going through an entire 2c-e comeup in about 4 or 5 minutes is quite impressive and overwhelming. Definitely start with oral though. 10-12mg is a good starter dose, and many experienced users find this to be a sufficient amount on subsequent trips as well.

Good thread, these are pretty much my two favorite psychedelics at the moment. 4-Aco-MET might give its dimethyl cousin a run for its money though if I can ever get ahold of some more of it. And i'm going to try 2c-p in the near future as well, but I doubt i'll prefer it to 2c-e.

Oh, and one final note, in Higher Wisdom Dr Shulgin is asked what he thinks his most useful creation thus far has been (or something to that effect I can't remember the exact quote) and he responds that 2c-e is and gives a brief explanation as to why. I thought this was quite impressive as he has always held 2c-b as his "favorite." Definitely a good read if you can pick a copy up.

 

[ikkyu]

My main advice with 2C-E is do not take it at night. I don't know what it is, but it's a fucking eerie drug at night. I sincerely believe this is a day-time psychedelic.

I've had great times on 2C-E at night. If you're after visuals, a dark room at night is unparalleled for enjoying OEVs. Whether or not a psychedelic is "meant" for daytime or evening use is largely up to the person taking it.

 

[solistus]

- Is it a spiritual drug? I often hear it's not, but then, for me, even weed is a very spiritual drug, and so it would seem odd to me if a psychedelic wasn't.

Drugs are never spiritual. People on drugs can interpret the experience that way, but that's entirely a function of what you personally consider to be conducive to spiritual growth. You'll ultimately have to answer this one for yourself.

- Is it introspective? Once again, I've heard yes and no on this question, but everyone seems to agree it's more introspective than weed, weed for me is as introspective as a lower dose of 4-AcO-DMT, just with less of the acknowledgement of big problems in my life that I need to fix.

Drugs are never introspective. People on drugs are. Whether 2CE will make you more or less introspective than other drugs isn't something anyone else will be able to answer for you. In my experience, it doesn't tend to blow your mind and directly communicate unconscious thoughts like tryptamines do; it's more akin to MDMA, putting me in a chatty and emotionally honest state of mind that can be very introspective if I push it that way, or can be almost manically ego-boosting like uppers often are. It all depends on set and setting. YMMV of course.

- How do the visuals compare to a very high dose of 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms? At one point during my most recent trip the CEVs were indistinguishable from having my eyes open, and the OEVs were so vivid I thought they were real (e.g. my covers turning into eyes). I often hear 2C-E's main pro is it's visuals so I would at least like to be very impressed by these if I were to buy it.

If you try a new psychedelic wanting to be impressed by visuals, in my experience that doesn't tend to lead to a very productive or satisfying trip. That said, most people find 2CE very visual. It's hard to say whether it will be more or less visual for you than LSD, psilocin/4-aco, etc. but it will probably at least be comparable. I find that it consistently produces a lot more patterning and distortions at low-mid doses (low-mid shroom/acid doses sometimes lack any significant visuals for me), but the higher doses don't tend to get quite as intense and detailed. CEVs are easier to conjure up than OEVs in general.

- Is it euphoric? I hear mixed opinions about this. Some people seem to say it's very euphoric while others say it isn't at all. I loved the euphoria from low and high doses of 4-AcO-DMT alike, so euphoria would be an obvious (but not 100% necessary) plus.

Personally, I get more of a mildly positive/pleasant stimulating body load, as opposed to the unique waves of euphoria that tryptamines like psilocin and DMT produce for me. It feels more like the consistent body high of a 'normal' drug as opposed to the sporadic waves of euphoric energy I get from tryptamines.

- Is the nausea as bad as people make out? I found with high doses of 4-AcO-DMT it was mildly nauseous on the come up but I never felt like I would throw up, and as the trip progressed the nausea subsided completely. Nausea is a big issue for me if it involves throwing up, unless it is only encountered with 35mg+ or higher doses or something.

Small doses (under 20mg) don't make me too nauseous, just a little passing queasiness on the come up. High doses (30mg+) almost always make me vomit once, usually around the 1-2 hour mark as I transition from coming up to peaking, and after I vomit I feel much better for the rest of the trip. It's not as overpowering as the nausea I get from too much alcohol, benzos, painkillers, etc.; more like a nauseous feeling that gets worse when I dwell on it until I more or less decide I'd rather get it over with so I don't have to worry about the possibility and can get on with my night of tripping shenanigans

Finally, given that ~35-40mg gave me a very powerful ++++ trip with 4-AcO-DMT (going by trip reports I would say it was equivalent to around 7g of dried mushrooms. Not tried mushrooms though so don't take my word for it), how much would you recommend for a ++++ with 2C-E (oral, but also nasal if you know)

If anyone ever finds a dose of any drug that *consistently* produces a ++++, it may very well be the end of society as we know it
True ++++ experiences are by definition EXTREMELY rare, and you can never guarantee or even really predict when one will occur. At any rate, reactions to 2CE vary WILDLY. I can take 30+ mg and stay relatively sane; I know people who take 15 or 16mg and have overwhelmingly powerful trips, almost too intense, and say that every single 1mg increment makes a bigger and bigger difference as they ramp up. Knowing my natural tolerance level to 2Cs now, if I were to go back to my first try wanting an intense experience, I might take as much as 30-35mg, but for MOST people that's a crazy excessive dose for a first time no matter how hard you like to trip. For that reason, I would highly recommend starting no higher than the 15-20mg range for your first try and moving up no more than 5mg each time until you find a dose that knocks your socks off without being excessive.

In addition to the usual concerns of not wanting to waste material and not wanting to have a psychologically hellish trip because you way overshoot the dose, 2Cs are highly stimulating and the length of the trip is also very dose-dependent. If you way overshoot with 2CE, not only will you have a potentially miserable trip to begin with, you might be stuck there for 12+ hours unable to sleep and uncomfortably stimulated the whole time. There's always more time to try a higher dose another trip, but you can't go back and untake what you've already taken.

Insufflated doses are about twice as potent as oral ones, but they hurt A LOT. I snorted 2C-E once and you would have to pay me a small fortune to convince me to do it again. The burn inside your naval cavity and down your throat from the drip are by far the worst of anything I've snorted, to the point where many people speculate it may be doing some kind of nasty chemical damage to the tissue. To top it off, while the desired effects are greatly potentiated, the nausea and uncomfortable aspects of the bodyload were, for me at least, potentiated even more. If you don't like nausea, DEFINITELY don't snort it - I've never had such a violent vomiting spell on any drug besides alcohol as I did with my snorted 2CE experiment. There was a solid 30-60 minutes of intense nausea with periodic vomiting, shaky awful stimulant-y side effects and general feeling like hell and wondering why the fuck I just did this to myself before I could even pay attention to the desirable aspects of the trip. Unless you're way overpaying for the stuff and are therefore desperate to save material, and/or are a hardcore masochist, I strongly recommend avoiding the nasal route of administration entirely. If you're into plugging, that's supposed to be a very effective way to administer 2Cs, but in general I'd say oral is the best route. It's plenty potent enough, it lasts longer, it's almost certainly the safest and most convenient ROA and it gives a good ratio of desired effects to annoying side effects.

 

[SirTophamHat]

2ce is great, you can take it in many directions/with different intentions. It isn't necessarily spiritual or introspective, bit it is neutral enough to give a lot of clarity in those areas. I like it more for recreation. After snorting 2ce and smoking some weed, I couldn't catch a ball bounced off of a wall in front of me due to the visual distraction (even hours after T-time). When I take 2ce I usually take it nasally because I love the intense come-up and shorter duration. Oral dosing might be better for the more intellectual headspace you may be looking for.

Get both chems, but more 4acodmt. You already know you like that one

 

[Jesusgreen]

Wow yesterday I saw this thread dropping down the page with lots of views but no replies, then I came back today and so many replies answering everything I asked. Thanks everyone, it sounds like 2C-E will serve exactly the purpose I would like it for.

Specifically:

If you're looking not only to introspect but also to devise strategies for change in your everyday life, you might find 2C-E useful.

That's exactly what I was hoping 2C-E would be good for, as I feel with 4-AcO-DMT it seems a lot more goes on in the background rather than the foreground - soul healing rather than giving you the ideas and desire to make some positive changes of your own. I feel the two drugs would make both an excellent combination, and could be used for different situations.

I like how this has been described as a day drug as due to the long duration I would most likely be dosing fairly early on in the day to avoid the uncomfortable "too tired to be awake but tripping too hard to sleep" limbo I've had on my longer 4-AcO-DMT trips when dosing at night. I will use it at night too though to compare as I agree that is is definitely a personal matter, depending on the user's preference.

I'll definitely be getting some now then, and in fact the responses may even convince me to go for the larger amount of 2C-E, as while I already know I like 4-AcO-DMT, if 2C-E can be equally useful then it stands to reason that when given the choice between ~30 and ~55+ trips for the same price, I would choose the latter. One problem in my life I have been able to point out without drugs is that I feel a lot more comfortable with tripping and such if I have a plentiful supply left over - which this would definitely ensure, as if I tripped once a week or less (which I would have to in order to avoid tolerance) then what is costing very little in comparison to other psychedelics would last me an entire year or longer, unless I always go for heroic doses, in which case it would still last me several months.

I will probably experiment with both oral and nasal ROAs, most commonly oral but if I am dosing at night I will most likely take it nasally so as to avoid a prolonged trip and missing out on any chance of sleep that night.

If you try a new psychedelic wanting to be impressed by visuals, in my experience that doesn't tend to lead to a very productive or satisfying trip.

That's not my intention but I asked because I often hear people describing it as being amazingly visual, and so if everyone here had said that it was absolutely useless in a spiritual/introspective sense then I would decide whether I want to try it based on the headspace, intensity and the visuals - maybe as a more recreational accompaniment to my stash for breaks between more serious trips. However as it seems, the answers I got suggest that 2C-E will be as useful as I hoped, so the visuals are not important, but of course, may add to the pleasantness of the trip if for example I trip at a concert or something.

Anyway thanks again for all the answers. I don't think I've ever had so many in depth answers about a drug on any other similar forum I've used. Cheers