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[25I-NBOMe Subthread] Combinations
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TheAppleCore
Bluelighter
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Consider yourself a guinea pig if you combine anything with 25I-NBOMe.
The fact of the matter is that the NBOMe 2C-X drugs have an extremely brief history of human use, and we know next to nothing about their pharmacology when taken *alone*, much less combined with other drugs.
Someone else could probably provide a more educated speculation, but nobody can guarantee that LSD + 25I-NBOMe is a safe combination. Take these drugs at your own risk!
The fact of the matter is that the NBOMe 2C-X drugs have an extremely brief history of human use, and we know next to nothing about their pharmacology when taken *alone*, much less combined with other drugs.
Someone else could probably provide a more educated speculation, but nobody can guarantee that LSD + 25I-NBOMe is a safe combination. Take these drugs at your own risk!
Thou
Bluelighter
NBOME combinations are extremely uncommon at this stage of the game.
If I were to begin trials I'd start EXTREMELY LOW on both sides of the gamut and stay home with a close friend. Preferably one trained in basic nursing techniques.
These are very new chemicals and combinations have not yet been asserted as being safe in any portion at this point. Please reconsider.
If I were to begin trials I'd start EXTREMELY LOW on both sides of the gamut and stay home with a close friend. Preferably one trained in basic nursing techniques.
These are very new chemicals and combinations have not yet been asserted as being safe in any portion at this point. Please reconsider.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
If you're just talking about 25I-NBOME, go see Erowid.
Thou
Bluelighter
Good advice. Shit I'm in a giving mood I'll even link you.
Big and Dandy 25I-NBOME Thread.
I don't believe we have a subthread yet as I've already mentioned these compounds are extremely new on the scale usually used to measure the safety and full effect profile of a given compound. Tread with extreme caution and use your best judgment.
These compounds have been getting MUCH easier to get in the last month, with the upcoming ban of the 2c's and most of the jwh's etc.
I'm expecting a lot more of these types of threads in the near future.
Big and Dandy 25I-NBOME Thread.
I don't believe we have a subthread yet as I've already mentioned these compounds are extremely new on the scale usually used to measure the safety and full effect profile of a given compound. Tread with extreme caution and use your best judgment.
These compounds have been getting MUCH easier to get in the last month, with the upcoming ban of the 2c's and most of the jwh's etc.
I'm expecting a lot more of these types of threads in the near future.
IamMe90
Bluelighter
I took 2mg 25i nasally with 2 strong LSD tabs. Let me advise if you take this combo: DOSE LOW.
This combo was the most overwhelming trip of my life. It was so visual I couldn't see, nauseating, and actually dysphoric. I've taken 1.5mg nasally by itself and this was a fantastic enjoyable time. If you do the combo, I suggest 1mg nbome buccaly and 1 hit of LSD.
This combo was the most overwhelming trip of my life. It was so visual I couldn't see, nauseating, and actually dysphoric. I've taken 1.5mg nasally by itself and this was a fantastic enjoyable time. If you do the combo, I suggest 1mg nbome buccaly and 1 hit of LSD.
bob_arctor
Bluelighter
600 mcg of buccal nbome-2c-i with 3 x 20 mg (spaced 30-40 min) of intranasal methoxetamine +6 into the trip produced a very interesting trip. The first part was reminiscent of LSD, but with methoxetamine added, it gained momentum though thought processes being divided and run "in parallel". In contrast to just methoxetamine alone, which I find clinical and distanced from musical experiences and so on, this was a powerfully heartfelt state introspection about life, coupled with parallelly run fascinating ruminations on the "cognitive blob" formed out of communication between different brain modules prompted by reading the latest book by neurolopsycholigist Oliver Sacks. The last stage was more introspective with very powerful CEV:s and a as me and my friend held hands we both experienced that we somehow communicated in the fashion done with deaf-blind people. Truly fascinating stuff and something I will repeat for sure. Still, keep in mind, as several other posters point out, this is highly an experimental area with too little data to establish some kind of "standard reaction".
I recommend against combining NBOMe compounds for the reasons already given, especially regarding any even remotely stimulating compound and that includes MXE. Another reason why not MXE is because it itself has such a short history of use.
If you don't mind I would make this into a general NBOMe combinations subthread.
If you don't mind I would make this into a general NBOMe combinations subthread.
IamMe90
Bluelighter
I agree with that reasoning in general solipsis, but do you really think that combining 25i with a chemical with the safety profile of LSD is any more dangerous than taking 25i alone?
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
^maybe the LSD would synergize too much with the 25i making the likelihood of something unknown happen. We can say LSD is quite safe but we have no idea about the nbome compounds, a few mg over the right dose and you could die or if something potentiates it in the same way there COULD be problems, but who knows. Is it really worth it to mix? If you really want to get way out there, i'm sure a mixture of lsd, mushrooms, ketamine, nitrous can get you there and we know that it would be relatively safe to do.
Probably not physically I don't think. But I don't know any of this for a fact either. It sounded like one experimenter got in a Beth state from 25I alone although I think this was with an inaccurately measured amount of smoked material. Mixing such potent psychedelics is always less predictable, since we have not seen thát many reports on these compounds that makes it less certain what will happen even if LSD doesn't really make any of this more physically dangerous with significant tendency.
But if anything, it seems a bit redundant to me, I never mix 'centrally acting' / classical psychedelics and by that I mean something like LSD that can tell a full and rich story on it's own. For example I don't think mixing mushrooms and LSD is either smart or interesting. But smoking DMT on top of any of them for example is another story.
Not that I am promoting combining DMT with any 25X compound, you must remember that DMT packs a punch to the heart and you must be careful with combinations.
IamMe90
Bluelighter
Well, I've combined 25i and LSD and it was anything but redundant or uninteresting. It was, in fact, the most intense psychedelic trip I've had, more visual than DMT and totally breakthrough. It was also scary in a lot of ways (not physically, but mentally) but I would repeat it.
I agree that mixing mushrooms and LSD isn't smart, but that's because they're so different within the 5ht2a sphere that they don't synergize well at all. 25i and LSD, however, felt like its own unique drug. The same can be said about 2c-x + LSD combos.
And Robotripper, I'll just have to disagree. I don't see how adding a drug like LSD could possibly make something like 25i any more dangerous than it already is or isn't. I just don't see the mechanism there. But again, to be prudent is certainly not stupid.
I agree that mixing mushrooms and LSD isn't smart, but that's because they're so different within the 5ht2a sphere that they don't synergize well at all. 25i and LSD, however, felt like its own unique drug. The same can be said about 2c-x + LSD combos.
And Robotripper, I'll just have to disagree. I don't see how adding a drug like LSD could possibly make something like 25i any more dangerous than it already is or isn't. I just don't see the mechanism there. But again, to be prudent is certainly not stupid.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
well i'm not disagreeing with you really, I was just suggesting the possibility that the LSD and 25i would synergize to a point that it'd make it feel like double the dose of 25i, how that would cause problems i have no idea lol but if you had a breakthrough experience on it there's defintitely some syngergy going on, whether it is harmful or not, who knows, personally i'd try it without worrying, and given your experience if i had LSD i'd try it today lol.
How would 25i go with tryptamines? like 5-meo-mipt or dalt? or even 4-aco-dmt (redundant?) and then what about mescaline combos which I have heard are amazing for full spectrum psychedelia; something to do with 5-ht2a1 and more subtypes being activated.
I'm all for experimenting but mescaline + 25i sounds like nausea to me. maybe allyescaline would fill it out. I need to do some more research....
is there anything inherently dangerous to mix with the nbome series? things like SSRI's, dissociatives, stimulants should have some sort of interaction and if it's similar to the 2c-x series it could be problematic for some people.
i apologize in advance if my reasoning is way off lol.
How would 25i go with tryptamines? like 5-meo-mipt or dalt? or even 4-aco-dmt (redundant?) and then what about mescaline combos which I have heard are amazing for full spectrum psychedelia; something to do with 5-ht2a1 and more subtypes being activated.
I'm all for experimenting but mescaline + 25i sounds like nausea to me. maybe allyescaline would fill it out. I need to do some more research....
is there anything inherently dangerous to mix with the nbome series? things like SSRI's, dissociatives, stimulants should have some sort of interaction and if it's similar to the 2c-x series it could be problematic for some people.
i apologize in advance if my reasoning is way off lol.
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IamMe90
Bluelighter
Well, mescaline + LSD was incredible, and I'd imagine 25i + mescaline would be even better. Definitely planning on trying that sometime soon, but the body load is worrying...
I'm not sure about tryptamines, a phen + tryptamine sounds like it could be worrying territory but I've never done any such combos.
I'm not sure about tryptamines, a phen + tryptamine sounds like it could be worrying territory but I've never done any such combos.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
mushrooms/4-aco-dmt + 2c-x always worked amazing for me, kind of weird experiences though but worthwhile. I dislike 5-meo-mipt and 5-meo-dalt, they are just weird but maybe visually they would add some interesting twists to the 25i experience. I wish i knew more about the neurochemistry and pharmacology behind all of this. Like is it beneficial to mix something that binds strongly to 5hta2 with something that does the same for 5hta1 or whatever else or this would be a bad combo because it will bind to 5ht2c which is supposed to cause anxiety. I'm sure someone around here has far greater knowledge in this area than me 
tregar
Bluelighter
I've had about 12 trips (1 per month) all with mixing 25i-nbome with 300mg of mescaline hcl. The mescaline is divided into 3 seperate 100mg doses taken 1/2 hour apart (to effectively minimize any mescaline nausea to near zero). The hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed 525ug (micrograms) of 25i is taken right after dropping the second of the mescaline doses. The cyclodextrin complexed 25i is held under tongue for 20 minutes achieving 95% absorption (the entire tongue goes numb within 10 minutes of being placed under tongue). This is the only way I take 25i (with low dose mescaline)...as the combination trip effectively substitutes for real LSD, I had been taking acid for well over a decade, and both of us are unable to tell the difference between a mescaline/25i combination trip and real acid, the combination is that good....The mescaline is in fact "needed" due to it's 5-HT1A and 5-HT1E agonism.
The 5-HT1 receptors make up the majority of 5-HT receptors in the brain. The trip becomes 100% mind-manifesting and extremely visual/audial/spiritual. High spiritual mind states, memory access, full-blow artistic appreciation, complex archaic imagery, closed eye brightly neon colored scenes of foreign lands, architecture, art, you name it are seen in all their majestic beauty. Unfortunately, like many man-made psychedelics, 25i does not antogonize any of the 5-HT1 receptors, but with the addition of the mescaline, you get the full receptor "melt-down", "serotonin-firing" is turned off by 5-HT1 receptor activation, which is extremely important in a mind-manifesting psychedelic trip, the trip also becomes very laid-back, meditative, highly spiritual, deeply philosophical & insightful, but most of all incredible and hyper-dimensional with the addition of the mescaline, never overlook the importance of 5-HT1 agonism.
These combo's are not recommended unless you have lots of experience on taking each of the components on their own individually for quite some time, to gauge a feel for the proper dosage of each. 5-HT1 agonism provided by the mescaline (or other 5-HT1 agonist) also lowers blood pressure and serves to counteract the 5-HT2A stimulating agonism from the 25i, yin & yang for a balanced physical state as well. All of the natural God/nature made psychedelics like Mescaline, psilocybin and the semi-synthetic LSD agonize the 5-HT1 receptors with much more strength then they do the 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C receptors, that's how important they are to the trip.
The 5-HT1 receptors make up the majority of 5-HT receptors in the brain. The trip becomes 100% mind-manifesting and extremely visual/audial/spiritual. High spiritual mind states, memory access, full-blow artistic appreciation, complex archaic imagery, closed eye brightly neon colored scenes of foreign lands, architecture, art, you name it are seen in all their majestic beauty. Unfortunately, like many man-made psychedelics, 25i does not antogonize any of the 5-HT1 receptors, but with the addition of the mescaline, you get the full receptor "melt-down", "serotonin-firing" is turned off by 5-HT1 receptor activation, which is extremely important in a mind-manifesting psychedelic trip, the trip also becomes very laid-back, meditative, highly spiritual, deeply philosophical & insightful, but most of all incredible and hyper-dimensional with the addition of the mescaline, never overlook the importance of 5-HT1 agonism.
These combo's are not recommended unless you have lots of experience on taking each of the components on their own individually for quite some time, to gauge a feel for the proper dosage of each. 5-HT1 agonism provided by the mescaline (or other 5-HT1 agonist) also lowers blood pressure and serves to counteract the 5-HT2A stimulating agonism from the 25i, yin & yang for a balanced physical state as well. All of the natural God/nature made psychedelics like Mescaline, psilocybin and the semi-synthetic LSD agonize the 5-HT1 receptors with much more strength then they do the 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C receptors, that's how important they are to the trip.
tregar
Bluelighter
Thomas Ray's paper is a fairly good resource for psychedelic receptor data, good way to hunt down other 5-HT1 agonist if mescaline is not available:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009019
Other compounds that would work in place of mescaline to hit lots of the 5-HT1 receptors and even the transcendental 5-HT7 (5-HT6 hit by 25i is quite similar) receptor are:
5-MEO-DMT
5-MEO-MIPT
4-ACO-DIPT
However, many of the above compounds are illegal in many countries
other options:
4-ACO-DMT (looks like a great candidate in very low dose, else make this dose larger and 25i dose very low)
etc.
In countries where the above are not illegal? should really consider theoretically taking advantage of adding some potent low-dose 5-HT1 agonist into the 25i-nbome mix, this difference is like night and day, it is sooooo much better, if you love LSD trips (100% mind manifesting) you will love combining the nbome with 5-HT1 agonist, LSD also hits a large amount of the 5-HT1 receptors, see below.
4.00=maximum affinity for the receptor site:
5-MeO-DMT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.69 5ht7, 3.48 5ht1d, 2.73 5ht6, 2.41 5ht1b, 2.38 D1, 1.84 5ht5a, 1.72 5ht1e, 1.58 D3, 1.57 Alpha2C, 1.55 5ht2c, 1.00 Alpha2A, 0.98 5ht2a, 0.97 SERT, 0.88 Imidazoline1, 0.86 Alpha2B, 0.82 NET, 0.78 D4, 0.73 D2, 0.69 5ht2b; 0.00: Alpha1B, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, D5, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, CB2, KOR, Ca+Channel, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H2, CB1; ND: H1, DOR, MOR, NMDA
-----------------
Mescaline: 4.00 Alpha2C, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 Imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 Alpha2A; 0.00: 5ht2a, 5ht2c, 5ht6, 5ht1d, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, Alpha1A, Alpha1B, 5ht5a, Alpha2B, 5ht7, Beta1, Beta2, SERT, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
-------------------
Psilocin: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.40 5ht1d, 3.37 D1, 3.03 5ht1e, 2.88 5ht1a, 2.83 5ht5a, 2.82 5ht7, 2.82 5ht6, 2.67 D3, 2.52 5ht2c, 2.19 5ht1b, 2.14 5ht2a, 1.77 Imidazoline1, 1.74 SERT, 1.57 Alpha2B, 1.36 Alpha2A, 1.03 Alpha2C; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D4, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, NET, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, Ca+Channel, H1, H2, CB2, CB1; ND: M5, NMDA
---------------------
5-MeO-MIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.79 5ht7, 3.74 5ht1d, 3.32 5ht2b, 2.98 5ht6, 2.85 Alpha2A, 2.61 5ht1b, 2.44 5ht2a, 2.29 Alpha2C, 2.15 Imidazoline1, 2.13 Sigma2, 2.11 5ht5a, 1.86 Alpha2B, 1.75 5ht2c, 1.70 D3, 1.55 5ht1e, 1.41 H1, 1.29 D4, 1.28 SERT; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D1, Beta2, NET, DAT, Sigma1, Beta1, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, NMDA, Ca+Channel; ND: CB1
---------------------
DIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.53 Imidazoline1, 3.48 5ht2b, 2.98 SERT, 2.83 Sigma1, 2.68 Alpha2C, 2.65 Sigma2, 2.62 Alpha2B, 2.56 D3, 2.55 5ht7, 2.53 H1, 2.51 5ht1d; 0.00: 5ht2a, D4, 5ht5a, D1, D2, Alpha2A, 5ht6, D5, Beta1, Beta2, 5ht2c, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Alpha1B, 5ht1e, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
----------------------
LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5ht2a, 3.16 D3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 Alpha2A, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 D2, 2.39 D4, 2.34 D1, 2.05 D5, 1.54 Alpha1A, 1.40 H1, 1.39 Beta1, 1.05 Beta2, 0.65 Alpha1B; 0.00: KOR, DOR, DAT, SERT, MOR, NET; ND: Sigma2, Alpha2B, Alpha2C, Imidazoline1, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Sigma1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
-----------------------
For example:
25i-nbome agonizes the following receptors [the lower the number, the greater the affinity]
5-HT2A (0.044), 5-HT2C (2), 5-HT6 (73), 5-HT2B (231), u opiate (82), kappa opiate [288]
mescaline agonizes the following receptors [4.00 = maximum affinity, 0.00 = no affinity]:
Alpha2c (4.00), 5-HT2B (3.97), 5-HT1A (3.61) Imidazoline1 (3.44), 5-HT1E (3.16), alpha 2a (2.92)
therefore, mescaline + 25i looks like:
5-HT2A, Alpha2c, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT6, u opiate, kappa opiate, Imidazoline1, alpha2a.
*** Also note that 25i-nbome is the most potent 5-HT2A agonist discovered, 5-HT2A agonism while being highly visual & holding high behavioral & empathogenic characteristics, also causes a bit of low level stimulation & raises blood pressure, 5-HT1 agonism on the other hand lowers blood pressure and has a meditative, serene, tranquil, calming quality, so combining the two serves a yin & yang purpose, to balance each other out. I would never combine 25i with LSD because LSD is allready a very potent 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C receptor agonist. 25i is 100 times more potent at the 5-HT2A site than even LSD! This was shown by Nichols in his paper on 25i.
4-aco-dmt sounds like it will fully replace mescaline in combination with 25i, so long of course as the 4-aco-dmt dose is kept moderate in comparison to an added in very low dose of 25i, this ensures that all the 5-HT1 receptors are hit with more strength then the 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, ensuring that it will give psychedelic effects just like LSD, LSD also hits 5-HT1 and 5-HT7 and 5 other receptors with way more strength than 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, this ensures a mind-manifesting trip that is the opposite of an "in your face" trip which so often occurs with many synthetic man-made psychedelics like DOC, DOI, DOM, 2-CE, etc. which way overstress 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C over anything else, this in turn can cause lack of spiritual insight, too much body load, too much and run-away stimulation in comparison to sedating tranquil qualities, difficult trips, etc.
25i-nbome recaptures the overflowing empathy and euphoric qualities of LSD to a "T", i've used it enough times to know this for sure, this quality was also found to be inherent to 25i by Erny as well, the good humor, the overflowing empathy, this is the shared mindspace between 25i and LSD, it is a trait of high 5-HT2A & 5-HTC agonism, 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C agonism is also responsible for in depth behavioral qualities along with visual presentation. Adding this into the tryptamine trip (keep tryptamine dose high so that it is not "over-ridden" with 5-HT2A/HT2C agonims from 25i, keep in balance!) at a very very low dose, should serve to accentuate the empathetic, behavioral and visual qualites of any psychedelic trip, analogous to the overflowing joy-ous empathogenic LSD trip. So keep the tryptamine dose high (or mescaline dose for that matter if being used) yet add back in "just a touch of love" from the 25i with a very very low dose.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009019
Other compounds that would work in place of mescaline to hit lots of the 5-HT1 receptors and even the transcendental 5-HT7 (5-HT6 hit by 25i is quite similar) receptor are:
5-MEO-DMT
5-MEO-MIPT
4-ACO-DIPT
However, many of the above compounds are illegal in many countries
other options:
4-ACO-DMT (looks like a great candidate in very low dose, else make this dose larger and 25i dose very low)
etc.
In countries where the above are not illegal? should really consider theoretically taking advantage of adding some potent low-dose 5-HT1 agonist into the 25i-nbome mix, this difference is like night and day, it is sooooo much better, if you love LSD trips (100% mind manifesting) you will love combining the nbome with 5-HT1 agonist, LSD also hits a large amount of the 5-HT1 receptors, see below.
4.00=maximum affinity for the receptor site:
5-MeO-DMT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.69 5ht7, 3.48 5ht1d, 2.73 5ht6, 2.41 5ht1b, 2.38 D1, 1.84 5ht5a, 1.72 5ht1e, 1.58 D3, 1.57 Alpha2C, 1.55 5ht2c, 1.00 Alpha2A, 0.98 5ht2a, 0.97 SERT, 0.88 Imidazoline1, 0.86 Alpha2B, 0.82 NET, 0.78 D4, 0.73 D2, 0.69 5ht2b; 0.00: Alpha1B, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, D5, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, CB2, KOR, Ca+Channel, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H2, CB1; ND: H1, DOR, MOR, NMDA
-----------------
Mescaline: 4.00 Alpha2C, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 Imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 Alpha2A; 0.00: 5ht2a, 5ht2c, 5ht6, 5ht1d, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, Alpha1A, Alpha1B, 5ht5a, Alpha2B, 5ht7, Beta1, Beta2, SERT, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, H1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
-------------------
Psilocin: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.40 5ht1d, 3.37 D1, 3.03 5ht1e, 2.88 5ht1a, 2.83 5ht5a, 2.82 5ht7, 2.82 5ht6, 2.67 D3, 2.52 5ht2c, 2.19 5ht1b, 2.14 5ht2a, 1.77 Imidazoline1, 1.74 SERT, 1.57 Alpha2B, 1.36 Alpha2A, 1.03 Alpha2C; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D4, Beta2, Beta1, DAT, NET, Alpha1A, Sigma1, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, Ca+Channel, H1, H2, CB2, CB1; ND: M5, NMDA
---------------------
5-MeO-MIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.79 5ht7, 3.74 5ht1d, 3.32 5ht2b, 2.98 5ht6, 2.85 Alpha2A, 2.61 5ht1b, 2.44 5ht2a, 2.29 Alpha2C, 2.15 Imidazoline1, 2.13 Sigma2, 2.11 5ht5a, 1.86 Alpha2B, 1.75 5ht2c, 1.70 D3, 1.55 5ht1e, 1.41 H1, 1.29 D4, 1.28 SERT; 0.00: D2, Alpha1B, D5, D1, Beta2, NET, DAT, Sigma1, Beta1, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, NMDA, Ca+Channel; ND: CB1
---------------------
DIPT: 4.00 5ht1a, 3.53 Imidazoline1, 3.48 5ht2b, 2.98 SERT, 2.83 Sigma1, 2.68 Alpha2C, 2.65 Sigma2, 2.62 Alpha2B, 2.56 D3, 2.55 5ht7, 2.53 H1, 2.51 5ht1d; 0.00: 5ht2a, D4, 5ht5a, D1, D2, Alpha2A, 5ht6, D5, Beta1, Beta2, 5ht2c, DAT, NET, 5ht1b, Alpha1B, 5ht1e, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
----------------------
LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5ht2a, 3.16 D3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 Alpha2A, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 D2, 2.39 D4, 2.34 D1, 2.05 D5, 1.54 Alpha1A, 1.40 H1, 1.39 Beta1, 1.05 Beta2, 0.65 Alpha1B; 0.00: KOR, DOR, DAT, SERT, MOR, NET; ND: Sigma2, Alpha2B, Alpha2C, Imidazoline1, M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, Sigma1, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
-----------------------
For example:
25i-nbome agonizes the following receptors [the lower the number, the greater the affinity]
5-HT2A (0.044), 5-HT2C (2), 5-HT6 (73), 5-HT2B (231), u opiate (82), kappa opiate [288]
mescaline agonizes the following receptors [4.00 = maximum affinity, 0.00 = no affinity]:
Alpha2c (4.00), 5-HT2B (3.97), 5-HT1A (3.61) Imidazoline1 (3.44), 5-HT1E (3.16), alpha 2a (2.92)
therefore, mescaline + 25i looks like:
5-HT2A, Alpha2c, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT6, u opiate, kappa opiate, Imidazoline1, alpha2a.
*** Also note that 25i-nbome is the most potent 5-HT2A agonist discovered, 5-HT2A agonism while being highly visual & holding high behavioral & empathogenic characteristics, also causes a bit of low level stimulation & raises blood pressure, 5-HT1 agonism on the other hand lowers blood pressure and has a meditative, serene, tranquil, calming quality, so combining the two serves a yin & yang purpose, to balance each other out. I would never combine 25i with LSD because LSD is allready a very potent 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C receptor agonist. 25i is 100 times more potent at the 5-HT2A site than even LSD! This was shown by Nichols in his paper on 25i.
4-aco-dmt sounds like it will fully replace mescaline in combination with 25i, so long of course as the 4-aco-dmt dose is kept moderate in comparison to an added in very low dose of 25i, this ensures that all the 5-HT1 receptors are hit with more strength then the 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, ensuring that it will give psychedelic effects just like LSD, LSD also hits 5-HT1 and 5-HT7 and 5 other receptors with way more strength than 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C are hit, this ensures a mind-manifesting trip that is the opposite of an "in your face" trip which so often occurs with many synthetic man-made psychedelics like DOC, DOI, DOM, 2-CE, etc. which way overstress 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C over anything else, this in turn can cause lack of spiritual insight, too much body load, too much and run-away stimulation in comparison to sedating tranquil qualities, difficult trips, etc.
25i-nbome recaptures the overflowing empathy and euphoric qualities of LSD to a "T", i've used it enough times to know this for sure, this quality was also found to be inherent to 25i by Erny as well, the good humor, the overflowing empathy, this is the shared mindspace between 25i and LSD, it is a trait of high 5-HT2A & 5-HTC agonism, 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C agonism is also responsible for in depth behavioral qualities along with visual presentation. Adding this into the tryptamine trip (keep tryptamine dose high so that it is not "over-ridden" with 5-HT2A/HT2C agonims from 25i, keep in balance!) at a very very low dose, should serve to accentuate the empathetic, behavioral and visual qualites of any psychedelic trip, analogous to the overflowing joy-ous empathogenic LSD trip. So keep the tryptamine dose high (or mescaline dose for that matter if being used) yet add back in "just a touch of love" from the 25i with a very very low dose.
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tregar
Bluelighter
I've since gone on to use mescaline only by itself at higher doses, 450mg of mescaline hcl by itself was equivalent to 150 micrograms of acid, and beautiful revelation of an experience. I don't use 25i-nbome with mescaline at all anymore, since they are both stimulants....mescaline is so perfect in every way all on it's own at doses above 350mg.
However, i recently combined a 10gram extract of morning glory with 200ug (very very low-dose) 25i-nbome...and it was a beautiful experience equivalent to about 75 to 100ug of acid, top notch, and one that I will definately be exploring again.
Two papers I have show that elymoclavine and agroclavine combined alkaloids make up about 43% of morning glory alkaloids, studies from 1958 show that elymoclavine and agroclavine stimulated 5 different types of animals even more than LSD did.....the other 7% is made up of chanoclavine....and the other 48% or so is made up of sedating LSA and ergometrine which are heavy sedatives, and in which nature may have planted in there to counteract the stimulation from the elymoclavaine and agroclavine....recent radioligand studies shows that agroclavine is active at 5-ht1A, 5-HT2, dopamine and many other receptors similar to LSD.
I soaked 10 grams of heavenly blue which had been blended to dust in a coffee grinder....were added to 1oz of 95% freezing cold drinkable grain alcohol along with 1 500mg crushed vitamin C tablet. Agroclavine and elymoclavine are actually quite soluble in alcohol, but only sparingly soluble in water, the everclear did an excellent job of extracting these active alkaloids from the seeds. The 10g of seed dust had sat in the everclear in the freezer over 24 hours, and was swirled about 5 times during a day and put back into freezer. Foil covered the 1/2 pint jar to keep it light proof. The vitamin C helps to lower the ph, convert the alkaloids to soluble salts, and act as an antioxidant to keep any oxygen from doing any damage to the alkaloids, the brew keeps well this way, it blew away any previous water extractions I had ever done.
The 10g mg extract brew combined with very very low dose of 25i-nbome (to counteract any LSA sedation) added in later was a trip quite similar to actual acid, just more organic in nature.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/245679-More-on-D-lysergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide/page3
hxxp://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/245679-More-on-D-lysergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide/page3
post #51 & #53
However, i recently combined a 10gram extract of morning glory with 200ug (very very low-dose) 25i-nbome...and it was a beautiful experience equivalent to about 75 to 100ug of acid, top notch, and one that I will definately be exploring again.
Two papers I have show that elymoclavine and agroclavine combined alkaloids make up about 43% of morning glory alkaloids, studies from 1958 show that elymoclavine and agroclavine stimulated 5 different types of animals even more than LSD did.....the other 7% is made up of chanoclavine....and the other 48% or so is made up of sedating LSA and ergometrine which are heavy sedatives, and in which nature may have planted in there to counteract the stimulation from the elymoclavaine and agroclavine....recent radioligand studies shows that agroclavine is active at 5-ht1A, 5-HT2, dopamine and many other receptors similar to LSD.
I soaked 10 grams of heavenly blue which had been blended to dust in a coffee grinder....were added to 1oz of 95% freezing cold drinkable grain alcohol along with 1 500mg crushed vitamin C tablet. Agroclavine and elymoclavine are actually quite soluble in alcohol, but only sparingly soluble in water, the everclear did an excellent job of extracting these active alkaloids from the seeds. The 10g of seed dust had sat in the everclear in the freezer over 24 hours, and was swirled about 5 times during a day and put back into freezer. Foil covered the 1/2 pint jar to keep it light proof. The vitamin C helps to lower the ph, convert the alkaloids to soluble salts, and act as an antioxidant to keep any oxygen from doing any damage to the alkaloids, the brew keeps well this way, it blew away any previous water extractions I had ever done.
The 10g mg extract brew combined with very very low dose of 25i-nbome (to counteract any LSA sedation) added in later was a trip quite similar to actual acid, just more organic in nature.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/245679-More-on-D-lysergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide/page3
hxxp://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/245679-More-on-D-lysergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide/page3
post #51 & #53
IamMe90
Bluelighter
Why don't you just enjoy substances for what they are instead of trying fruitlessly to replicate acid through obscure combo after combo? Just do acid if you want an acid experience yo... lol.
cryptix420
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,417
I have combined 25i with several other substances, including MDMA, DXM, MXE (resulted in an extremely spiritual trip that ushered me into accepting that we have souls and kicking atheism), DPT (another incredibly spiritual trip, I felt I was given a vision of the future where technology was mankind's downfall, a la terminator 2), and most recently aMT. The aMT + 25i was...well I can't sum it up in this post, which is why I am in the process of writing a trip report for it. If I could call any trip life changing, it would be that one.