(25C-NBOMe/500 µg) First time: Van-Goghian masterpiece

[amanitadine]

^^^ I found it to be just as effective (if not more) as insufflation.

 

[B9]

^It's been reported as active in the big and dandy thread (by Nuke, I think). I assume it's on par with insufflation.

Thanks I read through that but my interpretation was that the solution mentioned by Nuke was a mixture of the psychedelic + other chemicals to increase absorption, I don't have those chems.


@amanitadine did you simply make up a solution of water + the drug ?

 

[amanitadine]

^^ Yup. An empty gut, a few mls of water, and 450mg of 25C HCl was a very full +3 that was as effective (or even slightly moreso) as the same amount taken intranasally. Much easier in all honesty, no worries about absorbing it all. The come up is very quick and can be a bit disconcerting to the uninitiated. It comes on so strong that you may wonder if you weighed/measured correctly, so check, check, and check again before "inserting". Fabulous fun these N-Benzyl PEAS.....

Cheers

 

[reformer]

450mg of 25C HCl ... you may wonder if you weighed/measured correctly, so check, check, and check again

Just making the somewhat obvious confirmation that you meant micrograms (mcg; ug) and not really "mg".

450 mg would have someone questioning a lot more than their scale. More like whether they will live.

 

[amanitadine]

^^^ yup, mcg indeed. thankfully :D

 

[B9]

I found the come up a little wobbly on the legs and there was some mental distraction for the first 90 minutes blending into two hours from whence it became delighfully smooth, perfectly poised, elegant perhaps. I'm typing this three and a half hours after nasal ingestion of 500mcs. At no time did the experience exceed a +2 and it has definitely plateaued by this point.

 

[Dondante]

Interesting...did any of the solution go down your throat? And by +2, you mean you could have gone about your typical daily routine had you desired to do so?

 

[B9]

I wouldn't have said it would have been wise to drive a car or have a serious discussion within the first two hours but after that certainly I found I was capable of carrying out my usual daily tasks. I had however eaten about 60mgs of 2CB ( something I'd forgotton about until now) 6 days earlier & perhaps this may have caused a little tolerance ????
No solution went down my throat, it was carefully administered by my wife in droplets as I lay with my head facing slightly downhill on the sunlit bank of a babbling stream in warm sunshine.
After I wrote the above post I found myself in a really pleasant state of relaxation, laid back & in good humour with no thinking happening, I just drank in the scenery & threw the ball for my dog for about 90 minutes, did a few chores around the house then went & bought a couple of beers and drank them while watching football with my kids.
i liked it, I'd have preferred a stronger effect, it made me sort of giggly for the first half hour & I understand what you meant by your description of the drug suffusing from cell to cell after ingestion. I'd have preferred it to be deeper emotionally, that is not to say it has no emotional depth just not as much as I like.
The effect was definitely unique it has advantages over the the 2Cxxs in that there is no bodyload issues, I thoroughly tested that out by immediately eating salad & a sandwich after taking the drug. There's only mild sexual enhancement caused IMO, I also tested this out within the first hour.
All in all it's a worthwhile and unique drug, I don't think the rave & party crowd would take it to there hearts but I liked it, I was especially impressed by the almost meditative state I experienced for several hours which was a welcome break from the incessant chatter of my mind.

Thanks to those who created & dispensed this stuff

 

[specialspack]

Excellent report this, good work Dondante.

How does one go about applying such a small amount of liquid intranasally? It sounds like it would be hit and miss getting it onto the membrane and keeping it there.

I've never tried rectal administration of any drug, but it would seem like the sensible ROA for such tiny amounts.

 

[B9]

We used a 0.25ml lab syringe, We added 150 microlitres of water to a vial containing 0.5mgs of the drug. This was stood in a cup of very hot water until it was dissolved, it was then kept warm for a short journey & droplets ( dunno what the technical description of a droplet is but I mean before they break the surface tension & fall off the end of the tip ) were dabbed carefully onto the surface of the membranes in each nostril. 150mcs of water was the smallest amount we found it viable to work with.
Didn't encounter any problems with administration & keeping it where I wanted it, however you might have hassle if you don't have as accurate a dispenser as we do.


And hallo specialspack

 

[specialspack]

Hello, sir!

Thanks for that, it's very enlightening. Would sub-lingual dosing work for this too? That was my approach on my sole bromo-dragonfly experience.

 

[Dondante]

Sublingual is an option. I made a post here about my experience with 750 µg sublingual. Slower come-up, less potent by somewhere around 50% when compared with nasal admin.

B9, the 2C-B may have resulted in some tolerance, but it may also be that I'm just more sensitive to 5-HT2A psychedelics, judging by your choice of a 60 mg dose of 2C-B...that's very high IMO.

Another consideration is that the effectiveness of nasal administration depends on a number of factors. First of all, I dropped the solution rather deep into my nose (I assume directly onto the olfactory mucosa) which allows direct penetration of the CNS without having to cross the blood-brain barrier. The olfactory mucosa is a pretty large area located in the upper nasal cavity, just below the cribriform plate of the skull. Molecules dispensed here are able to diffuse very quickly through the olfactory neurons directly into the brain. This would explain how I was off baseline in less than 2 minutes.

Administering onto the nasal turbinates or the lower part of the nasal cavity, which both carry a rich blood supply, would result in rapid diffusion into the bloodstream, but would probably not have such a quick onset. This route would not bypass the BBB. Finally, if one were to administer just inside the nostrils, the blood supply isn't as good there and the absorption would be poor. Some other things that could affect absorption would be increased mucous (which would decrease absorption) or use of a decongestant (which would decrease blood flow, and therefore, decrease absorption).

 

[specialspack]

^ That picture makes my skin crawl... something about the combination of cartilage and capillaries in the nose makes me very squeamish!

I didn't realise it was possible to bypass the BBB via insufflation..? I assume that snorting powdered substances of any kind deposits quite a bit on the olfactory mucosa - so by that logic wouldn't we see that insufflation gave faster onset than smoking? I'm not aware of any substance that behaves like that.

 

[amanitadine]

Beautiful image Dondante. And while I am surprised B9 didn't get more dramatic effects from 500mcg intranasal I also am not. There seems to be wide variation in response to these N-Benzyl PEAS from person to person as well as from time to time, at least in my experience. I've used 4 different subs now (the Cl, I, B, and methyl) by 4 different ROAS (IM, IN, SL, and rectal) in several different combinations (a total of 15-20 times over the past year) and while I am much closer to consistent results I still am often surprised. There seems to be a lot of factors at play. IM or rectal are by far the most predictable but even these can throw you a wild card as speed of absorbtion is paramount here. ("matter" in the bowels or muscle fat really changes things IME)

 

[Dondante]

I didn't realise it was possible to bypass the BBB via insufflation..? I assume that snorting powdered substances of any kind deposits quite a bit on the olfactory mucosa - so by that logic wouldn't we see that insufflation gave faster onset than smoking? I'm not aware of any substance that behaves like that.

Good question.

I'm way out of my league here, so this is just speculation...

First of all, most of an insufflated substance will enter the bloodstream. Even if dropped directly onto the olfactory mucosa, I'm willing to bet that the majority will diffuse into the rich capillary beds and get carried in the venous system back to the right side of the heart. From there, it will have to take the conventional route through the pulmonary circulation back to the left side of the heart, and then into the systemic arterial circulation. A small portion of the systemic circulation gets routed through the internal carotid arteries, and a small portion of that circulation actually has the ability to diffuse though the BBB and get into the brain. The onset of insufflation is limited by particulate size, absorptive surface area, lipid solubility, molecular size, and no doubt many other factors. In most cases, the infamous drip will also result in some being absorbed (or not) via the GI tract. In comparison, vaporized or aerosolized drugs have a shorter route since they start their journey in the lungs, plus there's a huge surface area for absorption and very small particulate size. That's my (probably naive) understanding of the basics of insufflation vs. inhalation.

In addition, however, insufflation allows lipid soluble drugs to enter via a more direct route. In the case of 2C-C-NBOMe, its lipid solubility likely allows some of the drug to diffuse directly into the CNS via the olfactory neurons. Maybe only 10% takes this route, but it is enough to feel an effect very quickly. Because it's diffusing locally, I think it's possible that you could achieve higher peak levels of the drug in the CNS via this method than with I.M. admin.

"Multiple authors demonstrate that the nose-brain pathway leads to nearly immediate delivery of some nasal medications to the cerebral spinal fluid, by-passing the blood brain barrier (Source)."

 

[B9]

Dondante - I think the 2CB may have played a part, I say this because my timeline of effects seems to have been shorter than yours & I find that is a good indicator of tolerance being present.
Admittedly I've never tried the drug but other PEAs react that way with me so I'd think it reasonably likely.
As to effects in general - it's been my experience that I can take a drug from the same batch and get largely the same strength of effect & length of action, however now & then the same dose will floor me, this isn't something I've ever been able to pin down to factors such as tolerance - I speculate this & that but all I can say is that what does happen to me occassionally is a marked increase in effect from the same dosage.
In some cases people think my dosages are quite large but for sure I often seem to get less effect than the other people I usually trip with, so I'd guess that unfortunately some kind of natural tolerance exists or maybe I just fried my brain a little too much, probably a bit of both.
Anyway I reckon it's a good chemical, not everything needs to be fireworks night to be pleasurable.
I'm tempted to plug it next time in a larger amount of water just to see.

 

[Fishface]

I had however eaten about 60mgs of 2CB ( something I'd forgotton about until now) 6 days earlier & perhaps this may have caused a little tolerance ????

Doubt it - my experience (500mg plugged) was very similar to yours, if a little less 'active', and I haven't touched anything (other than moderate intake of alcohol and hash) for over a month

Thanks to those who created & dispensed this stuff

Seconded.

 

[B9]

I think it might be worth trying at higher dosages just to see, there's a lot of positive reports on the series and from what I've read the sensitivity seems to vary from individual to individual. Perhaps the middle aged hippies have less good stuff in the brain or the connections are wearing out ?
I do seem fairly resistant to phenethylamines much less so to tryptamines & psychedelic amphetamines

 

[Fishface]

Perhaps the middle aged hippies have less good stuff in the brain or the connections are wearing out ?

You could well be right, young'un

 

[Dondante]

I've tried this compound two more times since this report, one time via sublingual and more recently via buccal absorption. Neither has quite measured up to the first experience. Set and setting may have played a big role, although the setting for the second trip was pretty idyllic. The third was at a My Morning Jacket show, which has been complimented very well with psychedelics in the past. The dose for the second and third trips were around 750 mcg, and they were of similar intensity, but both peaks were lower than my first trip with 500 mcg intranasal, at least in the perceptual effects. Cognitively, I felt similarly impaired. Thinking coherently (and talking) proved very difficult. During much of the third experience, I felt strangely self-conscious and awkward, though I was still able to enjoy the show. Being in a large crowd seemed less than ideal. Lastly, the trip kept me up much longer than expected or desired (10 hours) though I should have known better based on past experiences. I mentioned in my report that I thought this compound could lend itself to a productive state of introspection or to genuine insight, but I have yet to experience such a state. I'll give it another try someday, but I'll probably change up the compound the next time I trip...and I'm not planning on tripping very often at all anymore (once a year maybe), so it could be a while.

Happy trails!