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2024 US Presidential Election

"If there were good people in that crowd they should have got TF out"

There were no good people in the crowd. That is straight nazi talk. Sure Germany "we were were nazi's but not all the people fighting on the nazi side we're bad people!"

Probably not, stupid people and 'want to fit' at any cost people: Do we really need them?
 
Hell no. I hate MI. Remember the context of those posts. The people are horrible fakes and social climbers. No I ill not admit I love MI; as you know Im lookin for a way out. I do have to admit the pot prices are one hell of a fringe. I assume that is just MI being greedy. The THC #'s are clearly inflated, they pressure the labs to inflate the #'s or go to labs that will. I don't even like our gov and im a staunch dem.

If that were true it MAY be a form of nationalism. But it simply isn't. I am often quoted begrudgingly quoted for saying "Fuck buying local".

I just know that we are in a forum where most people here lean hard left (me included) and didn't want to turn this into an everyone jump on the Trump voter type of thing. Based on previous conversations you deserve more respect.

He will end the war in Ukraine? How by siding with Putin and letting him attack nato allies? no thats more war. So I guess the premise I am getting is Trump can cause peace in the middle east? I remember hearing Joe Biden one week saying he hoped for a ceasefire by monday *months ago* I burst out laughing..... That isn't a fixable situation. Exploitable maye but that is much different.

You see ending NATO as a positive thing? Agree to disagree. China, I doubt it; when his lips are moving. (no wall is any easy one). I didn't sleep with that pornstar. He Straight lied to the American people all night long. I found that insulting. He absolutely called those soldiers losers and suckers. Charlotville happened and those weren't good people.

He is TRYING REAL HARD TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT -- Of course until the election; than its the same meglomaniac emboldened with yes men for gaurd rails. He has been sued for racism in 1963, if you read the case it was as clear racism as it gets.

Corporate tax cuts don't benefit us and the price of goods, china tariff thing thing wouldn't either?

Damn I wish I was in Canada. Screw MI lol
 
I don't like the UP at all. Let me show some restraint. MQT MI (largest city in the UP) adopted "Joe Arpaio's" LE policies. I believe only one other city (other than maricopa and MQT) went for that. (ask me for a link if you want this was a long time ago)

Fire&Water -- If you didn't see my all too telling rant about the "Yoop" and want to message me.

Ill start with these bullet points: A man starved to death in jail in the county I live in. It is a no medication AT ALL local jail; you can imagine how that works. "Starved to death"
who
The police also gunned down an UNARMED 19 yr old in munising in the last decade. That is after he totaled his car and got out stumbling with a BA of over .3 (If you are a cop and you can't handle a 19 yr old who just slammed a car into a tree at 90 MPH who has a .3 or over BA level; Lethal force, really LETHAL? You couldn't have tackled this kid? Ok he claimed to have a knife as he stumbled forward, lets say you believe him? Isn't this what the tazer is for??)

MI; especially the UP thrives almost entirely from $$ from Duke Life Point (only hospital system in UP); (the) University, and $$ derived from LE and incarceration. The worst prisoners in MI go to Marquette Max; my father almost got shot when he was like 12 as he bought a coat from goodwill and was in the forest when some prisoners escaped. Luckily he froze!! These three are all in bed together and it is quite the UNHOLY TRINITY. A triangle is the strongest shape and these three entities all work hand and hand together. (They would lose great amounts of $ if they didnt)

Let me just ask you this about the UP (and it is rhetorical) What is the very worst thing you have seen happen to someone who snitched; wired up and completely ruined many lives in the UP? They sent one into my house; three times I tell him I don't sell pot or know you. So the garbage company grabs my trashbags and (this was in the report) deduced anybody who would buy that many packs of zig zags MUST BE A DEALER. FULL SCALE PATRIOT ACT WARRANT RAID.. (I have this all in writing, IS THIS WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE?)

THAT IS YOUR YOOP. Duk3lifepolnt; lets talk about them for a second; They are in bed with the police in a lets do 'wellness check' type due process breaking agreement. (yes I have this on authority; some doctors are in pocket, a couple still have morals). The MI state police nodded affirmitively when I stated "They are holding *persons name* because they are corrupt and want to break due process" Two very vertical head nods and not a word. I know a 70 year old woman that was taken from INSIDE her house with NO WARRANT, NO STATED REASON, NO ARREST PAPERS. Just "Were comin in and if you try and stop us *hands go to hips, proceed to drag elderly citizen away* FOR THREE WEEKS. No charges were pressed against this person, she was NEVER ASSESSED BY A DOC before admittance *thats a law*, the nurses didn't really want to touch her as they were aware she had basically been kidnapped and they were in a highly vulnerable position. If your corrupt, everyone has to be corrupt. Preferably you aren't but thats not the world I've lived in.

That is a Human Rights Abuse Case. You aren't suppose to see those in civilized society.

The same like 5-7 families own the UP and they are corrupt in ways much dumber and less profitable than 'good criminals', but also much more insidious to non criminals than lets say the ish the detroit mob is doin. (I almost guarantee your thinking one of those last names right now F&W).

NMU had the lowest admissions in the country the year I GED'd in.

Negaunee was (In my lifetime) the INCEST CAPITAL of AMERICA.

The only bar I can get to only has "Local microbrew" on tap for 6 bux a drink. (that is ALOT in the up) I think im the first person ever to ask for a can of pabst. Gimme that sweet Detroit river beer, its cheap at least. (I dont think thats pabst but its one of the cheapies)

Te "support the UP; buy local is like a DAMN CULT HERE" whenever they do anything the public is funneled into outdoor winter dograces or buy beads and blueberries for EXPONENTIAL PRICES. IF you don't show your face at these events you simply will not be accepted into the community in a real way.

I will take Detroit over the UP all day long. I BEG YOU TO NOT LISTEN TO THAT ADVICE. The U.P Killed my dad and has me and my mom living as social outcasts. If you don't believe that is true; please message me and I'll take the kitten gloves off. I REST MY CASE FOR NOW.

*Also if you out my gov name to people in the UP; well dont I ask you not too. If you do I will leave it to karma. Karma acts swiftly in regards to me.
 
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So far the debate has not budged the polls except for one which has shown a Biden improvement. Still early, ya gotta give it a week after a debate, but I'll wager Beau knows (as usual).
 
Glad to hear it didn't move the polls too much. I didn't see alot of change. Other than biden not having his team to keep his brain on point.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
Glad to hear it didn't move the polls too much. I didn't see alot of change. Other than biden not having his team to keep his brain on point.
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Matt Gaetz (of all people) said it right, believe it or not. " Of course Biden has good days and bad. What if America needs a sharp President on one of his bad ones?"

And, there it is. The day to day would be fine. Reagan was diagnosed with severe Alzheimer's in his last term. But, a national emergency requiring immediate action would do better with a younger man. 'Course, Trump with his temperament would be much worse and might even create an emergency. We saw how he handled Covid, which didn't even require processing speed.

Biden is very experienced, but not being as fast as he once was got rattled by Trump's Gish Gallop.

"During a Gish gallop, in a short space of time the galloper confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies that makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of the debate.[2] Each point raised by the Gish galloper takes considerably more time to refute or to fact-check than the amount of time taken to state each one in the series. This technique is known online [3] as Brandolini's law and frequently is referred to as "the bullshit asymmetry principle"."

Gish gallop - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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^Agreed. Which is why you need to have a group of like minded people who are not "yes 'men". I believe (Based on all the calls for him to stepdown fom democratic leaders) that he is not surrounded by yes folk.

Thanks for the breakdown on gish gallop; good to learn somethin everyday.

So Biden has a senior day; someone tells him to let us handle it for the day. He says no because he is a stubborn irish catholic bastard. (so am I; I can say that lol). A whole group of his friends/cabinent members/w/e basically intervention his ass and tell him we are going to handle things. I would imagine at this point he relents. These are the guard rails.

I believe if Trump did not have some people who actually acted as guardrails that he very well may have flipped that election BY FORCE. Real proud of that Gov.. Even a little proud of the 40 out of 44 that didn't back him again. That is a loud statement. As is proximity effect, look at the polls in NY and DC (from last election results, now may be more accurate though) where people have to actually run into this dude. It is over 90/10 against him if I recall. Word is Miralago or w/e even hates him and wants him out. (now that I have nothing substantial to back up, just what I hear).

Trump has made it as sure as possibly that if he does win the presidency he has nothing but ass kissers and apologists. (bad news for him, ass kissers, yes men and apologizers fold real quick under actual threat of loss of freedom) WORSE NEWS FOR US; he will have NO GUARD RAILS THIS TIME.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
^Agreed. Which is why you need to have a group of like minded people who are not "yes 'men". I believe (Based on all the calls for him to stepdown fom democratic leaders) that he is not surrounded by yes folk.

Thanks for the breakdown on gish gallop; good to learn somethin everyday.

So Biden has a senior day; someone tells him to let us handle it for the day. He says no because he is a stubborn irish catholic bastard. (so am I; I can say that lol). A whole group of his friends/cabinent members/w/e basically intervention his ass and tell him we are going to handle things. I would imagine at this point he relents. These are the guard rails.

I believe if Trump did not have some people who actually acted as guardrails that he very well may have flipped that election BY FORCE. Real proud of that Gov.. Even a little proud of the 40 out of 44 that didn't back him again. That is a loud statement. As is proximity effect, look at the polls in NY and DC (from last election results, now may be more accurate though) where people have to actually run into this dude. It is over 90/10 against him if I recall. Word is Miralago or w/e even hates him and wants him out. (now that I have nothing substantial to back up, just what I hear).

Trump has made it as sure as possibly that if he does win the presidency he has nothing but ass kissers and apologists. (bad news for him, ass kissers, yes men and apologizers fold real quick under actual threat of loss of freedom) WORSE NEWS FOR US; he will have NO GUARD RAILS THIS TIME.
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And, I think Biden's plenty smart and experienced. It's the quick reactions that do suffer. He might not respond as quick as he should but wouldn't need a day.

Hell, we need younger people in all the offices. McConnell, Pelosi, the list goes on. Not as much for reaction times as for new ideas.

Yeah. Trump wants to stage a coup. He tried. You don't really need much else.
 
Right on^. I forget Im preaching to the choir here. Honestly I think Pelosi has a large part in his day to day actions (purely speculation) based on a live appearence he made (if anyone has the link help me out) where at the end of; well basically some incoherency he (what sounded to me) almost broke down into tears and stated "What should I do Nancy" or something to that effect. I found it telling.

I don't think it would take him a full day either minus an actual medical emergency. (which is a real possibility)

Sorry man didn't mean to paint you as a trump voter.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
Right on^. I forget Im preaching to the choir here. Honestly I think Pelosi has a large part in his day to day actions (purely speculation) based on a live appearence he made (if anyone has the link help me out) where at the end of; well basically some incoherency he (what sounded to me) almost broke down into tears and stated "What should I do Nancy" or something to that effect. I found it telling.

I don't think it would take him a full day either minus an actual medical emergency. (which is a real possibility)

Sorry man didn't mean to paint you as a trump voter.
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Lol. Didn't think you were. 👍
 
Haha I remember him having a very uphill battle. Despite a totally losing one. Didn't think you were a trump voter either; ya did put me on my backfoot for a second there though! Oh yea you are in Canada, which IMO is running much smoother... Good for you man.
 
Gish Gallop -- Thank you for that one. I have shut alot of mouths with it yesterday. Here debate me, we got two minutes each. I am 36 years old and have always supported anything the police have done. You voted against police bill 32c, YOU HATE AMERICA. As you remember I graduated with a 3.8 gpa. I have served on over 12 community service boards and improved the weather by writing my congressman. Meanwhile you have a wishy washy base. You wouldn't have had the guts to face up 32c. Do you really think your fit to do anything after your vp, candidate manager etc has been having an affair and taking tax payer money as a slush fund?

Ok you got two minutes go! proves the point quite well
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
Gish Gallop -- Thank you for that one. I have shut alot of mouths with it yesterday. Here debate me, we got two minutes each. I am 36 years old and have always supported anything the police have done. You voted against police bill 32c, YOU HATE AMERICA. As you remember I graduated with a 3.8 gpa. I have served on over 12 community service boards and improved the weather by writing my congressman. Meanwhile you have a wishy washy base. You wouldn't have had the guts to face up 32c. Do you really think your fit to do anything after your vp, candidate manager etc has been having an affair and taking tax payer money as a slush fund?

Ok you got two minutes go! proves the point quite well
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It's hard to debate against. A person explaining a bunch of things appears on the defensive and losing.

Not what you're doing, but a gish gallop often is characterized by many of the statements being untrue or half true. When I have to counter one, I pick the easiest thing to blow holes in and say, "Well, that's a lot of lies and I'd like to take time to discuss them all, but I'll pick one, blah, blah, blah." The galloper will try to throw a zillion things at you and side track you and you have to keep bringing it back to the easiest to disprove lie. You say, "Right now, we're talking about this lie." This isn't a perfect counter to a gish gallop, but it I don't know of one better. It blows a hole in the galloper's credibility and that's all you can do. It's a counter, but not a win.

The advantage you have is that if someone is using that "bullshit asymmetry principle" like Trump did, there will be at least one lie in the bunch that will be pretty easy to disprove.

So, be careful that you don't have even one thing which can be disproven in there in case someone uses this counter. Have fun.
 
that was laymens nonsense forsure; not an accurate attempt at ''gish gab'' as I don't plan to rely on that ever. I will take a more thorough look at the definition so I know a little more succinctly what is happening but my laymens interpratation is: 'Too much to refute in debate format so you are sure to miss or not adress the half truths, lies, and propaganda"

Ahh yes prove one thing in the gish gallop wrong and hope that people understand the rest are probably bullshit too; as a liar lies. Good tactic; people are getting so dumb/conformist though! Thank you for giving me a way to combat such bullshit. Altho my formal debate days are long over lol.

Thanks though man. You guys are more of an asset than the people around me. (be that good or bad) Minus my mother who is a historian and blunt AF.

Thanks though. Learning is good.
 
Complaining about Trump's debate tactics kind of misses the point. Yes, he has a certain way of distorting and rambling. I don't think it quite qualifies as a Gish gallop, because a Gish gallop is usually at least, you know, on topic, whereas Trump was asked three times "what would you do to help Americans struggling with addiction" and not once did he say anything even remotely related to the question. He also had some pretty hilarious gaffes, like we laughed out loud when he mentioned "the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country's life."

But.

None of that matters.

See, you may not realize it, but before Thursday, Donald Trump had never won a debate with a Democrat. I'm serious. Post-debate polls showed that Hillary Clinton won every single debate (by viewer ratings) in 2016 and Joe Biden won every debate in 2020. So the idea that it is somehow extremely difficult to beat Donald Trump in a debate simply does not hold water. What Joe Biden had to do was stand on stage for ninety minutes, have an interactive conversation with another human being, speak in something resembling coherent sentences, and not say things like this:

I should say in a ten-year period we'd be able to wipe out his debt. We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the with the Covid, excuse me, with, um, dealing with everything we have to do with, uh, look, if…we finally beat Medicare.
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Read it. Read all of it. This is what happened on Thursday. Joe Biden did not lose because of Donald Trump. Joe Biden lost because of Joe Biden. The transcript does not make it better. That's why he lost in post-debate polling by thirty points.
 
You are absolutely right. Trump hardly knew how a debate was formatted last time. Joe had the ball T'd up and he still wiffed. Cant blame anyone for that but him.

I wasn't aiming to complain about his debate tactics at all; I just found gish gallop a new and interesting concept and extrapolated.

Whoever is on the dem ticket is getting my presidential vote. Did I hear they granted presidential immunity? If so I don't see whats stopping joe from doing the obvious lol
 
I can't make peace with the president of the US being directly evil. (so moreso than others). Gotta do your best to prevent fascis"

Zelensky is more interesting -- In your opinion; Hero or Shill for a Russian Oligarch / Privbank apologist?
 
atara said:
Complaining about Trump's debate tactics kind of misses the point. Yes, he has a certain way of distorting and rambling. I don't think it quite qualifies as a Gish gallop, because a Gish gallop is usually at least, you know, on topic, whereas Trump was asked three times "what would you do to help Americans struggling with addiction" and not once did he say anything even remotely related to the question. He also had some pretty hilarious gaffes, like we laughed out loud when he mentioned "the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country's life."

But.

None of that matters.

See, you may not realize it, but before Thursday, Donald Trump had never won a debate with a Democrat. I'm serious. Post-debate polls showed that Hillary Clinton won every single debate (by viewer ratings) in 2016 and Joe Biden won every debate in 2020. So the idea that it is somehow extremely difficult to beat Donald Trump in a debate simply does not hold water. What Joe Biden had to do was stand on stage for ninety minutes, have an interactive conversation with another human being, speak in something resembling coherent sentences, and not say things like this:



Read it. Read all of it. This is what happened on Thursday. Joe Biden did not lose because of Donald Trump. Joe Biden lost because of Joe Biden. The transcript does not make it better. That's why he lost in post-debate polling by thirty points.
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Not complaining about Trump's tactic, just pointing it out. It's a dirty tactic that denies the audience real data, but optics do matter and a good politician needs to be a good debater and counter such tactics.

Joe Biden lost the debate. But Trump lied and didn't answer the questions enough for people to notice that (and I don't think a Gish gallop has to be on topic). Thus polling, even Fox polling is now showing that Biden is only down by three as a result.

www.foxnews.com

Debate gives Trump a bump over Biden, according to new national poll

Former President Trump has edged ahead of President Biden in the 2024 election rematch in the aftermath of last week's presidential debate, according to a new national poll.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Interesting that both are so low in approval. This will be an election where people vote against, not for.

All this is not complaining, it's (maybe over)analysis. And, yes it's from a place of hoping Biden wins the election. But, Biden lost the debate. He should have been able to counter that.
 
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