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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

2024 US Presidential Election

i agree to an extent but there was a criminal conspiracy to subvert the valid result of an election - pressure on state officials, false electors, etc. - and an attempt to prevent the peaceful transition of power.

and many people who believe they are patriots support the wannabe autocrat responsible.

and they do it because, presumably, they believe he'll make things better for them when he demonstrably only gives a shit about himself.

they should stop to ask themselves why their "billionaire" messiah is in their texts and emails begging them for money.

it's beyond fucked.

alasdair
 
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alasdairm said:
in 2020 trump was all about banning tiktok.

today he's publicly against banning it.

as we're told he's a real straight shooter so you always know where he stands on issues. demonstrably false.

but why this flip flop?

could it be because he's not as rich as he'd like people to believe and he's desperately courting people for cash. people like jeff yass?

draw your own conclusions.

alasdair
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People change their minds sometimes.

And id see pigs fly before we know with certainty the reason at such a complex role (president of a country)
 
alasdairm said:
is there still a problem in the middle east?

in 2020 trump put his best man on the job of resolving the middle east conflict - jared kushner. in september that year, kushner claimed the work he was doing was responsible for the "beginning of the end of the Israel-Arab conflict." he went on to say, of the israeli-palestinian conflict that "Those issues aren’t as complicated as people have made them out to be."

so i naturally assumed this was all wrapped up by now...

alasdair
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There was peace during that time, then we change to Biden and violence erupts. Coincidence? Or weakness on the world stage?
Obama, then Trump, wanted to pull out of Afghanistan but didn't because of the instability it would create. Biden pulls us out, badly. How has that fared for us since? Weakness on the world stage?
Putin invaded Ukraine under Obama and experienced no repurcussions. During Trump? No trouble out of Russia. Biden? Ukraine fucked again. Coincidence? Or weakness on the world stage?
You have such a hard on against Trump you are singlularly focsued to the exclusion of reality on some things. Bottom line is, the world was safer under Trump. Under Biden we have been fools losing power globally.


alasdairm said:
and many people who believe they are patriots support the wannabe autocrat responsible.

and they do it because, presumably, they believe he'll make things better for them when he demonstrably only gives a shit about himself.

they should stop to ask themselves why their "billionaire" messiah is in their texts and emails begging them for money.
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Very simple question, how are you/we/theworld today vs 3y ago? Which has shown to be the better POTUS (since we seem stuck with these two retreads, but at least that provides some track record on each by which we can compare)?

Globally:
How many wars were we in under each? How many conflicts started up under each?
How much aid are we sending to other countries?

Domestic:
How was inflation running?
Were Americans concerned about the right priorities (cost of groceries, school indoctrination, educational debt, etc)? Somewhat subjective, as everyone has their own priorities, naturally. But for an average Joe or Jane, were they dealing with what was important to them, or having other people put 'other' priorities upon them to try and confront?

Personally (the American individual):
Where was general average Joe or Jane's level of anxiety? Confidence in their future?
Did young people feel they had a future? Or did they feel they'll never own a home, never get out of debt, never get the life they hoped for?

Personally (of the POTUS):
Did they represent the country in a way you felt was strong and positive?
Did they focus on priorities that needed to be addressed?

Bottom line - are you/we better off under one of these guys than the other? There is the personality that can rub soemone the wrong way; but are conditions better, or worse?




For those of you keeping score at home: Ali and I are good friends going way back. Neither of us really takes any of the back and forth as personal, but we do come at things from different perspectives. I appreciate his responses and views, it helps broaden my understanding. I hope I get him to expand his considerations as well. It isn't a mission to win, or convert the other, but more to ensure a variety of perspectives is brought to bear, leaving everyone involved to consider more than they might otherwise have been exposed to.
 
JackARoe said:
Biden seemed fine. I mean I do not believe any rhetoric, neither trump or Biden has denentia. That is just political mud slinging. But they are both old men under a lot of stress. But trump would just suck all the money out of the RNC and it will cave.
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Aye, I'm not going to grab ahold of all the biased media representations of either. I can fairly form a dislike of each independently on my own. Butt, to your point of RNC caving...would that not enable the DNC to begin their thousand year reign? I mean RNC is part of the uniparty, but still their only counterpart. Without RNC, there should be no end to the love, joy, peace, and prosperity the DNC can give us - no?


tryptakid said:
Jack - just wanted to say that I thought this was really well put. I have noticed an increase in anxiety in some of my psychotherapy patients recently around local/regional/national and global news as of late, as well as a concurrent feeling of powerlessness, and also the occasional awareness that the anxiety is linked to the notion that 'every one is fighting with each other about something'.
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Yeah, I don't think it's very healthy for the general population to be so over saturated with this biased noise from both sides. It is a big reason so much of America is uninformed, it isn't that they distrust what their being told but moreso they don't want to have to deal with deciphering it - or worse, not thinking it thru and simply accepting all the negative doom and gloom heaped upon them. People want to live, and this just makes it harder by being something so overwhelmingly large and depressing.

tryptakid said:
I often find it helpful to spend more time around people with different view points than I do, than the same. I feel like part of what has helped me navigate the stress of our current context is I spend time around people like my friend at that time, or my brother-in-law who is a cop. I feel like it's good to put myself in situations that are unfamiliar, and that helps me to realize that, as you mentioned, most of us are really interested in the same issues being addressed, and most of us would much rather we had younger presidential candidates this time around. People aren't a monolith, and we do ourselves a disservice by self-segregating into echo chambers that make it seem like they should be and must be.
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Absolutely! Anyone who keeps their head in one kind of space will eventuallyl be poisoned by it. I had that experience back in the Rush Limbaugh days - listening to him at lunchtime eventually drove me nuts, too much usVSthem, too much blame and doom. One of the things I appreciate about this CEP forum, and has brought me back, is to get more opinions and views outside of what I might otherwise be exposed to. Same for stepping out of conmfort zones in genreal, not just on politics - getting uncomfortable or having to consider new things is the best way to learn and grow. Mixing with dissimilar people can be painful, that's what growth pains are meant to be - a changing experience you keep with you.

Burnt Offerings said:
It is really irritating how the stakes are portrayed nowadays. Even when I was a child and young adult, losing an election was never a good thing, it was a setback but at the same time there was the knowledge that you’d dust yourself off and get another crack at it in four years (or however long). Now both sides just go on and on with, VOTE FOR OUR TURD OR DEMOCRACY IS OVER FOR GOOD!!1!
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For as long as I can remember, THIS election is the MOST IMPORTANT EVER!!! Yeah, it wears thin. Regardless of who has been POTUS, the country continues to roll along. Maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse, but we as citizens survive and make the best of it. I can't see things changing, everything is extreme, in all caps and a dozen !!!!! at the end.
 
Do Americans really believe that a choice between TWO candidates is actually a real choice?
Also, why is there not a maximum age for presidency? I feel bad for Americans having to chose between two ancient men with severely declining mental faculties, one of whom is incompetent and the other of whom incompetent AND a sociopath.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Do Americans really believe that a choice between TWO candidates is actually a real choice?
Also, why is there not a maximum age for presidency? I feel bad for Americans having to chose between two ancient men with severely declining mental faculties, one of whom is incompetent and the other of whom incompetent AND a sociopath.
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corporations/pharmaceuticals own the RNC and DNC and would never allow a legitimate third party to gain traction.

game of thrones khaleesi GIF
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Do Americans really believe that a choice between TWO candidates is actually a real choice?
Also, why is there not a maximum age for presidency? I feel bad for Americans having to chose between two ancient men with severely declining mental faculties, one of whom is incompetent and the other of whom incompetent AND a sociopath.
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It is why you'll see/hear reference to the 'Uniparty'. Doesn't matter D or R, they all do the same sht, over and over. More recently, with weaker candidates, we are gaining visibility to the (wo)men behind the curtain that actually make things happen while a figurehead smiles and stumbles in front of the camera. Party doesn't matter. POTUS doesn't matter that much. The entrenched uniparty is the non-choice we always choose.
 
mal3volent said:
corporations/pharmaceuticals own the RNC and DNC and would never allow a legitimate third party to gain traction.

game of thrones khaleesi GIF
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Yeah, it's a shit situation.
What do pharmaceuticals have to do with it? I know they're very powerful and corrupt in the U.S., but didn't know they influenced politics.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
Very simple question, how are you/we/theworld today vs 3y ago?
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i honestly don't know the answer to a lot of your questions because i live in a pretty small bubble. of course, i try to inform myself and seek perspective, but 85% of the time i care about myself, my situation and the well-being of my friends and family.

but i can tell you that las veghost grower told me, a few months ago, categorically, that i paid less tax under trump than i do under biden. well, i have access to my tax return which he does not so i checked. it wasn't much but i actually paid more under trump the year we were discussing than i did under biden the next year. it's one small data point.

TheLoveBandit said:
For those of you keeping score at home: Ali and I are good friends going way back. Neither of us really takes any of the back and forth as personal, but we do come at things from different perspectives. I appreciate his responses and views, it helps broaden my understanding. I hope I get him to expand his considerations as well. It isn't a mission to win, or convert the other, but more to ensure a variety of perspectives is brought to bear, leaving everyone involved to consider more than they might otherwise have been exposed to.
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amen.

and i love it because you don't insult and belittle. you don't assume only you can be right so i must be wrong. you don't trot out tired lines like "you only believe that because the media tells you to believe it". and you're willing to discuss and listen not just spout.

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
you don't assume only you can be right so i must be wrong.
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Yeah, that's the kicker. If you 'KNOW' you are right, you'll never be open to learning and growing. Might as well f-off and die. Me? I'd rather experience a bit more, learn a bit more, hang out with weird people a bit more....weird people like you, that I don't necessarily agree with. <3
 
alasdairm said:
he only has to shift 3 million copies to pay his bond in the ny fraud trial :)

alasdair
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He really should pick George Santos as his running mate*. They are both pathologically outrageous liars who push hypocrisy to astronomical levels.

Alas, they are both extreme narcissists so I guess that wouldn’t work.

* cellmate?
 
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