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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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Sorry, I should have been more clear...

The costs are associated with the household they head...

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the
federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal
deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.
• Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2
billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches
($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to
schools ($1.4 billion).
• With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason
they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and
tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
• On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half
that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other
households.
• Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who
are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from
federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to
access them.
• If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like house-
holds headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual
net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a
total net cost of $29 billion.
• Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status — what
most illegal aliens would become — can access government programs, but still tend to
make very modest tax payments.
• Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs
would rise by 118 percent.
• The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does
not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain — many legal immigrants are
highly skilled.
• The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal
government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.

Steven A. Camarota, "The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget", Center for Immigration Studies, August 2004.
 
How do you keep up with Trump?
I've never seen Australian News, I wonder how it compares to news in Canada and UK?

Willing to bet it's a bunch of left wing drivel. I work up in Canada decently often, and it's baaaaad. Like they don't even have corporate right take on things with fox. They think truduex is a good leader and that trump is 'literally Hitler'. Sj has claimed that he's one of these fascist antifa folks, so left wing media is likely conservative' to him. It's all so very frightening to me tbh, I wish people would just read more and take a centrist view on things like most of us.
 
your data is quite a bit out of date. try to find something within the decade to cite, as a lot has changed since then.

Ok, I'm omw to the pub will find something later. I'm guessing it's only gotten worse tbh
 
Ok, I'm omw to the pub will find something later. I'm guessing it's only gotten worse tbh

take as long as you need. the immigrant profile of the country has changed quite a bit since then, so maybe it has gotten worse. it would be even more useful if you could dig up how many more undocumented immigrants we've picked up since then so we could then use that to get a rough idea of the cost or benefit of each individual immigrant.

ofc if we really want to stop undocumented immigration, we need to go after the companies that are employing them. if they couldnt get jobs then they'd stop coming. how come nobody ever discusses going after the business owners that are responsible for motivating immigrants to come here illegally? or require them to pay minimum wage even to undocumented immigrants rather than the way-far below wages they get away with paying now, then there'd be no reason to hire them over citizens. instead the only angle anyone uses to discuss this issue is xenophobia.
 
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ofc if we really want to stop undocumented immigration, we need to go after the companies that are employing them. if they couldnt get jobs then they'd stop coming. how come nobody ever discusses going after the business owners that are responsible for motivating immigrants to come here illegally? or require them to pay minimum wage even to undocumented immigrants rather than the way-far below wages they get away with paying now, then there'd be no reason to hire them over citizens.
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Fully agree. After LONG opposing "e-verify" ( libertarian reasoning....screw the govt asking me to give this information on my perspective employee, big brother) I have since evolved my perspective so that now I see e-verify as a necessary evil. Perhaps Illegal immigrants will self deport once the money is cut off or amnesty is offered?

Edit: its interesting to see how we use "undocumented immigrant" vs "illegal immigrant."
 
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Willing to bet it's a bunch of left wing drivel. I work up in Canada decently often, and it's baaaaad. Like they don't even have corporate right take on things with fox. They think truduex is a good leader and that trump is 'literally Hitler'. Sj has claimed that he's one of these fascist antifa folks, so left wing media is likely conservative' to him. It's all so very frightening to me tbh, I wish people would just read more and take a centrist view on things like most of us
I'm fighting the pro-Trump with you, brotha!!

Cheers!!

Let me know when you need more help.......LOL :)
 
Its just a technicality (the illegal) I type when speaking of the topic. I don't ask people their immigration status. There is a law. That marijuana being illegal in my state is demoralizing and dehumanizing but I don't use it openly like I did in Colorado or call it legal because its not. I dont mean to be so offensive. Also, I'm not going to click on your link. Knowledge or an opinion on immigration does not suggests I'm a propagandist.
 
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Yeah I must admit I don't have much time for word arguments. Illegal, as in short for illegal alien, is the most commonly used term. And "undocumented worker" is so over the top politically correct I refuse to use it. I'm generally supportive of immigrants including illegals but even I refuse to play such word games.

In fairness though not everyone on bluelight is an addict. Nearly all are drug users but not all are addicts.
 
The way in which we word our opinions says a lot about the content of those opinions so i think it's valid to assess that component of an argument. So i kinda agree with tathra.
 
Yeah I must admit I don't have much time for word arguments. Illegal, as in short for illegal alien, is the most commonly used term. And "undocumented worker" is so over the top politically correct I refuse to use it. I'm generally supportive of immigrants including illegals but even I refuse to play such word games.

In fairness though not everyone on bluelight is an addict. Nearly all are drug users but not all are addicts.

Your last statement is fair but I know for a fact that he and I are addicted to substances.
 
How do you keep up with Trump?
I've never seen Australian News, I wonder how it compares to news in Canada and UK?

Not sure how this is at all relevant to my post, but australian news is a lot less insular and self-absorbed as american press.

Of course, the outlets owned by rupert murdoch are dumbed-down garbage - and just like fox, it's aimed at an audience of complete morons.
We also have some pretty decent non-corporate news outlets, so they provide some balance.

There's really no reason to believe that people outside of america don't follow what's going on in the states.
We're all watching this trainwreck with apprehension. That's what tends to happen when mentally deficient hate mongers take over the world's biggest military.
 
It's all so very frightening to me tbh, I wish people would just read more and take a centrist view on things like most of us.
Yeah me too bud, but I don't think you're very centrist to be honest.

Out of curiosity, do you think I'm centrist? Where would we put Woody on your spectrum? How about MGS? Or tathra? Or Mr. Trump for that matter?

Really, do you believe in centrism? After evaluating my own beliefs I've found that half of what I support is anarchic communistic stuff and the other half might fit in well with some white supremacist beliefs. I hardly find that the mixture could be called centrist. Perhaps in a perfect world a socialist dictatorship run by someone I fully believe to have their head screwed on right would be ideal.
 
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It still wouldn't be ideal because it's doomed to fail. Even the most benevolent dictator in the world will die and eventually someone not nice will take their place.

A constant failure in reasoning is people seeing real problems in capitalism and democracy and assuming that a different system would be better. Assuming that a better system than we have now exists, and worse still assuming that better system has to be one of the existing ones as opposed to an entirely new one.
 
Willing to bet it's a bunch of left wing drivel. I work up in Canada decently often, and it's baaaaad. Like they don't even have corporate right take on things with fox. They think truduex is a good leader and that trump is 'literally Hitler'. Sj has claimed that he's one of these fascist antifa folks, so left wing media is likely conservative' to him. It's all so very frightening to me tbh, I wish people would just read more and take a centrist view on things like most of us.

It's interesting to me that what you take issue with in Canada has 100% to do with people's political alignment, and 0% with any actual real element of society. Your analysis on most issues seems to have more to do with whether someone is a "SJW" or not than any actual policy issues and how they affect people's lives.

Also interesting to me that you think you're a centrist. Like do you think Breitbart is a balanced media outlet giving you nothing but straight facts? Your worldview feels very divorced from reality and informed instead by the framework of divisive us vs them far right rhetoric, and is definitely not what I would call centrist. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama would be good examples of a centrist.
 
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the idea of calling a person illegal is unsettling and dehumanizing. calling them "illegals" is a propaganda technique.

Agreed. It reeks of eugenics as well.

When will open borders happen?

P.S. Trump said Haitian immigrants all have AIDS?! link

Trump fumed at his top security team, reading from a list and complaining that 15,000 immigrants arrived from Haiti.

They “all have AIDS,” he said.

He read on, complaining that 40,000 people had come from Nigeria.

They would never “go back to their huts” in Africa, the President griped, a pair of officials told The Times.

That's extremely racist, like, bizarrely racist. I know he doesn't need the African American vote to get re-elected, but how can the Republicans keep claiming they're not racist if they vote for him in 2020 after saying these things? :? This is a step above and beyond merely saying things like "bad hombres".
 
Bunch of he said - she said

From the same link above
Several participants in the meeting told The Times they did not recall Trump using those words and did not think he had
 
Still way less than the BILLIONS that illegal aliens cost.

Very true, the healthcare to the illegal aliens are hundreds of billions alone, their kids needing special education put a drain on resources already strained to provide a education to tax paying citizen's kids.

The only argument to lowering taxes are, that it can potentially raise the debt. The way I see it is that if GOAT president invests in it's working citizens instead of illegal aliens that our GDP will continue to grow and the debt will drop as our output will payoff any debt left from a tax break.



Bullshit - illegal immigrants contribute to your country, trump is just a drain with an expensive security detail.

If he was a capable president, he might contribute leadership, stability or vision

You are a foreign critic junk, you don't know what you're talking about in respect to your above qoute.
You just parrot whatever media you happen to absorb as a foreign voyeur.
You don't even have a unique view it is just spiteful contempt for getting caught up in the opposing groupthink ideology you subscribe to.
 
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