2017 Trump Presidency Thread

[spacejunk]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-04/donald-trump-told-malcolm-turnbull-refugee-deal-was-stupid/8773368

I almost agree with Trump. Australia's policies are sorta worse then the US.

true - australia's treatment of refugees is beyond appalling.
have you been following what's happening on Manus Island at the moment?
the australian government has turned off the power and clean water at the refugee camp, and are just leaving the people stranded there to die.
they're getting attacked by locals with machetes...and the media are fucking ignoring it. horrendous.
Manus Island refugees seriously injured in machete attacks

whatever anyone thinks of refugee laws, or australia's secretive offshore mandatory asylum seeker detention camps, this is just fucking barbaric.

Mr Turnbull repeatedly stressed that Mr Trump did not have to actually accept any of the individuals on Nauru or Manus Island to honour the deal, saying he only has to vet them for resettlement.

"That is the point I have been trying to make." Mr Turnbull replied.

"How does that help you?" Mr Trump asked.

"Well, we assume that we will act in good faith," Mr Turnbull said.

Mr Turnbull asked him to honour the deal as a deterrent to people smugglers and repeatedly explained Australia's immigration policy to the US leader.

turnbull does come off as a weaselly bastard in this transcript - because he is. it says a lot about trump that i've never seen him look like the 'reasonable' participant in a conversation, but because he's kind of neutral in this instance - not obviously outrageous, but we don't have any idea what his tone was. it could have been snarky or sardonic - or shouting, for all we know. but it's still so odd for him to possibly not be bullshitting, that it stands out and we remark upon it

i've suspected for a while that this was no accident, and that trump has been icy - or just really weird - with some of america's (pre-trump) international lap-dog allies.

"What is the thing with boats? Why do you discriminate against boats? No, I know, they come from certain regions. I get it."

through his lack of knowledge of the subject he was discussing as the leader of the US, with the australian prime minister (shouldn't he have been briefed by someone from the state department or at least one of his staffers?) trump actually stumbled into summing up the key issue here; "Why do you discriminate against boats?"
sadly not enough australian politicians have the nerve to ask this, outside of one or two parties,

"I have had it. I have been making these calls all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. Putin was a pleasant call. This is ridiculous," he said.

fuck that's hilarious.
what a big baby, needs papa putin to comfort him with a "pleasant call".

this is kind of interestingly timed for australian politics as well. turnbull is on the ropes, and i have been expecting a leadership challenge any day now.
this makes him look pretty useless, and will probably further damage his grip on the leadership on the LNP.
good riddance - he's fucking useless, and the sooner they roll him the better. i hope this is the final straw.

 

[Scrofula]

Grand Jury y'all.

(In addition and separate to the one for Flynn.)

I know it's been said, but wanted to say, Grand Jury y'all.

I'm sure that even if it's just a little ol' lie they're calling obstruction of justice, his supporters will react with as much frothing rage as they did for Clinton and his consenting intern.

 

[spacejunk]

i don't really know what a grand jury is, but this is big, isn't it?

 

[Scrofula]

You go to a grand jury to get a criminal indictment. They're also notorious for giving them.

So, to nab someone, you can get an arrest warrant from a judge, or when it's an investigation into criminal activity, go to a jury panel and present your evidence for why you think a trial is in order. It's weird, yes, and kind of fucked.

But let's say you have all these emails and phone calls of someone talking with Russian government officials about how to smear his opponent in an election.
You think you've nailed him.
You ask the jury for an indictment on, say, treason, obstruction, violations of whatever foreign intelligence blah blah section 3c subparagraph a through q excluding d, etc.
Jury approves obstruction and subsection f.

Next step is arrest and trial on those two.

But sometimes, if the jury only approves indictment on say, subsection f of whatever lame violation, the prosecution will back off and dig for more.

(what's kind of fucked is I think they can even present, like, murder and manslaughter, which is kind of unfair to know what a jury might think beforehand)
I mean, at a trial you can't charge with both, defendent either meant to kill the victim or not, and this seems like a test to see how a jury reacts, before filing charges.
But details are murky for me.

 

[spacejunk]

cool - thanks for the explanation.
my main reference point for the term 'grand jury' is ol' mate julian assange.

wow - interesting. looks like it's on

 

[swilow]

true - australia's treatment of refugees is beyond appalling.
have you been following what's happening on Manus Island at the moment?
the australian government has turned off the power and clean water at the refugee camp, and are just leaving the people stranded there to die.
they're getting attacked by locals with machetes...and the media are fucking ignoring it. horrendous.
Manus Island refugees seriously injured in machete attacks
.

I am so emotionally frail atm, I haven't been following this but fuck, I am appalled.

As ever, I am ashamed of my shitty country.

 

[spacejunk]

sorry willow
it's a bloody awful situation. entirely needless suffering inflicted on innocent people.
treated like pawns in some rich folks' grubby games.

 

[LiquidMethod]

looks like it's on

Look like it's been "on" since the election and they found nothing. They will continue to dig but don't get your hopes up.
The establishment is also playing with fire. If they end up removing a democratically-elected President for hypocritical reasons then expect massive social unrest. The US is now doing to themselves what they've done for decades in other countries, enacting illegitimate regime change.

continues to tell lie after lie after lie every day which has eroded trust in washington even more and has ushered in the 'post truth' era which is a modern tragedy, and has placed corporate interest on a pedestal to as much, if not a greater extent, that the politicians for whom you have so much disdain.

No, just no. Do you even remember what things were like beforehand? You sound like someone who would listen to Hillary & Obama and believe the words that came out of their mouths. Literally almost everything that came out of their mouths were lies, but when you have the media and "fact-checkers" on your side perpetuating your lies then they don't seem as dishonest as Trump, who has the entire media against him. So you can cry and whine all you like about how Trump lies, but he pales in comparison to the dishonesty exhibited by the majority of politicians and especially an evil psychopath like Killary. "Post-truth" is honestly the biggest fucking joke I've ever heard. You're not an idiot but I wish you would be more fair and objective with your criticisms and comparisons. Not all lies are created equal, and the situation beforehand was much worse than you are willing to admit.

it's business as usual in d.c. and i think you're unable or unwilling to recognize that. not a little ironic

It is definitely not. When was the last time Republicans & Democrats ganged up together to remove a political outsider? When was the last time they were subverting democracy to impede someone making decisions that did not directly benefit the criminal cabal? I'll explain it simple for you - you can't just waltz in and change everything. Yes you will have to pander somewhat to corporate interests because they control the fucking world. But if you are doing so while also attempting to make changes that will benefit the people, then that person receives support. Again this comes down to people assuming that Trump is a very stupid person, yet he is still there, continues to gain support, continues to outsmart the psychopaths trying to take him down, and continues to make changes that the establishment would never have taken had it not been Trump that won the election.

 

[Scrofula]

Again this comes down to people assuming that Trump is a very stupid person

He is demonstrably unintelligent

yet he is still there

Wheels of Justice being slow, yeah

continues to gain support

Down at 33% I believe, in range of that whatever-theory limit

ontinues to outsmart the psychopaths trying to take him down

Psychopaths like the former FBI director, and outsmarting him by being subject of a grand jury?

continues to make changes that the establishment would never have taken had it not been Trump that won the election.

What change would that be exactly? Turning the executive office and this country into a fucking joke? He did do that.

 

[Soso78]

Australia got the right idea when it comes to illegal immigrants. I wish the uk took a leaf out of Australia's book.

 

[LiquidMethod]

He is demonstrably unintelligent

There are many different types of intelligence. There are people that can barely speak English yet they can survive and thrive "in the real world" better than anyone. Trump is not going to win any intellectual battles but when it comes to influencing people and getting shit done - he's one of the smartest guys in the world. You all should also start recognizing his strengths instead of only focusing on his weaknesses.

Wheels of Justice being slow, yeah

What do you mean "justice"? Why should he even be unseated from power? Can you give me a rational, coherent justification? Do you believe that there are grounds for impeachment, or do you simply not like him and are worried about what he *might* do? Be honest.

Down at 33% I believe, in range of that whatever-theory limit

Bullshit polls that predicted bullshit election results. Not to be taken seriously. Many people in the US are still scared or intimidated to openly show their support for Trump for fear of being labeled a racist, bigot or xenophobe.

Psychopaths like the former FBI director, and outsmarting him by being subject of a grand jury?

If you knew the history of Comey and especially his career of covering for the Clinton crime family (research the Marc Rich pardon) then you'd realize how much of a slimy, corrupt, compromised snake that guy is. He admitted under oath that he leaked sensitive information to the media when it was his job to protect sensitive information, and he directed one of the most blatant coverups and examples of political corruption in history when he refused to recommend charges for Hillary Clinton despite a mountain of incriminating evidence of very serious crimes (also involving crimes where intent is irrelevant). Even McCabe is also extremely compromised (check the payments his wife received). Re: subject of grand jury - that relates to my question above. What crimes did Trump commit? Or what crimes is he even being accused of committing? Any evidence? Could this grand jury move be a legitimate pursuit of justice, or perhaps just another avenue to possibly remove him unjustly?

What change would that be exactly? Turning the executive office and this country into a fucking joke? He did do that.

I can think of one off the top of my head - not pursuing a warring path with a nuclear superpower. Trump trying to improve relations with Russia, and his hand was forced by Congress (AKA compromised politicians AKA deep state) to sign off on dangerous and unwarranted sanctions. He wants to reduce interventionist wars because they're not only a waste of taxpayer money (and against international law and basic human decency) but also he does not profit from the military-industrial complex war machine. Maybe indirectly but not directly like many other politicians. Trump implemented a rule banning administration officials from ever lobbying the U.S. on behalf of a foreign government and imposing a separate five-year ban on other lobbying. Moves like these. You're refusing to be honest about this situation (as are many others in this thread). We'd get a lot further if we stayed realistic, recognized the positives along with negatives and then tried to come to some kind of agreement or a way forward. I mean it's not like we can fix anything from here anyway, but it is annoying to hear seemingly intelligent people just parroting the same old garbage and nonsense. The bias is so obvious and it hurts one's argument and credibility.

 

[consumer]

And the vets have been treated so justly and compassionately before Trump?
- thread logic

Trump dodged the draft but portrays himself as the vets best friend. He even said John McCain wasn't a war hero because he got captured and he preferred people that didn't get captured. What a disgusting thing to say.

 

[consumer]

I am so emotionally frail atm, I haven't been following this but fuck, I am appalled.

As ever, I am ashamed of my shitty country.

Yeah right there with you brother.

 

[consumer]

You go to a grand jury to get a criminal indictment. They're also notorious for giving them.

So, to nab someone, you can get an arrest warrant from a judge, or when it's an investigation into criminal activity, go to a jury panel and present your evidence for why you think a trial is in order. It's weird, yes, and kind of fucked.

But let's say you have all these emails and phone calls of someone talking with Russian government officials about how to smear his opponent in an election.
You think you've nailed him.
You ask the jury for an indictment on, say, treason, obstruction, violations of whatever foreign intelligence blah blah section 3c subparagraph a through q excluding d, etc.
Jury approves obstruction and subsection f.

Next step is arrest and trial on those two.

But sometimes, if the jury only approves indictment on say, subsection f of whatever lame violation, the prosecution will back off and dig for more.

(what's kind of fucked is I think they can even present, like, murder and manslaughter, which is kind of unfair to know what a jury might think beforehand)
I mean, at a trial you can't charge with both, defendent either meant to kill the victim or not, and this seems like a test to see how a jury reacts, before filing charges.
But details are murky for me.

And the defense gets no representation or even knowledge of whats going on in the Grand Jury and its decision is sealed until the prosecution decides to act upon it.

My feeling Trump is in deep shit.

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

My agenda is for truth, first and foremost

Had to link this gem from another thread. So after everything LiQMeTH has said, do you all think that he is sticking to his agenda? Is lIQmEtH a bastion of truth?

I wonder how many grand juries will be convened/impaneled in the end. You all think we will break a record? Trump will have WAY more grand juries due to his actions than OBAMA. When will this winning stop?!

 

[alasdairm]

Literally

i do not think that word means what you think it means.

the trump calls to mexico and australia are shocking to me. i was told he was the world's greatest negotiator. all i hear is somebody in way over his head.

alasdair

 

[LiquidMethod]

i do not think that word means what you think it means.

It also means figuratively now. Go figure.

Had to link this gem from another thread. So after everything LiQMeTH has said, do you all think that he is sticking to his agenda? Is lIQmEtH a bastion of truth?

I wonder how many grand juries will be convened/impaneled in the end. You all think we will break a record? Trump will have WAY more grand juries due to his actions than OBAMA. When will this winning stop?!

What did I say that is incorrect? Bring it up, explain why and I will either defend my position or admit that I fucked up.
Obviously some of what I say is just my opinion and speculation but I do my best to never knowingly spread any false information.

Also maybe you can answer (because nobody else will) - what's the with the grand juries? What crime is Trump being accused of committing?

 

[LiquidMethod]

Quick update of actual crimes: Platte River, who managed Hillary Clinton's server are being investigated. They deleted her emails then took her emails and stored them on a cloud storage firm called Datto. Imran Awan (& co.) stored House data on an outside, off-site server before Imran tried to flee the country (his wife was allowed to leave with $12K cash). Crowdstrike (another 3rd party tech firm) was utilized to look at the DNC's servers, and sanctions have been implemented based on their report. Fusion GPS concocted a fake story (disseminated by John McCain) which resulted in Buzzfeed being sued. Fusion GPS & Crowdstrike officials won't testify before Congress.


Also re: Junior's meeting with Veselnitskaya - why was a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer allowed into the country without a visa for "extraordinary circumstances" from Oct/15 - Jan/16 by the Obama administration, yet was still in the country in Jun/16 to trick Jr, Kushner & Manafort into a meeting under false pretenses?

 

[Scrofula]

Yer boy the negotiator can't even work a deal to keep his wife and son's bodyguards around:

"On Thursday, a spokeswoman for the Trump Organization said the government should seek space in another location.

“After much consideration, it was mutually determined that it would be more cost effective and logistically practical for the Secret Service to lease space elsewhere,” spokeswoman Amanda Miller wrote in an email to The Washington Post."Wonkette

"What did I say that is incorrect? Bring it up, explain why and I will either defend my position or admit that I fucked up."

Please, we do this all the time, constantly in fact. You've never once admitted you were wrong. Here's one, I asked how Yer Boy could be outsmarting "psycopaths out to get him" like the former FBI director.

It's not Comey, like you responded, it's Robert Mueller.

"“What you are going to have is the potential for a powerful obstruction case,” a senior law enforcement official said. “You are going to have the [former] FBI director testify, and then the acting director, the chief of staff to the FBI director, the FBI’s general counsel, and then others, one right after another. This has never been the word of Trump against what [James Comey] has had to say. This is more like the Federal Bureau of Investigation versus Donald Trump.”wonkette

Remember, this isn't speculation, this is moving forward, with the only way out through a pardon from Pres. Pence.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Isn't treason the only crime that's actually mentioned in the constitution? Providing aid and comfort to the enemy or something along those lines. If John Adams brokered a deal with the British to smear Jefferson with some indiscretions he did while ambassador to France would that be considered a treasonable offense?