2017 Trump Presidency Thread

[consumer]

MERKEL BOMBSHELL: Chancellor didn't shut border because of how it would play on TV news

-in this world of political correctness, and what everyone else thinks...

“In the end, Angela Merkel refused to assume responsibility even as everything was in place to close the borders so they remained open - without an explicit decision.”

http://socialpsychonline.com/2015/11/psychology-ostracism-feeling-excluded/

I read somewhere- but can't find the source exactly this moment, that the drive to belong is stronger than the drive to not be physically injured (and perhaps, not do things that you feel would cause you to be ostracized, which makes sense in the context of the woman Merkel not shutting down the border). And that this may help explain how people react to the immigration from the Islamic world, and other regions, and perhaps don't act on their "racist" feelings more. Belonging is a strange thing, though. Americans and westerners in general are supposed to have this, according to expectation, acceptance of everyone. Nothing, unless it is stated as clearly aggressive or not inclusive, (and explicitly stated, and even so, many won't accept that view), can be "anti-American" or against our way of life (Islam definitely is). Also, remember, you were an immigrant too. And there is absolutely no difference between Irish and English and Somalian and English. Just to make sure I don't see the difference is obvious, I want you to tell me the difference. Don't mention they look radically different, and will fracture off into different bodies, either, that's racist...

Some people will "do the right thing" even to their detriment, and like Merkel, others' detriments. Merkel is the type of personality that would invite the Zombie apocalypse in because cameras were on and she saw a cute little girl.

Those are just unsubstantiated allegations in a book. #fakenews.

I am ignoring the rest of the post as soon as i saw "belonging" i knew you were banging on about the same shit as always..

 

[consumer]

I saw this clip of Trump with a bunch of reporters going "I got us a good price on the F35 didn't I." when that price reduction was coming before he was elected. He takes credit for shit he hasn't done. He constantly needs his ego stroked and has no regard for the truth. He is a fucking shocker.

Waiting for Ryan to pipe in with his Trump cheerleader bullshit.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

trump looked like a scared awkward kid with merkel. Like a man that knows he is in way over his head and can't even act intellectual or diplomatic

 

[consumer]

It really was surreal. He has no manners or grace. And this is with one of Americas strongest Allies. Then they repeat as fact some unsubstantiated allegations about the British wiretapping him and think thats fine...and saying if its wrong take it up with Fox. This is just unbelievable for a president.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Why would he want to shake her hand? He ran his whole campaign on ideals which are the complete opposite of merkels. She's disgusting inside and out. Germany is no ally.

 

[swilow]

I note that the 'immigrant apocalypse" didn't really happen as feared. Maybe Merkel was right.

 

[What 23]

Those are just unsubstantiated allegations in a book. #fakenews.

I am ignoring the rest of the post as soon as i saw "belonging" i knew you were banging on about the same shit as always..

Belonging/Love is in Maslows hierarchy of needs. After physiological needs and safety are met, there is love/belonging. Of course all of these needs are not so simply seen and are themselves weighted back and forth, but belonging is a big deal. Merkel obviously wants to "belong" to the ideal that people have, and not their Nazi past, which is what would have been brought up had she not taken on the role of "Mama Merkel". At least in some way. Germans are still embarrassed about their past. There isn't a doubt in my mind that this plays into their being so accepting of this.

I understand it is part of a book, but I doubt it is "fake news". It's clear as day that people want to belong, and that she and many others know that if she is anything but accepting, she'll be a KKKNazi, just like me.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Most people find belonging in having children, a significant other, friends... most of us don't think about, "I can't feel belonging without being around other white people." I've always associated my sense of belonging with my strong friendships and relationship with my partner.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Why would he want to shake her hand? He ran his whole campaign on ideals which are the complete opposite of merkels. She's disgusting inside and out. Germany is no ally.

thats stupid, why the fuck even meet with her then if he isn't going to shake her hand.

just because you shake someones hand doesn't mean you agree with them, its called tact and courtesy, things which trumps ego-brain is too diseased to engage in because they show a thread of deference or humility

 

[What 23]

Most people find belonging in having children, a significant other, friends... most of us don't think about, "I can't feel belonging without being around other white people." I've always associated my sense of belonging with my strong friendships and relationship with my partner.

That's not the case I was making-- Just that her decision-making was heavily influenced by a need to belong to what is an acceptable image for the media/for people to be presented over media. In this case, it could be said that this imbalanced need for belonging, to such an expectation, could be detrimental to safety (it already has been) of people. This could have further repercussions, or they could adapt.

I love how little invested people are in first apprehending what is being said before making their response.

thats stupid, why the fuck even meet with her then if he isn't going to shake her hand.

just because you shake someones hand doesn't mean you agree with them, its called tact and courtesy, things which trumps ego-brain is too diseased to engage in because they show a thread of deference or humility

He did, before and after. Probably when he met her, and when they were leaving.

 

[swilow]

That's not the case I was making-- Just that her decision-making was heavily influenced by a need to belong to what is an acceptable image for the media/for people to be presented over media. In this case, it could be said that this imbalanced need for belonging, to such an expectation, could be detrimental to safety (it already has been) of people. This could have further repercussions, or they could adapt.

I don't doubt that a desire for a certain public image played a role in her decisions- she's a politician after all. But I also think an ethical conviction, which I share, played a greater role. Protecting people is what civilised nations should do.

 

[What 23]

They were safe long before they got to Germany. But I know they wanted those benefits (of course).

 

[spacejunk]

Such unsubstantiated dribble.
"They" got to Germany because the USA invaded so many countries that were preventing refugees from fleeing parts of the middle east and north africa.
If Iraq and Libya had not been illegally invaded by the US war machine, Germany would probably not have been faced with this exodus of people to begin with.

There is no country more directly responsible for the refugee crisis than the United States, yet oddly it seems that Americans are some of the most vocal critics of countries like Germany who did endeavour to offer humanitarian assistance to the people fleeing.

I've never heard any of my friends in Germany say anything like this at all.

For some reason, Germans have a different perspective on humanitarian issues. Can you think why this might be?

Throwaway lines about "benefits" - what do you even know about benefits?
The USA doesn't have anything resembling a true welfare state - you have third world slums in the world's richest nation, and people that die if they cannot afford basic health care.

Before you criticise people running for their lives, maybe you could look to addressing the situation in your own backyard?
Hell, i mean your nation's millions of working poor have just been stripped of their healthcare - but you're more interesting in what "benefits" some destitute people on the other side ofthe globe may or may not be getting?

Very strange priorities.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

That's not the case I was making-- Just that her decision-making was heavily influenced by a need to belong to what is an acceptable image for the media/for people to be presented over media. In this case, it could be said that this imbalanced need for belonging, to such an expectation, could be detrimental to safety (it already has been) of people. This could have further repercussions, or they could adapt.

I love how little invested people are in first apprehending what is being said before making their response.



He did, before and after. Probably when he met her, and when they were leaving.

I read your whole post, I apprehended what was said just fine.

 

[Tranced]

"The most offensive thing about this cartoon is that it is all true"

Aye? Seems like an intendedly emotive cartoon to me.

 

[What 23]

SJ- I don't disagree that the people running my country, using it basically, have done a lot of wrong. But I don't think the right course of action is the one Germany has followed. I like to choose when I let my heart run me, and this isn't one of the times. I don't want Islam taking over Germany, and Germany has already admitted it will. As I have said before, I would prefer the people running for their lives just die, than that happen. I don't really care about your judgments of my morality.

Of course, I understand it from their perspective. I also understand ants like the food I left on the kitchen floor. I generally don't really have a priority to save everyone's life when we have 7 Billion and counting faster than anyone can especially in the Middle East and Africa...who are now taking up residences in my ancestral lands. But I agree, my country should have a universal healthcare system. Just not for everyone who wants in, ideally. Ideally. And better "wages". And "free" college. And don't take away 'meals on wheels'- and improve headstart, or something like it, not get rid of it.

I don't disagree that there is wrong, but I don't agree that self-sacrifice is absolutely required, or something we should do, for them. I don't agree that Germany owes Muslims and their children their country. Or even equal shares. Or should give them that. I don't count people as equally exchangeable units, nor cultures.

 

[What 23]

SJ- if you believe the nation state is something that should fall away, what, practically, do you think could come in it's place? ...To steer this a direction that we can actually try to have a conversation about, other than someone calling me a mean evil man for not wanting Muslims here (or a hotbed for my recent ancestry). Not sure if it was this thread that you mentioned this, but I have seen you mention it a few times, and am curious. I have also been thinking about how so outdated in ways it is, and how it holds us back... but I also see it as necessary. But considering Trump is our "leader" and many of our individual men and women, who individually could be friends with many different people, North Koreans, Chinese, Russians, like I am... and who could be sent into battle by old rich white dudes... for what? In this divided nation, in this divided world, how could we really have a war, that didn't contain in it's sides many more wars ready to break out? I have more reason to go to war with a guy like Trump than I do the people of Afghanistan (I guess, on some surfaces). Just some of my thoughts processing there, but what could come in the place of the nation?

I think social networks, like Facebook (like a billion people sharing the same experience in senses, and hearing about the same events), are reshaping the landscape (in a broader sense, Media). Nation may fall away, sometime, to some degrees that I can't know, but I don't think it should be rushed.

I read your whole post, I apprehended what was said just fine.

You're a mod. Respond to the actual post. Don't use what I say and do that to take a jab.

Do you want me to say it again??? I feel like I belong with white people, more than I belong in the tribe in the Amazon. I would want to have children with a white girl, and stay on the same ladder, than another woman, of another group, more than likely, and there are many reasons- not really entirely shallow reasons (although I do find them most attractive physically) for this. We "speak the same language". When I see three black people in a room with a bunch of white people, my brain automatically would say where they "belong" (to each other's groups, or closer to each other's groups than the whites are, like this subspecies of bird belongs more with their own than the others, while humans may not have subspecies, the comparison is a valid one). Yes, I understand they may belong in other ways, but they don't in other ways. But there are many more ways of belonging, and in-fact, this was not what I meant with my post- it wasn't about race again. But lets pin the RACIST down because that's all we think we can do.

 

[alasdairm]

Why would he want to shake her hand? He ran his whole campaign on ideals which are the complete opposite of merkels. She's disgusting inside and out. Germany is no ally.

ryan01, what is your position on gun rights in the u.s. and the second amendment? i know this seems like a bit of a non sequitur but i'll connect the dots later.

alasdair

 

[Cream Gravy?]

You're a mod. Respond to the actual post. Don't use what I say and do that to take a jab.

Do you want me to say it again??? I feel like I belong with white people, more than I belong in the tribe in the Amazon. I would want to have children with a white girl, and stay on the same ladder, than another woman, of another group, more than likely, and there are many reasons- not really entirely shallow reasons (although I do find them most attractive physically) for this. We "speak the same language". When I see three black people in a room with a bunch of white people, my brain automatically would say where they "belong" (to each other's groups, or closer to each other's groups than the whites are, like this subspecies of bird belongs more with their own than the others, while humans may not have subspecies, the comparison is a valid one). Yes, I understand they may belong in other ways, but they don't in other ways. But there are many more ways of belonging, and in-fact, this was not what I meant with my post- it wasn't about race again. But lets pin the RACIST down because that's all we think we can do.

I never said you couldn't desire women of you're own race (I don't think anyone believes as such); sexuality is a much more instinctive thing. I like white women too, they're easily the most arousing to me at a base level, likely because we share common ancestry, and like I said, sexuality is indeed instinctive.

Your insistence that one should be incapable of belonging to another race group via assimilation (is that what you're saying?) or rather that it's natural to segregate one's self from other groups seems silly to me, do you have no friends of other races? I mean I must admit, most of my friends are white, but I get along fine with most people and I have black friends. Had asian friends in high school but lost contact with them over the years. Have Indian friends from then still (I went to a very multicultural high school). I don't know any Latin people but I think that's more because of the self-segregation that you seem to be behind rather than outward segregation. When it comes down to it, I see no wrongs in appreciating others' cultures. I gather you would make a terrible anthropologist hahahah. Cultural constructs can be and are changed in people; if I moved to Vietnam I'd probably develop a taste for their terrible fish sauce, etc. and I don't believe that any race or culture is incapable of assimilating into another; it's only a matter of being flexible.

If you feel that we cannot get along then fine, let's ignore each other if you want. That seems to be what everyone is doing these days, just pretending that people of opposing views don't exist/are somehow inhuman. I know you exist and I know you're just as human as I, and so I come here to try and argue my views to offer others the chance to think over my points and to think over theirs, and maybe once in a while change my opinions if I can be proved wrong.

 

[What 23]

Basically I just wasn't intending to argue that, about race. That's it. Just that Merkel felt a need to "belong" to a politically correct, "accept"able view, for the media. And that it could- that this need to belong could be detrimental to a society (for example, my mom made me keep swimming even though I had daily headaches from it, and multiple ear infections despite wearing plugs-- it a tumor in my head for her to stop making me swim, because she worried so much about blending with the fucking group). It's probably why Islamic countries are overwhelmingly Islamic. Belonging, by nature of this subject/aspect of being, would go to race, and dynamics of different ethnic groups and cultures, and sometimes disparate identities intermingling and trying and not trying to solve, but I wasn't intending to jump there, any more than I was really interested in debating the right geographic location for my skin and hair and body type (I'm being very general and flexible as far as right geographic location, as we aren't exact- we're moving).

Being accepting of other cultures, or wanting to study them, and wanting/allowing them to take prominence or thinking that yours will so easily transfer (or something- or enough positive from it will), is not the same. I agree we should be flexible, but there just should have been clearer boundaries... Not necessarily for oppressive purposes, or anything. Most of our multiculturalism that we have a problem with didn't come from friendship, or even any kind of equal trade. Many of the Muslims are in Europe now because they were acceptable forms of slaves (cheap labor), not because we actually value them as anything more than that, as naturally (they don't carry on our culture, our customs, our traditions, speak the same language, etc)-- Not that it's impossible to value individuals/them.

I've had rather diverse social interactions, actually, and many of my friends are more than "white". I never really identified with the word "white" for me, until it just became acceptable to me in context of all the other words for other people, like a placeholder word. I understand we are not monoliths...
I felt nationality was a better descriptor (now, a Black guy can be a Swedish National, and people are trying to forget that the most native "Swedes" are "white"-- struggling for consistency). I knew I was English, German, and Irish. I didn't know I was part Native American, or Jewish.

You could move to Vietnam and develop a taste for things, but I'm sure you would miss home...You would feel more at home there. And as an individual you may be accepted among a group in Vietnam, of them. You are in a sense their guest, even a valued guest. But when you have more of a group there, like you, that have slightly different or very different habits, and are slightly out of sync with the rest (Vietnamese), there would be friction, naturally. And identities would become complicated by this, and any meeting (interbreeding/marrying) would also be found with conflict. You may be less seen as a guest, and more often invasive, and a threat, especially as there are more of "you" in Vietnam.