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2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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The gasps at the UN General Assembly when Trump threatened to destroy North Korea are something to note. Trump threatened to obliterate an entire country, and gasping seems like a normal reaction.

In terms of normalizing Trump, the rest of the world doesn't understand that Trump thought he was at a rally.

Trump doesn't understand yet the weight his words, whether spoken or tweeted, carry. That realization might come at a very bitter price.

Trump ensured that everything he said would be overshadowed by his promise to “destroy North Korea.” He could have said that if North Korea attacked the United States or its allies, America would bring Kim’s regime to an end. Instead, he threatened to destroy the country and its people, something entirely at odds with U.S. doctrine for many decades. He probably delighted in the audible gasps that comment produced in the room but it only allowed America’s rivals to draw an equivalence between the two leaders. It will play very badly in South Korea, and weaken popular support for the alliance with the United States. This phrase let Kim off the hook.
.................

Meanwhile, America’s rivals will take note. They are wary of Trump because he is erratic, indecisive, and commander-in-chief of the world’s strongest military. But they also understand that American power is more complex than military hardware. It also includes the skill of the president, strategic nous, and America’s unparalleled ability to build international coalitions. On all these counts, the weakness is beginning to show. The known unknown is whether and how they will exploit it.
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Trump's Indecisive, Ill-Prepared Debut at the United Nations
 
alasdairm said:
how do people feel about trump's tweetstorm encouraging nfl teams to suspend or fire players who protest the anthem by quietly kneeling?

alasdair
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Well I for one feel like that is the least of our problems involving trump and Twitter.

Honestly I don't much care if they suspend them or not. On the whole I'd prefer private organizations honor reasonable protests by people involved with them, even if from a legal rights perspective they don't have too.

He probably delighted in the audible gasps that comment produced in the room but it only allowed America’s rivals to draw an equivalence between the two leaders
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Trump and Jim Jong Un are already way too similar for my liking. Trump is probably the bigger and crazier danger though. Obviously he's not as evil and tyrannical as Kim Jong Un....probably.. but Kim's not the president.

The thing I keep thinking, keep remembering. Is when trump referred to the military as "his" military instead of "our" military. He said it once then switched to saying "our", but I found that very alarming. Like Jesus, does he really think of it as his personal military? And this his country to do with as he pleases.

The White House is not a palace, he's not King. He's the president, he is OUR servent. He reports to US. The constitution is the highest law, not the presidents say so. Presidents have a habit of forgetting that.
 
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JessFR said:
Well I for one feel like that is the least of our problems involving trump and Twitter.
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i think it speaks directly to his lack of fitness to lead.

saw this and it made me smile:

patriotcartoon01.jpg


alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
i think it speaks directly to his lack of fitness to lead.

saw this and it made me smile:

patriotcartoon01.jpg


alasdair
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It made my smile too. Something I find frustrating, some people think being patriotic is to just blindly support the US with no thought. It isn't.

This is America. And you know what I think is patriotic in America? Supporting peoples right to burn the flag is patriotic. Saying that it's wrong to force people to say the pledge of allegiance or salute the flag is patriotic. Patriotism is saying as loud as you can that what we're doing around the world is WRONG.

I say that in America, Patriotism is supporting what we're supposed to stand for, the constitution, the ideals. Not blind idolization.

You know what I think is patriotic? If they pass a law to ban flag burning, patriotism in America is going and buying a flag, and burning it in front of everyone to show we will NOT have out rights violated. The point isn't to worship and protect a piece of fabric, the point is to believe in and defend and protect what that fabric is supposed to stand for.

That, is what patriotism is to me.

Since I live in Australia, I don't say it much to avoid arguments. But while there is a LOT I hate about the government and the shit we've done and especially what so many of the people believe. I'll say it. I'm an American, I love America and I really do believe in what I feel we're supposed to stand for.

We've done a horrible job living up to it. And I am VERY disappointed about the state of our society for so many reasons. But the ideals, the history, the constitution. I do believe in it. I don't talk about it much, cause well, I think Australians just don't "get" it. If you're not culturally American you probably won't. And that's ok. Australia's not America. And as similar as we are relatively speaking. There are still some big cultural differences.

Technically I'm a dual Australian American citizen. But I grew up in America, I'm culturally American and living in Australia makes me see that every day. I don't quite think the same way. Don't talk the same way. My accent means I'm not thought of as an Australian by Australians. So Legalities aside, I'm not an Australian, not on the truly meaningful sense. And that's ok, I don't want to be, just like how Australians don't want to be America. We're similar, but we're not the same.
 
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I hate it when traitors like trump lecture people on being good citizens.

This is all theatre. Fascistic distraction, with a large dose of racist dogwhistling.
 
Fresco said:
I really hate it when athletes, actors or musicians get too political.
I watch them for entertainment, not to be lectured on politics
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well thankfully the world isn't revolving around what you like or do not like.

an athlete or other public figure might work to entertain people but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to speak their mind on politics and issues of society, especially if they're kown enough to actually make some difference. a celebrity is a person afterall and entitled to freedom of thought and the expression thereof, no matter if a subset of their fans get pissed off by said fundamental right.
 
I may think Fresco is generally full of . . . support for Trump, and pretty sure I'll disagree with him about sitting during the anthem,

but I agree with him on one thing: it absolutely is annoying when athletes and celebrities make political statements. Even if they have a right and can make a difference.
 
JessFR said:
This is America. And you know what I think is patriotic in America? Supporting peoples right to burn the flag is patriotic. Saying that it's wrong to force people to say the pledge of allegiance or salute the flag is patriotic. Patriotism is saying as loud as you can that what we're doing around the world is WRONG.

I say that in America, Patriotism is supporting what we're supposed to stand for, the constitution, the ideals. Not blind idolization.

You know what I think is patriotic? If they pass a law to ban flag burning, patriotism in America is going and buying a flag, and burning it in front of everyone to show we will NOT have out rights violated. The point isn't to worship and protect a piece of fabric, the point is to believe in and defend and protect what that fabric is supposed to stand for.

That, is what patriotism is to me.
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me too.

Fresco said:
I really hate it when athletes, actors or musicians get too political.
I watch them for entertainment, not to be lectured on politics
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i support this searing indictment of the trump presidency. he should have stayed in reality tv, rather than trying to lecture us on politics!

Fresco said:
The actual sitting isnt, but the constant attention the media gives it most definitely is
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so your problem is with how the protests are portrayed in the media, not the protests themselves?

i wrote this in another thread earlier but it applies. the opinion that these players are guilty of being unpatriotic falls at the first hurdle. aside from the fact that i believe many critics have a misguided opinion of what real patriotism* is, i think they just can't/won't/don't see the big picture.

the idea that to not stand while the national anthem is playing shows a lack of respect for, or allegiance to, the nation is just simplistic, not to mention lazy. also, it's just not binary and reminds me of bush's famous "if you are not with us, you're against us". i'm a myers-briggs estj so, believe me, i get seeing the world in black and white, but the issue is not black and white - there are hundreds of shades in between.

in a healthy relationship, criticism and admonishment are as fundamental as love, if not fundamental elements of love. what would be unpartriotic would be for him to not do what he's doing out of some unexamined sense of 'patriotism'.

as trevor noah astutely asked a few months ago, how else was he supposed to send his message? what was the right way? send a tweet? nope, that's the refuge of the lazy and the superficial. pivot to the issue in a post-game interview? that would have been, for many, more respectful but he'd still have been criticized for it.

writers write.
painters paint.
comedians satirize.

he's an athlete so, given his inability to wear, say, a shirt with a protest message, he silently knelt during the national anthem. saying he's spitting in the face of the military by doing so is mock outrage.

how about we take a look at what he's protesting instead of how?

the level of tension between black americans and police is maybe at an all-time high? this isn't just another issue plaguing the nation. is is perhaps the most important one. it is fundamental to african americans' increasing sense of social disenfranchisement. when they're asked why they think their lives are fundamentally defined by racism, it's answer #1.

and this is not new. it's been happening for a long time. "just get over it" as a response is, frankly, comical. they say that perception in reality so the idea that, in 2016, american cops are racist is reality.

it's a tough, serious problem - and my gut tells me that donald trump is neither willing nor capable of solving it. but i am optimistic it at least can be solved. you know what would help as a simple start? how about cops just stop killing unarmed people? nobody could possibly argue against that, right? that would save lives, not just black lives. not just white lives. it would just save lives. as long as black people see police as 'the enemy' and vice versa, nothing's going to change.

simply put, that's what colin kaepernick is saying by kneeling. he's not breaking a law. he's harming no one.

he's saying he thinks we can do better. can anybody honestly say that they think that america can not improve at all? it literally can get no better? because if not, you agree with him. on that at least.

i honestly think there's common ground for us here if we could just find a way to admit it...

alasdair
 
also, to put my trevor noah comment in context, here's the clip:



the guest ('conservative political commentator' tomi lahren) talks about her distaste for colin kaepernick's kneeling protest. she said: "i think he went about it the wrong way".

trevor noah responded with: "what is the right way? here's a black man in america who says i dont know how to get a message across. if i march in the streets people say i'm a thug. if i go out and protest people say it's a riot. if i bend down on one knee it's... what is the right way? what is the right way for a black person to get attention in america?"

so, if marching is bad. if assembling is bad. if quietly kneeling is bad. what is the 'good' way for a black man to protest? what use is a protest that is so antiseptic it gets no attention?

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
so your problem is with how the protests are portrayed in the media, not the protests themselves?
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Yes, of course. I wanna watch an NFL game, not some political debate.
FTR there are problems on both sides, many cops are racist cunts, but there's also problems in the black community that they need to address

alasdairm said:
it's a tough, serious problem - and my gut tells me that donald trump is neither willing nor capable of solving it
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Obama wasnt able to solve it either. Just look at:

Oakland BART riots
Ferguson riots
Milwaukee riots
Charlotte riot
 
alasdairm said:
how do people feel about trump's tweetstorm encouraging nfl teams to suspend or fire players who protest the anthem by quietly kneeling?

alasdair
Click to expand...

I think it's crazy considering these guys knowingly destroy their bodies and minds to entertain us. For the most part these guys have made it through pee-wee, middle school, high school, and college football to get to the NFL to make us forget about our worries for a few hours. I can't think of many more noble, if foolish, sacrifices.
 
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