20 mg dbol 3 weeks

Look man, your gonna end up with no lean gains. D-bot doesn't do lean gains, your gonna gain a bunch of water maybe some muscle and then loose all of it in PCT. You want to put a few extra pounds of muscle on in a month or two. Eat more, lift heavier and more consistently. If your stalled you probably have a diet issue, or a training issue or both. Thats what I mean by fuck all = nothing or nothing worth having. Sit down go over your diet, really go over it, then do the same with your training. If you train properly and eat properly at your age you can put on a few pounds of muscle in a month. Whats your training like? Whats your diet like? are you consistent? Thats the most important thing; being consistent. With all the research you have done, you should have arrived at the conclusion that injectables are really the only way to go for a beginner. Hell you can half that dosage at 250 test/week and gain well if you eat well, train well and rest. So yeah give us your training, and diet. and we can go from there.
 
Like this guy. 8o
gyno.jpg
holy fuck that's horrible
 
hey,i am kinda toying with this idea going on some cycle this year,i cant inject anything becose i am living with my family.

i know its bad for liver but if i do 20mg,a low dose,for 3 weeks,a short time,I think i should be ok,right?

this dude Clint Darden says it raise cortisol significantly at week 4


i dont wanna end up like this 21 year bald buff motherfuker at gym,at that dose what chance is for hair loss?



dont tell me run it with test,becose i cant inject anything and i dont want get shutdown completly for three months.
if i run it for only three weaks my natty test should jump back fast i hope


i also have upper back atrophy and recently fucked up right knee + damaged spine disk... i was kinda hoping it would help with these problems

Ok, 20mg a day? 140mg total AS per week for 3 weeks? That's not much more than your body would be producing naturally. It's not even worth it. That's about like taking a testosterone replacement dose for 3 weeks.
 
Ok, 20mg a day? 140mg total AS per week for 3 weeks? That's not much more than your body would be producing naturally. It's not even worth it. That's about like taking a testosterone replacement dose for 3 weeks.

not much more but thing is 20mg dbol shut down natty test only 40% in study made... not much more = lets say 120%+60% = gains
 
No its not going to equal the gains you thinking. The gains, your thinking are only going to be gotten by some one that has been training for 10+ years, and has their diet and training dialed in. As in they know how to eat to trigger nutrient floods to the muscles, the proper timing of protein vs carbs, the amount of and type of each. And on top of that they are training like a beast, regularly and hard, they know how to train individual muscles, and whole groups. Then yeah he may get the types of gains your talking about, because your making blind ass guesses at being shut down Dbol will do it ans fast, and with not much of the compound. Now you have to also know how to control your diet and training during PCT cause its gonna have to train to adjust for the physiological differences. Now here the bitch, once the pct is over you think your gonna keep that 4 pounds fro good? Hell no if you could not train to put on a lousy 4lbs before you sure as shit can't train and eat to keep them now, so what you keep them fro a few weeks they they drop off. Now what do it again? Bollocks

Look people AAS will not give you permanent gains unless you know how to eat and train after you have made them! This shit is not a magic bullet for people that want to have muscle but have no fucking clue how to train and eat. You can make very respectable gains training naturally young, if your shit is done proper. AAS are fro people that are training not as a bloody hobby but as basically a second job, we are aiming to become either Physique competitors, Strength Athletes, Combat Sports, or training for a specific sport, or Job that requires a constant peak physical conditioning. Thats not saying Joe Everybody cant run a cycle to look good and polish up his years of training. It does mean that if you really want to take this route you have to be prepared fro the realities of AAS, and cant just take some pills, drink a shake and trucking train once a week.
 
^^means putting a needle in your ass 2+ times a week as well :P on top of living as healthily as possible (without going nuts doing so I might add. We're still human)
 
this is true though to be honest getting up every day, to beat your self up lifting heavy shit isn't exactly sane. Come to think of it neither is jabbing your self with sharp objects filled with magic liquid to lift heavier shit lol
 
not much more but thing is 20mg dbol shut down natty test only 40% in study made... not much more = lets say 120%+60% = gains

I'm aware of the study/studies suggesting that dbol could be taken in a pulse manner in a short cycle and the user could avoid most of the shutdown. I'm also aware of anecdotal reports of athletes prospering off miniscule doses in the early days of Dianabol. I'm reluctant to accept this as fact.

I've always looked at it like if I'm gonna do drugs I'm gonna do drugs, it's not gonna be a crapshoot for me, I'm going to use the dosages that all respected studies have proven give results. (Another caveat, the study I'm thinking of as far as not shutting down test involved taking the dbol in single dosages, not splitting it up throughout the day. There was no consistent level of elevated androgens. Also if I'm not mistaken, there was a control group that split the dosages up and experienced better results but with more shutdown. Hard to remember as I've never considered dbol on it's own.)

Okay, so even if we assume we can take 20mg a day short term and have NOTICEABLE results- again, not sold on it- 3 weeks is such a tiny timeframe that it's almost laughable. I mean, dbol in my experience doesn't give you an assload of new muscle tissue. In layman's terms it puts water in the muscle, a lot like the results for a lucky few who are excellent creatine responders. Maybe not to the degree that anadrol does, but same ballpark.
 
this is true though to be honest getting up every day, to beat your self up lifting heavy shit isn't exactly sane. Come to think of it neither is jabbing your self with sharp objects filled with magic liquid to lift heavier shit lol

I agree there's something to the argument, but with honest and open discussions I hate to ever see them veer down that path as it's an extremely slippery slope. Most of what we do all day can be considered odd if we look at it from an existential viewpoint.

The big mistake guys make is thinking they're going to get in shape and that's gonna be the whole cake and not the icing as far as getting women and making new friends. (I love cake and icing metaphors). Better work on that cake more the icing and keep everything in balance.
 
No its not going to equal the gains you thinking. The gains, your thinking are only going to be gotten by some one that has been training for 10+ years, and has their diet and training dialed in. As in they know how to eat to trigger nutrient floods to the muscles, the proper timing of protein vs carbs, the amount of and type of each. And on top of that they are training like a beast, regularly and hard, they know how to train individual muscles, and whole groups. Then yeah he may get the types of gains your talking about, because your making blind ass guesses at being shut down Dbol will do it ans fast, and with not much of the compound. Now you have to also know how to control your diet and training during PCT cause its gonna have to train to adjust for the physiological differences. Now here the bitch, once the pct is over you think your gonna keep that 4 pounds fro good? Hell no if you could not train to put on a lousy 4lbs before you sure as shit can't train and eat to keep them now, so what you keep them fro a few weeks they they drop off. Now what do it again? Bollocks

Look people AAS will not give you permanent gains unless you know how to eat and train after you have made them! This shit is not a magic bullet for people that want to have muscle but have no fucking clue how to train and eat. You can make very respectable gains training naturally young, if your shit is done proper. AAS are fro people that are training not as a bloody hobby but as basically a second job, we are aiming to become either Physique competitors, Strength Athletes, Combat Sports, or training for a specific sport, or Job that requires a constant peak physical conditioning. Thats not saying Joe Everybody cant run a cycle to look good and polish up his years of training. It does mean that if you really want to take this route you have to be prepared fro the realities of AAS, and cant just take some pills, drink a shake and trucking train once a week.

Do we still have to do the SWIM shit here when talking about AS use in years past? I hear you on what you're saying. I think AS should be for guys 25+ years old with several years of training. First time I did a real cycle it went like this: trained naturally for years. Got a little out of shape. Started getting back in shape on my own at home. Working at a physical job 40-70 hours a week. My body was hurting and I felt like I had a mild flu all the time. Finally I said fuck this I've got to try something different, I feel like shit and my body's breaking down.

Well, I will say there's a mild flu effect that you can also get from AS use. In fact I'd say most people get it the first month or two at least. I was very lethargic in the mornings. My temperature was running high, always over 99 degrees. But it was different than what I was going through from training naturally because when I was motivated there was enough healthy aggression to power me through physical work.
 
Dianabol is a solid steroid for producing tissue growth, while yeah it will out some water weight on you it can be largely managed via proper diet and ancillary compounds. But this short cycle with low doses is not really going to do any thing if at all but bloat you out and shut you down. 3 weeks is nothing especially when your your just beginning, its a different ball game when your a top level athlete and your puttign the afterburners on for a given event. But it comes down to a few basic points when you are first starting out with AAS:
1: AAS are not magic they are just another tool in the box when it comes to training.
2: Diet and training are by far more important when you are first beginning then AAS
3: When you get to a point where AAS is an option ( a few years of natural training with a solid understanding of your body your diet and the compounds you are about to use)
Once you have meant these 3 points you can sit down and read the Your first cycle, nut up and buy some injectable Test.

As for the early days of athletes that were making gains with small doses, its entirely possible, especially when you are looking at the athletes they were talking about: top tier athletes that have a vast understand of how their body works, and how to push it to get every little drop out of it. So its plausible.

As for the rest No one on the site uses SWIM, so don't bother. In fact we are fairly open here on the SD forum in particular, so just read a bit and you will see what I am talking about.The flu your referring to is generally known as test flu. Not every one gets it an din fact the better your gear the least likely you are to get it. The progression your talking about is the general for cats over 25 that get into AAS, the simile you made is apt and one I have used a fair amount of times as well. The fact being you can ice the cake all you want if its shit under neath your just icing a shit cake.
 
Dianabol is a solid steroid for producing tissue growth, while yeah it will out some water weight on you it can be largely managed via proper diet and ancillary compounds. But this short cycle with low doses is not really going to do any thing if at all but bloat you out and shut you down. 3 weeks is nothing especially when your your just beginning, its a different ball game when your a top level athlete and your puttign the afterburners on for a given event. But it comes down to a few basic points when you are first starting out with AAS:
1: AAS are not magic they are just another tool in the box when it comes to training.
2: Diet and training are by far more important when you are first beginning then AAS
3: When you get to a point where AAS is an option ( a few years of natural training with a solid understanding of your body your diet and the compounds you are about to use)
Once you have meant these 3 points you can sit down and read the Your first cycle, nut up and buy some injectable Test.

As for the early days of athletes that were making gains with small doses, its entirely possible, especially when you are looking at the athletes they were talking about: top tier athletes that have a vast understand of how their body works, and how to push it to get every little drop out of it. So its plausible.

As for the rest No one on the site uses SWIM, so don't bother. In fact we are fairly open here on the SD forum in particular, so just read a bit and you will see what I am talking about.The flu your referring to is generally known as test flu. Not every one gets it an din fact the better your gear the least likely you are to get it. The progression your talking about is the general for cats over 25 that get into AAS, the simile you made is apt and one I have used a fair amount of times as well. The fact being you can ice the cake all you want if its shit under neath your just icing a shit cake.

Well I've heard test flu, but I've also heard tren flu and general fatigue thrown around a lot by people starting a cycle for the first time and expecting some sort of energy boost. Maybe if you're 60 and you start out with HRT levels. There's actually been some research into the phenomena believe it or not, trenbolone specifically if I'm not mistaken. Patrick Arnold wrote an article about this awhile back and in the case of tren it was linked to interaction with thyroid hormones and prolactin. He's also made some comments here and there about methods to fight steroid induced fatigue while on a cycle. I might ask him about it sometime on the net if it comes up again. I've heard some people were even using corticosteroids to fight the fatigue with some success although Pat says many steroids don't reduce cortisol to begin with, halotest was one I think he mentioned.

Generally guys are in for the rude awakening I received if they're expecting to be up and at 'em in the morning a week into their cycle. If test is part of that equation- as it was for me- you'll wake up with a huge boner most days but not a lot of energy.

The old guys and dbol? Legend has it that Larry Scott never took more than 20mg of dbol in a day. At least that's what he claims. Arnold has also claimed miniscule doses of dbol and yet there were eyewitnesses that have said they've seen him grab a handful, wash it down and yell out "Let's train!".

Long and short of it is that for me 20mg is the perfect dose to take along with 400mg+ of test or deca a week for 8 weeks or so.
 
Well it depends, on 19nors it is common to get fatigue, and test flu is just a catch all for being like you said tired and run down when starting a cycle. Yeah the fatigue issue is an intricate one as well, when you look at the system as a whole. You have every thing from the 19nors doing their things, to lack of calories, blood sugar flux, cortisol can be one thing but really thats not a fatigue issue but more of an stress reaction to dieting and extreme training. 11-oxo works well at controlling cortisol, as to the cortical steroids, thats a BAD idea, as they have been shown to decrease bone density, while it may help with injuries initially even Drs discontinue cortical steroids after a period as the begin to add to the problem of muscle and bone density loss.

But yes most cats are in for it when they think hey I will have boundless energy lol, doesn't happen, unless like you said your an older guy with shitty test to begin with, though proper diet and training seem to energize most once they are in a solid routine. The D-bol issue is you have to remember that there is 99 stories of misinformation for the 1 piece of information, look at Arnold in Pumping Iron he openly admits to toying with Franco and he was the guys friend, and then the screaming while posing advice to the poor bastard that he did that to. . .

20mg is a solid dose, I shoot for between 40-50mg. I have also been training since I was in middle school, and am a big bastard, 6'3'' 220 as it stands now, and plan to be hitting 235-240 by end of summer. On my planned cycle 30wks, I will blow the fuck up, but Ill have half that time to trim down to where I want. 8 weeks on D-bol? eh id rather drop it to 6, and throw the length of the cycle out to 12-14 weeks, and let the deca do its thing. run the deca lower then test if you still want to have some time with the misses.
 
Test-Flu:
Flu and cough like symptoms are often anaphylactic reactions to co-solvents. It doesn't have anything to do with AAS or esters. Its more likely to occur with shorter esters, because more often a larger dose of co-solvent is used to get enough of the shorter ester to remain in solution......
 
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right I was just commenting on the fact that people often get fatigue when usign large amounts of 19nors, not that they them selves are the cause of the test flu. Should have made that more obvious to be honest, also the anaphylatictic reaction could be caused by a carrier oil as well as a solvent, or any thing else that is foreign in the solution.
 
Test-Flu:
Flu and cough like symptoms are often anaphylactic reactions to co-solvents. It doesn't have anything to do with AAS or esters. Its more likely to occur with shorter esters, because more often a larger dose of co-solvent is used to get enough of the shorter ester to remain in solution......

Well I can tell you that with many different brands and many different steroids I've had the same fatigue and so has nearly everybody else that I've spoken to about the matter. We can split hairs about what's causing it but there's more going on that just benzyl alcohol causing fatigue.

The unwise people who have chosen to do oral only cycles experience the same effect if the doses are large enough. Google "dbol fatigue".

I've heard a lot of different explanations and the truth is that in many cases it could be several factors at once. Here are several factors that can come into play: hypertension, disturbance of normal sleep patterns (one of the many ways this can be affected is the fact that the slight elevation of body temperature while "on" can significantly affect sleep as any "tren" user will tell you), lowering of cortisol, and disturbance of feedback loops related to thyroid hormones. With trenbolone we know for a fact that it causes increased prolactin release and increased prolactin lowers circulating thyroid hormone.

The whole "it's just BA" thing and the "dirty gear" explanations are largely broscience.
 
And I've even heard respectable writers say on the matter- William Llewellyn for instance- that there's no test flu at all, it's only when using anti-estrogens or taking non-aromatizing steroids that there is fatigue.
 
Its a common side effect though it can have many causes. Like I said it could be any thing from your not eating correctly ( often the case as your body is struggling to deal with the fact that now your muscles are hoarding glycogen) to the fact of anaphylaxis, though it is usually a combination of events, extra training = increased caloric needs + a rise in cortisol + the muscles new demands via the compounds your using. Not to mention increased stress on the liver, and the digestion is effected by an increase in protein, ect ect ect. But Test flu tends to be the catch all for a series of different issues. As to calling dirty gear and the solvents broscience, not so fast some people have issues with specific solvents, be it BA/ EO/Guaiacol. Then yes there is the issue of estrogen, some is necessary, and yes the AI's all have fatigue listed in their medical profiles.

The fact is it is a complex system issue rather then a pin point issue with 90% of the cases, as the average cat on AAS has no idea about interdependent nature of the body its hormones and diet and training. I mean there are some very very complex biochemical processes going on here, as well as some very interesting interplay between physical and mental aspects of the process as they can radically change the neurochemistry of a given person as well.

* a note I use your in the royal sense of the term: that is to say to refer to every one and not just the person to which I am addressing the comments*
 
Well I can tell you that with many different brands and many different steroids I've had the same fatigue and so has nearly everybody else that I've spoken to about the matter. We can split hairs about what's causing it but there's more going on that just benzyl alcohol causing fatigue.

The whole "it's just BA" thing and the "dirty gear" explanations are largely broscience.

Fatigue is a different issue... Note I stated: Flu and cough like symptoms are often anaphylactic reactions to co-solvents. Not fatigue..!!!
 
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