16 months on pods - Tapering completely in 4 weeks (log)

[Bojangles69]

Ok excellent I'm swallowing those mfkrs as I type this. Much appreciated!

edit: I also have another sample pack of 6 kava kava I just found, I know I can take all of those so I'm gonna take both and see what happens. Thats it for finding free sample packs in my house though. And thanks veggies for thinking of that it was a great call.

 

[HamClamp]

A gram of two of the Phenibut ought to help and/or the Kava too.

I too wonder if the Kratom is causing you trouble? I've used it many times in the past during and after tapers and I've got to tell you- I NEVER felt right with that stuff. It just never really agreed with me. I always felt edgy (like you describd) and always felt as if I was under-dosed or over dosed. No matter what strain, no matter what extract, blend, etc., nothing ever really worked for me. I ALWAYS felt funky be it too hot, too cold, shaky, depressed, semi-nauseous, etc.

Try to take a time-out and lay back and do some serious deep-breathing relaxation if you can. Get those lungs working and try to calm and comfort yourself. Load up on Lope in the morning and I'll betcha you'll feel a lot better.

Remember: This IS temporary. It WILL pass. You WILL feel better. It's just that damn addiction trying to sneak in the back door. It's mad because you kicked its ASS.

Breathe deeply and hang tough. YOU can do it.

Sending good vibes your way.

 

[Bojangles69]

A gram of two of the Phenibut ought to help and/or the Kava too.

I too wonder if the Kratom is causing you trouble? I've used it many times in the past during and after tapers and I've got to tell you- I NEVER felt right with that stuff. It just never really agreed with me. I always felt edgy (like you describd) and always felt as if I was under-dosed or over dosed. No matter what strain, no matter what extract, blend, etc., nothing ever really worked for me. I ALWAYS felt funky be it too hot, too cold, shaky, depressed, semi-nauseous, etc.

Try to take a time-out and lay back and do some serious deep-breathing relaxation if you can. Get those lungs working and try to calm and comfort yourself. Load up on Lope in the morning and I'll betcha you'll feel a lot better.

Remember: This IS temporary. It WILL pass. You WILL feel better. It's just that damn addiction trying to sneak in the back door. It's mad because you kicked its ASS.

Breathe deeply and hang tough. YOU can do it.

Sending good vibes your way.

Wow you basically described exactly how it makes me feel too. Like I take my dose and initially am brought back to feeling better. But in like an hour or 2 I start noticing almost all those symptoms you mentioned. What sticks out is you said "too hot" instead of "hot flashes", even though I said hot flashes it really doesn't feel like typical pod hot flashes, it feels like my skin is just getting hot.. then cold, but not exactly hot flashes or chills its weird.

The edginess, SHAKINESS, feeling either underdoses or overdosed just WOW. Thats exactly how I feel on this crap. Either I take a dose and it doesn't seem to do anything, or I take too much and turn into a stimulated and uncoordinated mess.
I'm really thinking now its the kratom fucking me up. Well tommorows my last dose of it so Im absolutely gonna find out. If I feel even a little better a couple days after that then I'll know it was the kratom. But thanks for the candid description of the symptoms you experience, its like an exact replica of how I feel right now just + tiredness and a bit of RLS.

 

[Carl Landrover]

Wow you basically described exactly how it makes me feel too. Like I take my dose and initially am brought back to feeling better. But in like an hour or 2 I start noticing almost all those symptoms you mentioned. What sticks out is you said "too hot" instead of "hot flashes", even though I said hot flashes it really doesn't feel like typical pod hot flashes, it feels like my skin is just getting hot.. then cold, but not exactly hot flashes or chills its weird.

That's how my hot and colds usually are.

Sometimes I'll actually feel hot and I'll start sweating, but for the most part the hot is the hot skin feeling. Then it'll switch over and I'll suddenly have goosebumps.

I've never used kratom and I don't know much about it, but I would think it could effect your taper.


I honestly think that if you can make it to the weekend you'll start feeling better and that if you can make it to Monday you'll start feelin' a lot more normal. There still might be some mental funk that you'll have to work on, but the physical part should really subside big time. Have you still been running at all?

 

[Bojangles69]

That's how my hot and colds usually are.

Sometimes I'll actually feel hot and I'll start sweating, but for the most part the hot is the hot skin feeling. Then it'll switch over and I'll suddenly have goosebumps.

I've never used kratom and I don't know much about it, but I would think it could effect your taper.


I honestly think that if you can make it to the weekend you'll start feeling better and that if you can make it to Monday you'll start feelin' a lot more normal. There still might be some mental funk that you'll have to work on, but the physical part should really subside big time. Have you still been running at all?

Yeh Ive been trying to run at least 4 times a week but had to take today off as the fatigue became unbearable. And that sweating can easily get out of control when I get hot like that. I know something as simple as getting dressed will leave me with trickles of sweat in only like 20 seconds of moving around. Its absolutely disgusting when I actually work out how much I'm still sweating.

I'm just hoping like you said its only a matter of a few more days. And I'm hoping once I take my last dose of kratom tommorow that I start to feel a little better. I think in all liklihood I had some wds left that the kratom are just delaying, and everytime it wears off I get hit with wds I should have experienced on day 1. It seems like kratoms in the same boat with any other opiate and delaying wds. It just doesn't make sense why I'm still getting hot flashes and RLS almost a week later.
And the mental funk is absolutely the worst part. It doesn't allow you to to stay motivated or strong at all which is what got me through most of this taper in the first place. Like after even 3 days of not sleeping I could manage to still be optimistic. Now I'm close to day 7 w/out sleep and I feel on the brink of insanity. Maybe if I get even 5 hours of sleep tonight I may feel a slight improvement tommorow. It just sucks because I'm still kicking my legs and my eyes are half open as I write this. If I lay down in my bed I'll most likely close my eyes and just sit there moving my feet around.
It HAS to be the kratom I'll def keep updating to see how it all pans out. And I'm still not sure if I'm even taking the seroquel, its such a long acting drug to commit to I've slept for like 16 hours before on that crap while in detox last time. I might just go smoke a bowl now and see if I can sleep.

Alright thanks guys once again for all the quick responses you guys are really a huge support system for me now more than ever.

edit: one more thing real quick about the kratom. The kratom DID help a TON for the last 4-5 days before the jump off. It was extremely difficult at that point and I admit kratom helped me more than anything to actually jump off the pods. But I just want people to remember when they're getting off opiates almost ANYTHING you think is helping you at the time can seemingly come back and kick you in the ass. I feel almost like I'm going through that sub situation again where I was slammed with wds when I switched back to pods. For 3 weeks I kept saying "wow this sub is great what can .75mg really do to me?" and than boom I get knocked on my ass. Same thing with kratom towards the end of my taper I was thinking "this stuff helps like nothing else" and now right around when I should be feeling pretty stable I'm still dealing with wds.
I think the best way to go really is to just jump off the pods with no assistance from anything. Anything that "assists" you is really just hiding wds in the end and I can't forget that anymore as I've just had enough with this decietful shit.

 

[veggies]

Really? wow I think I actually have some on hand that I bought like 2 years ago! let me check..

edit: yeh I do haha I seem to have the most random shit in my house. Ok I have a sample pack and I've never actually taken it before (it came free with kratom years ago) it has 6 - 500mg phenibut, should I take them all you think? I'm willing to try anything at this point.

Hey, I'm a little late on the response here, but I'd say start with 1.5 grams and go from there. It takes quite a long time to kick in (as in a few hours for some people), especially so the first few times it's used. If you took all 6 already, then 3 grams should be large dose and if you react well to phenibut you may already be asleep , assuming you don't already have some sort of GABA tolerance.

Hopefully it helps!

 

[HamClamp]

Kratom=ugh. I literally shudder just thinking about how it makes me feel. While none of the symptoms of Kratom are too bad on their own for me it's the whole gamut, five or six negatives, that just add up to a total "yucky" feeling. It's pretty ridiculous but "yucky" seems to best describe how I feel on Kratom.

Do you think that maybe you're in that really hypersensivite place where everything is amplified now that the synapses are firing full-force and maybe you just need to knock out out any part of pod, Kratom, Sub, or any other opiate altogether? In other words take that final leap? I'm by no means trying to push you whatsoever. I'm just thinking back and I always hesitate out of fear when it comes to that first jump off from ALL things opiate (I'm including Kratom as an opiate although technically it is an opioid ) . I know it is time but I don't want it to be time yet. I fear that leap to the point of near panic.

That is the most terrifying part of the whole thing for me: facing the next moment with NO opiate whatsoever. And no i'm not exagerrating with the word "terrifying". It scares the hell out of me! Is any of this resonating with you tonight? Sometimes simply identifying why we're feeling whatever we're feeling provides some relief. Just throwing some ideas out there...

Holy crap you took all 6 of those Phenibut caps AND the Kava? I'll just wish you a good night right now because chances are you're goin' nitey-nite for a stretch ha ha! I certainly hope you do anyhow...

Hang tough and I hope you get some shut-eye.


Peace.

 

[Bojangles69]

Hey, I'm a little late on the response here, but I'd say start with 1.5 grams and go from there. It takes quite a long time to kick in (as in a few hours for some people), especially so the first few times it's used. If you took all 6 already, then 3 grams should be large dose and if you react well to phenibut you may already be asleep , assuming you don't already have some sort of GABA tolerance.

Hopefully it helps!

Haha you were spot on once again. 6 was absolutely too much I just walked outside and tripped going down the stairs to smoke a cig. Then when I was walking back in I noticed my entire body was off balance and I was walking in a Z fashion. I just can not coordinate my walk for shit right now. I took it like 2 hours ago and definitely feel it. Not particularly tired but I'm definitely somewhat sedated. So hopefully it will do something.
But wow I am dizzy right now I def should have just done 3.

Kratom=ugh. I literally shudder just thinking about how it makes me feel. While none of the symptoms of Kratom are too bad on their own for me it's the whole gamut, five or six negatives, that just add up to a total "yucky" feeling. It's pretty ridiculous but "yucky" seems to best describe how I feel on Kratom.

Do you think that maybe you're in that really hypersensivite place where everything is amplified now that the synapses are firing full-force and maybe you just need to knock out out any part of pod, Kratom, Sub, or any other opiate altogether? In other words take that final leap? I'm by no means trying to push you whatsoever. I'm just thinking back and I always hesitate out of fear when it comes to that first jump off from ALL things opiate. I know it is time but I don't want it to b time yet. I fear that leap to the point of near panic.

That is the most terrifying part of the whole thing for me: facing the next moment with NO opiate whatsoever. And no i'm not exagerrating with the word "terrifying". It scares the hell out of me! Is any of this resonating with you tonight? Sometimes simply identifying why we're feeling whatever we're feeling provides some relief. Just throwing some ideas out there...

Holy crap you took all 6 of those Phenibut caps AND the Kava? I'll just wish you a good night right now because chances are you're goin' nitey-nite for a stretch ha ha! I certainly hope you do anyhow...

Hang tough and I hope you get some shut-eye.


Peace.

A lot of what you said rings 100% true just that I'm honestly not that terrified of the idea of stopping all opiates completely. I'm more terrified honestly of ever going back to the high doses I was taking before and feeling like there was absolutely no way out. Like that feeling scares me more than anything once the control is gone and you lose the motivation to even get the control back.. becomes quite the catch 22.

As far as the idea of stopping everything completely thats absolutely what I think I need to do the most right now. I didn't think the kratom would have this big of an effect but I've also never used it for wds before. I've only used it alone by itself years and years ago and went straight to poppies afterwards so I never experienced the kratom wds (which at one point I never believed in till now).
It definitely does NOT leave me feeling "right" at all and I totally understand that hypersensitive feeling you're talking about. I actually was describing that feeling a handful of times before but I was using the phrase "I feel exposed", as almost like my skin was peeled off and every bit of stimulation was going right to my brain. Not in a painful way really, just hypersensitive like you said and akward.

I just got done actually reading about phenibut and it looks like a good deal of people have serious issues walking straight the entire day after. I feel it already now I can't coordinate myself at all. I'm hoping I can run tommorow w/out falling off the treadmill but I guess we'll see when the time comes. =]

Ok thanks again guys I'm gonna hit the sheets & I'll be back tommorow!

 

[Help me please]

Bo, please be careful. If you feel at all better tomorrow go to the pharmacy and stock up on anything you may need for the next few weeks. But please promise me you won't drive unless you are OK to. Call someone who can run an errand for you.

The kratom, which I have no clue about at all, may be hurting you. Your body needs to heal and anything that doesn't help it can hurt it, you know? Yeah you do know Bo.

I wish I could help you.

 

[HamClamp]

Hope you got some sleep!

That fear I spoke of is not a fear of living clean. My clean years were damn good years. I felt good and accomplished much. For me, that time after the last taper dose, before the jump, for some reason just freaks me out. It's an irrational fear for sure. At that moment, intellectually I know it's for the best, I want to get clean, but there is that irrational anxiety of taking that last (first!) step into the life ahead without my false-friend, my crutch, my old "friend" opiates. There is a great vulnerability at that time for me. I feel raw, naked to the world, and frankly quite fearful. Since you're right there at the tail-end of one hell of a long road and a lot of tough work, I was wondering if perhaps that was causing you undo stress. I in no way meant to imply that you're in any way afraid of life ahead without dope. The courage and perseverance you've displayed thus far negates any suggestion of cowardice and in fact displays the contrary: You've been tremendously courageous and an inspiration to many. I'm sorry if I in any way hurt your feelings or otherwise devalued your efforts.

I sure hope you're feeling better today after catching some sleep. I'm sure the Phenibut helped. Looking forward to hearing from you further!

Be strong!

 

[Bojangles69]

/\ Oh yeh I know what you're saying now. Absolutely that jump off is SCARY I agree with that. Which is exactly why I couldn't do it prior to vacation when I initially planned. I still think if I actually did jump off back then there was a 90% chance I would have went back to pods the next day anyway. It was just too short a taper was the real issue.
After I got like 3-4 weeks more of the taper accomplished, I started really feeling like "this jump off can't beat me" there was just no way at that point. It was a matter of feeling like the addiction finally "broke" and believe it or not I had one specific day I woke up where I kinda felt like I had broke it. Its hard to explain but I woke up that day and felt like the intensity of the wds had dropped more than ever. Although afterwards they were still there is was more that they were ALWAYS there (frequency of wds) more than them actually being bad (intensity). And the minute I felt that drop in intensity I realized it was a matter of days before I could finally stop.
But it was still definitely scary, just nothing like when I first started this taper.

Update!

Ok so the phenibut worked and I'm astonished at the raw power of this "otc" supplement. This is not a supplement at all this shit feels like a cross between GHB and a weird benzo of some sort. But I had many classic GABA effects that I don't even get from benzos unless I take a ton.
The motor control was FLOORED. I slept for **14** hours. Thats no joke considering I've been sleeping 2-3 hours a night. To just go from a few hours of sleep to 14 you can get an idea how powerful 3gms of phenibut is. And I had came back here and said "it kicked in" like 2 hours after I took it... it had NOT kicked in lol that feeling grew for another 2 hours and I was feeling like I had just pounded a bottle of vodka as my head was spinning all over the place.

I sat down feeling a bit nautious from the spinning and actually began "nodding out" but more of a GABA nod I suppose. And I woke up at 2pm with my tv on, air conditioner on (I always shut if off before bed), computer on, and had kicked a plate of food in my sleep off the table and it was all over the floor. I'm wondering if last night I actually still had RLS (by kicking the plate lol) but just wound up sleeping through it. Its odd though cause once I start kicking I usually wake right up. For whatever reason I slept through it which was a nice change.

I considered getting more phenibut but the hangovers are a little too intense. I also did reading about it saw its often used for wds, and I did feel pretty good today for the most part. I was just still high I think from the phenibut and couldn't really feel them. Its about 18 hours later and its JUST starting to wear off as I'm gaining some motor control back. No way I could make it to the gym as I didn't think I should be driving (or really trying to walk).

I took my little bit of kratom at 2pm, it was about 10% of the total dose I took yesterday, as I just save a tiny bit for today. And I already feel better than yesterday. I don't think its actual wds at this point I think its the come down from kratom that is really messing me up. I seem to experience wds as soon as I come down from it, but they're not like long term wds where I wake up the next day and they're worse. So I noticed just from that drop I already feel better, just still pretty dizzy.

As far as recommended phenibut to anyone in the future I think its truely a wonderful drug and its sad to see I had to have it recommended so late in the taper. I may pick up a botte just to have 500mg everyday, but I also read it has wds all by itself when you stop so that removed most of my temptation to actually get it. It COULD have been useful though earlier in the taper, and at least I got sleep one night so I'm ok for now. I guess its still a waiting game and hopefully w/out the kratom I'll be brought back to normalcy any day now... but I'll give it till next monday before I snap and really start to lose it. Its hard the sleep thing but I do really think removing the kratom was the most important thing I had to do.

Thanks!

 

[leiphos]

so I finally jumped off, though I have a cushy 10mg loperamide landing. I've been on this dose for 3 days about w/o any pods. I feel pretty sick in the mornings and sometimes at night, but this dose is holding me. When I feel ready, I'm going to start dropping by 0.5mg every day or two - just don't know when that will be...

I've definitely cut back on my other drug use, particularly the stimulants. Even though what you said, Bo, was an oversimplification, the language you used really moved me in the days that followed, and I realized I was sabotaging myself. I don't think other drugs will lead me back to opiates, but the whole reason I've quit opiates is because I am seeking a sober life.

Also, Bo, why are you taking kratom now, isn't that addictive in its own way?

EDIT: I realize you said you stopped taking the kratom, but why were you taking it in the first place?

 

[veggies]

Update!

As far as recommended phenibut to anyone in the future I think its truely a wonderful drug and its sad to see I had to have it recommended so late in the taper. I may pick up a botte just to have 500mg everyday, but I also read it has wds all by itself when you stop so that removed most of my temptation to actually get it. It COULD have been useful though earlier in the taper, and at least I got sleep one night so I'm ok for now. I guess its still a waiting game and hopefully w/out the kratom I'll be brought back to normalcy any day now... but I'll give it till next monday before I snap and really start to lose it. Its hard the sleep thing but I do really think removing the kratom was the most important thing I had to do.

Thanks!

Glad to hear it helped you get some sleep! It is really powerful stuff, especially so the first few times it is used. You could be OK using it for a few days in a row, but it really should be treated like a benzo in terms of usage. That is, only used for short periods of time (no more than a week straight if used daily, and less than that ideally), especially if doses larger than a gram are being used. GABA-based withdrawals are worse than opioid, to a lot of people.

 

[Bojangles69]

OK guys look I can't take it anymore I'm done.

I don't know if the problem is that I hold stuff in. But I lost it today and thought of about 16 million different ways to kill myself. This is NOT the type of person I am. I'm not a dramatic emotional person but I must have burst into tears at least 6 times today just driving down the road. My head hurts, my vission is fuzzy and detiorating, my witts are at their end.
Anytime I passed a telephone pole I'd "pretend sway" my car towards it and then drift back into the road with a completely blank face. Anytime I look in mirrors I dont know who I am anymore. Its really bad something is just not right in my head right now.

I did not sleep one fucking second last night. I'm not fighting this anymore because of whats it doing to my life. I would rather go back to my taper and delay this another week dosing every other day if I need just to give me time to get my hands on klonidine. I'm more than a week out and there is no reason at all to still be having nights where I don't even sleep for 10minutes.
I CAN fight through it longer I know that, but I guarantee I will break down and tell my family. And thats NOT happening. I was about 2 seconds from breaking down in front of my parents today, the second I walked in their house they just looked at my face and said "what the HELL is wrong with you?.. are you getting sick?" I just muttered "probably" and that was it. I just genuinely feel the sleep issue is not gonng resolve itself for another week maybe more, and I honestly don't have the strength anymore to deal with it.

I'm giving myself a few days of a break, and am trying whatever I can to get klonidine. But I'm just done with trying to fight this anymore. The 10mg of immodium I took last night didn't seem to do a single thing. Its not wds anymore its more the sleep and depression and my general mental health. My brain is telling me its going to self destruct if I don't get at least a little pods in my blood. And if I was looking for excuses to use I would go back and just use 50gms, thats obviously not what I'm doing, will just be taking what I need.

If I was any of you I would tell myself to just fight through it another day, its not happening. I need at least a week to get my head straight and then once I find something that works for sleep, I know I will be fine at a later point. I'm not buying more phenibut because I actually think I had some kind of rebound from that shit which just amplified everything.

But I'll continue to update it just scares me that suicide is becoming a "normal" thought in this recent days. I can't allow this kind of shit to be going on in my head or I'm eligible at this point to do something very dumb. So don't worry I just need some time on a low dose to get my head together. I don't have any more energy mentally or physically to fight with. I'm a strong person but I was beyond my breaking point days ago.

Will update as things come along.

edit: I'd like to direct a question towards Jay Johnson specifically, because I know Quasi had benzos during his taper although he cold turkeyed and got through it which still astonishes me.
But Jay were you drinking at the time when you jumped off your taper? How did you not have day after day of no sleeping? I'm curious exactly what you did because you jumped off and seemed ok after stopping the suboxone. But even after the sub did you not get hit by insomnia? What did you take to get through it?

 

[HamClamp]

Yo Bo!

Hang in there pal. If you need to dose a little to get it together than what the hell are you waiting for? Do it! There is NO shame in doing what you need to do to function right? Right! Do what YOU need to do to move through this.

Regarding talking to family and whatnot. Maybe you need to talk to them but... You can tell a little white lie along the way. Maybe bend the truth a little bit and make it as follows: "I've been drinking WAY too much these past few months and I've gone cold-turkey off the booze and I'm having one hell of a time" or something to that effect. I don't know your full situation but I know when it comes to my people a drinking problem is far more socially acceptable than being strung out on opies. Just an idea for you...

I'm glad you posted and got a little bit of the pressure off your chest. We don't need you wrapped around a pole for cryin' out loud. If you need to maybe call one of those help lines and bitch and moan and let it all out then do it. Post, as you did, or what about hitting up a methadone clinic and telling them what's going on and where you're at with this taper and maybe get the clonidine. Maybe hit the ER? again I'm not sure of your sitch..

Hang tough and if you need to dose then dose. There is no sense being in this state and having it wear you down as it is. Do what you've got to do to get some sleep. That will help you SO much. Might be a good time to have a couple beers if nothign else. wish I had mroe for yu man. Damn...

Keep us posted okay?

Good vibes coming your way bro.

 

[JayJohnson]

Damn Bo I don't know what to say, I'm sorry it's so rough for you. I'd rather you use more pods than off yourself. I do know what it's like to feel that shitty and consider suicide, it's an extremely difficult place to be.

Yeah, I was drinking after I quit the subs. I wouldn't usually do this, but in case it's helpful here is my log:
5.26 - 2nd day NO SUB!! (6:45am 6g indo with hot coffee) (9:00am 4g borneo & coffee) (did more at some point..) - at night (after drinking) had a little bit of difficulty getting to sleep, kind of restless leg
5.27 - feeling pretty damn good consider, I think I'm over any sub WD, any little nasty feelings are fixed with krtm (7:00am 6g indo with coffee) (8:50 4g borneo, 2g indo & hot coffee)
5.28 - 7:15am 4g indo, 2g borneo with hot coffee - 9:00 ~2g borneo ~4g indo with coffee)
5.29 - (drinking booze)
5.30 - (drinking booze)
5.31 - No booze today, no pot (8th day), no opiates (7th day)
6.1 - 2nd day no booze (alcohol withdrawal (5 on a scale of 10), 9th day no pot, 8th day opiates
6.2 - (drank) no pot: 10 days, no opiates: 9 days
6.3 - (drank) no pot: 11 days, no opiates: 10 days
6.4 - (drank) no pot: 12 days, no opiates: 11 days
6.5 - (drank) no pot: 13 days, no opiates: 12 days
6.6 - (drank) no pot: 14 days, no opiates: 13 days
6.7 - (couple drinks in AM, alcohol withdrawal within a few hours 5 out of 10), no pot: 15 days, no opiates: 14 days
6.8 - no Booze: 24 hours, pot: 16 days, opiates: 15 days (librium for AL WD)
6.9 - no Booze: 48 hours, pot: 17 days, opiates: 16 days (librium taper)
6.10 - no booze 3 days, no pot 18 days, no opiates 17 days (librium taper)
6.11 - no booze 4 days, no pot 19 days, no opiates 18 days (librium taper)
6.12 - no booze 5 days, no pot 20 days, no opiates 19 days (last 25mg of librium in morning)
6.13- no booze 6 days, no pot 21 days, no opiates 20 days
6.14- no booze 7 days, no pot 22 days, no opiates 21 days

So for like 2 weeks after the taper and suboxone I was drinking basically daily. Even then I had a few rough nights. But otherwise I was sleeping fairly well. Oh yeah, I'm on a tricyclic antidepressant that makes me very sleepy when I take it at night. Mix that with some booze and it's lights out. I think I see know how it `seemed` so easy for me to quit the opiates.

Notice that I was drinking so much that when I tried to quit drinking I was in familiar alcohol withdrawal territory. I have a very helpful doctor who knows the routine when I call in needing a librium prescription. She's been so awesome in helping me through the years, and I hate having to make that call.

I guess the only advice I have at this point is to find a way to get a doctor on your side to write some WD script(s). Fuck I wish I had a solution for you, but that's the best I have right now.

Hang on man, do what you need to do to kick the habit.

 

[Help me please]

so I finally jumped off, though I have a cushy 10mg loperamide landing. I've been on this dose for 3 days about w/o any pods. I feel pretty sick in the mornings and sometimes at night, but this dose is holding me. When I feel ready, I'm going to start dropping by 0.5mg every day or two - just don't know when that will be...

I've definitely cut back on my other drug use, particularly the stimulants. Even though what you said, Bo, was an oversimplification, the language you used really moved me in the days that followed, and I realized I was sabotaging myself. I don't think other drugs will lead me back to opiates, but the whole reason I've quit opiates is because I am seeking a sober life.

Also, Bo, why are you taking kratom now, isn't that addictive in its own way?

EDIT: I realize you said you stopped taking the kratom, but why were you taking it in the first place?

leiphos,

That is so cool. Keep up the great work!

 

[Help me please]

Bo I just wrote this long reply to you and the freaking server booted me for inactivity again. I can't see straight from being tired but please don't do anything you will regret! Take some pods if need be or that stuff you took that made you sleep. This is lack of sleep that is getting to you. It's making you think things...Maybe you have an infection you haven't noticed? Something that is hampering your recovery? Take a day off from trying to jump please!

 

[Bojangles69]

Thanks a lot Jay that explains a lot the move from alcohol to librium. I hate drinking during wds but it seems that prob carried you through most of the insomnia, and some of the other stuff you took had to help as well.
And thanks helpme I don't think its an infection I think I'm just particularly sensitive to insomnia and rls. I been reading a lot about rls and a lot of people say to drink tonic water which has quinine in it. Quinine is presribed for RLS and added to tonic water for flavoring. A lot of people say simple quinine can help RLS a lot. A lot of other people said RLS can be caused from a drop in magnesium/potassium/calcium levels. So I went out and stocked up on chaltrate (mag/calc) and potassium. I figure when the clonidine comes it won't hurt to have that and an arsenal of stuff for the RLS. I don't even remember RLS the first time however and I think it was because of the clonidine, and I always thought it was the seroquel that helped me sleep but now I think its the clonidine that actually helps more. Because seroquel alone does shit for sleep or RLS after the last time I took it. It had to be the clonidine when I was in detox that helped so much.
I use to complain about detox for not giving me an opiate during wds, but between the clonidine, 1mg klonopin, viserol (which I can get from my brother), and seroquel I remember feeling almost better than I did today. And whats crazy is that was a few days after cold turkey and this is about 8 days after a long ass taper.. which makes absolutely no goddamn sense at all.

So I'm gonna hang out on a low dose of pods so I can work somethings out. I feel pretty good now with the little amount I took, so I'll just do a quick quick taper right before the clonidine comes. It shouldn't hold me back at all. And I'm also considering getting some valium or ambien. Every little med helps, just that kratom was not the right path to take. It did shit for the RLS/insomnia.. actually seemed to make it worse. Alright well for now I'm back to normal, its amazing how quickly your DOC can put the brakes on hell. But the more and more I see how bad I get, and how instantaneously pods bring me back to feeling normal, the more and more I grow a rage inside towards this fucking plant, and the more respect I wind up having for it.

 

[Help me please]

Bo I am unclear but did you get a script for the clonidine?

Tonic water has very little quinine from what I recall. Something like 20 to 25 mg per glass. Pills are stronger but not without problems that can be serious like heart rhythm issues. I remember having this discussion with a nurse recently but don't recall why! So use caution please! Same with potassium levels. Heart can go wonky as a result.

Pods making you feel normal is just the pods trying to get you one last time. I understand that you need them right now to stop the torture your body is going through thinking about death, etc. Keep the rage Bo. Fuck the respect for the plant! It is evil. You just have to fight the monster a little while longer. You have come so far and have helped so many others. You won before the game ended dude!