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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

16 months on pods - Tapering completely in 4 weeks (log)

We are taught that we JUST SHOULD NOT feel certain emotions. Its not attractive for a woman to see a man cry as it sissifies your masculinity and all that bullshit. Its always being signaled to us that we shouldn't behave in certain ways, yet noone ever really explains a logical reason why.
So I believe do to this fact alone, A LOT of men can turn to drugs after their first break up and continue turning to drugs for break ups down the road.
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I vividly recall feeling sick when my first girlfriend broke up with me. At that point, the only drugs I used was the occasional drink and infrequent marijuana use (I was going to trial for possession). Looking at the situation logically, I'm glad that we broke up because we weren't a match at all and on some level I knew this, even then. But still being broken up with just makes you feel awful.

Opiates definitely stop you from coming to terms with things. I can only imagine how messed up I would've been had I started using kratom/poppy tea right then and there. When I began using opiates maybe a year later I was becoming quite lonely and was miserable with my life circumstance. Opiates helped so much that I didn't care if I got addicted, as was mentioned they seem to just cut you off from your emotions and replace everything with a thin layer of euphoria.

The problem of course is that you don't address your problems and/or move on properly from negative events. It make perfect sense to me that anyone who abused opiates around the time of a breakup is going to start thinking about that person after the opiates are gone. I know that sometimes when I got sick I felt like I had wasted too much time and had to go to college immediately, find a girlfriend, basically all of the things that I have completely put off just to get high.
 
Bo I can't believe you mentioned the seduction community, most people would have no idea what that is! I spent a good amount of time reading that stuff when I was younger and incredibly shy, and knew if I wanted to get laid I had to learn how to approach and talk to women. What a great time in my life that was. :)

As for the skydiving thing, iFly wind tunnels are fucking awesome! Actually, bang for the buck, I enjoyed the wind tunnel more than my tandem jump. But nothing compares to the absolute fear of being in an airplane and moving toward the open door. Then, jumping out is such a shock to the system. But then immediately the fear is gone and you are floating in the air. It's amazing - but over way too quick. (Skydiving is like crack, it's over way too fast and you just want more.)

But yeah, do yourself a favor and get to an `indoor skydiving` place! It's well worth the money! Surprisingly a good core workout also.
 
bo, dont you live in the seattle are!?! no, damn.

i just got so computer capable of running logic(mac only?! still) or cubase, and need collaborators!

yes every note generally has the same effect on most, timing, structure, scale progression, the addition of a 7 th that pulls st the heart just right.

i rambled in another thread a little ;) about music, and hospice, which is an undeniable desire/need i feel, i will do this with the right group of empathetic artists, environmental architects, soul soothers what have you one day...
music/sound, pace, color, aroma, the decor, and juxtaposing of a room and everything in it, can arouse any emotion.


ahg, bad mod is off topic.
:p
 
Panic, my husband can listen to music and it's just that...he listens to it. I feel it. I live for it. It owns my soul so deeply that I believe that's why I don't have a desire to take drugs. Music literally can make me high. I can feel my head changing just listening to different genres. I can change my breathing patterns. If I start to get depressed I only have to put the zune on and pull up a play list. There is always music on in my life. That's my DOC :)

I like most everything. C&W is a hard limit for me though I like southern rock like Skynrd and Allman Bros. Oh Polka is out! I like some rap and R&B. Mostly hard rock, metal, Goth glam and blues. Classical music too...very cleansing and soothing to the soul.
 
EMinem new cd RECOVERY you feel his REAL emotions , as famous as he is he has same feelings and issues we do
 
Ok I just wanna get an update going as I don't have time to do much else right now.

I got the weaker pods down to 4gms, which would be = to about 2gms of the older batch I was using just from the transition I did from 3gms to 6gms.

I'm really not on a scheduled taper at this point anymore I'm dipping my dose to trigger my wds than going back up again. Like yesterday I wound up taking off the whole day w/out pods just to guage where I was at, it was actually fairly difficult rounding hour 48 as the wds did start to surface.
Its nothing terrible its just the hot flashes, my body gets fatigued and really weighed down. I lose my energy and can't work out and lose my motivation to really do anything. That was the reason I started this whole taper so I'd still be able to be productive throughout it.

Well for about 3 days now I've been playing with the dose, and I was personally hoping the withdrawals were going to be a joke, but the fact is they're still enough to take you out of social obligations... which can't happen.
So at this point I'm doing more of a taper dance than anything. At some point I think because time is what it takes to catch a physical addiction time is going to be the same thing that breaks the physical addiction.

I'd really prefer not to rush this right now I just wanna dip the dose, come back up possibly to like a gram lower than I was before, and some how continue the dipping strategy while overall continuing to go lower.
I just don't feel good enough to drop another single gram today. So we'll wait and see how it goes tommorow. In all reality if I just stop I'd prob get over the worst of wds in a few days, but I really just can't do it right now. If I have a few days coming up where my schedules completely blank and I'm will so sacrifice working out then I'll do it, but for now I'm just sort of oscillating the dose trying to make my way lower while feeling comfortable. I have definitely noticed I should note its near impossible to feel comfortable on doses this low.

What it REALLY feels like is this just so people have a better idea what I'm talking about.
(metaphor time) I was walking through a forest one day lost, had no idea which way to go anymore so one day I stopped walking. A man came up to me with a map and handed it to me (the man representing bluelight) and said "here, you are lost, you need to find 'taper pool' it is about 100 thousand miles east in someones backyard. Heres the map... good luck finding it.

The thousand miles are obviously a symbol of the time it takes to taper and get off this crap.
So anyway, for most of this taper I've been walking through the forest. And I saw the trees ending and turning into a grass field. The grass field led to a pool. And on the diving board were the written words "jump off", this was definitely 'taper pool'.

If you don't jump into the pool after a taper, you always go back to using. So I have inched my feet across the diving board, and the diving board shakes MORE AND MORE the close I get to the edge... it shakes like crazy... taper pool is FREEZING COLD. It is a few degrees from hypathermia, so I dance on one leg dipping a foot to test the waters (symbolic of my dose drops and testing the withdrawal waters like I just started doing). But I can't just dip my foot once, I have to do it about a handful of times before I feel confident to jump. The water is too cold and I've walked too far, if I'm not in the right mindset I could drown for all I know.
But if I can keep my head above the water once I'm in... I KNOW I'll be fine.

I just need for the diving board to stop shaking (for wds to minimize) before I can really jump. But in the meantime I may possibly slip off into the pool (say fuck it and jump off out of mere stress) or the very unlikely slip onto the grass as I sprint back into the forest.

So right now I'm just gonna hang out on this diving board for a few more days and see what happens. Hopefully at least 1 person understood that, but it was really the only way I could get the details out to clarify my thoughts. Wish me luck! I must admit I'm getting very fucking nervous at this point I'm not sure if its how close I am or if its just the doses getting to me at this point. But I will continue on like I have with the rest of this taper. This is ultimately what it all comes down to. You either hold your nose and jump in, or you turn around and say fuck it.. which is definitely not happening lol.
 
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Carl Landrover said:
I'd like to actually get completely sober, but pot is going to be the last to go (if I have any say in it). Trying to quit opiates first, then stop the adderall usage I've taken up in the last several months, and then if I get through those 2 I'll try to stop smoking (vaporizing) weed. I don't have a problem with herb. It helps my stomach (which I've had issues with since I was little), I can afford it, and I can still go to work and school fine with using it.
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I thought that after opiates I'd start getting clean for real and for good, for once. I planned on smoking pot very occasionally, ditto with psychedelics - but surely no benzos, stimulants, alcohol, or other narcotics.

Well, this has all backfired. I'm down to about 3.5g with the pods, but at the same time I've begun drinking and taking stimulants everyday (MDPV, adderall, mephedrone), getting into disociatives like ketamine and PCP, and generally fucking up this process - except for the taper part. But now it's almost reaching the point where it's like, why did I bother quitting opiates in the first place? That addiction allowed me much more stability than my stimulant addiction of a couple years ago, and the way things are going now... I just don't know. Wish this was easier, but maybe it's just me; you guys seem to be doing fine
 
leiphos said:
I thought that after opiates I'd start getting clean for real and for good, for once. I planned on smoking pot very occasionally, ditto with psychedelics - but surely no benzos, stimulants, alcohol, or other narcotics.

Well, this has all backfired. I'm down to about 3.5g with the pods, but at the same time I've begun drinking and taking stimulants everyday (MDPV, adderall, mephedrone), getting into disociatives like ketamine and PCP, and generally fucking up this process - except for the taper part. But now it's almost reaching the point where it's like, why did I bother quitting opiates in the first place? That addiction allowed me much more stability than my stimulant addiction of a couple years ago, and the way things are going now... I just don't know. Wish this was easier, but maybe it's just me; you guys seem to be doing fine
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I personally have nothing left to abuse besides pot (as in nothing left psychologically). I don't drink and never really enjoyed even having just 1 beer. Even now the idea of drinking makes me sick as I personally hate the taste of alcohol (although in earlier years I did binge a bit).
Stimulants deteriorate your mental health and self esteem faster than any drug I've ever taken in my life, they were a bout all on their own like 10 years ago, but I have absolutely no temptation to take anything more than a cup of coffee right now.

If you want ME to be 100% honest with you, I believe you are purposely sabatoging your recovery because subconsiously you DO NOT want to quit opiates in the first place and you most likely felt more socially forced to stop than actually having a self will to do it.
If I was tapering off pods right now, and using meph or adderal or really any of that shit I would have honestly stopped the taper weeks ago and just gone back to using to be HONEST with my own self if nothing more.
You have a well of lies you can use now to go back to pods just because you're using other stuff.
"The adderal strings me out and pods will help me calm down"... "if Im just gonna catch an addiction to something else WELL I MIGHT AS WELL JUST GO BACK TO PODS AND FEEL STABLE"

comeon, you don't sound like someone who wants to quit. I'm barely even trying to take immodium through this taper because I'm actually afraid immodium is gonna start hiding wds for later. It is NOT hard to fuck yourself up in this process and tbo it sounds like you are trying pretty hard at this point to fuck yourself up.
I don't want you to feel bad, or like you're not doing things right.

I just think you need to really contemplate more time using. 2,3.. 5 more years of this lifestyle... does it bother you? How much so? Is it enough to completely stop you now?

Is it not enough to stop you now? Thats really all you need to know. If that desire is there its there, I think people complicate shit because they just tried to pretend a desire was there when it never really was.
If I'm wrong I apologize but it has to be obvious at the rate you're going, once the price of pods drop, that will be the last excuse you need to go back to that lifestyle.
 
JayJohnson said:
As for the skydiving thing, iFly wind tunnels are fucking awesome! Actually, bang for the buck, I enjoyed the wind tunnel more than my tandem jump. But nothing compares to the absolute fear of being in an airplane and moving toward the open door. Then, jumping out is such a shock to the system. But then immediately the fear is gone and you are floating in the air. It's amazing - but over way too quick. (Skydiving is like crack, it's over way too fast and you just want more.)
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I've only been once, but I thought the worst part was when the instructor was like, "Ok, now stick your legs out!" I was going to be the first to jump and was closest to the 'door', and when they opened the flap up and I looked down it was a weird feeling because every instinct is telling you not to stick your legs out.

Fortunately it's only a few seconds at most where you're hanging out of the airplane and before you know it you're flipping around in the air in a complete free-fall. Damn, I would love to do that again. If I can get clean I'm going to buy myself that as a gift and go along with a few other people. I know if you get 10 people you get a discount and that would be a hell of a lot of fun.

Anyways, I met with a therapist or counselor (not sure exactly what) today. My parents actually found him and set up the appointment and sort of surprised me with it. I was fine with it though since I think that some counseling would be useful. Guy seemed alright and I have another appointment next week, so I'll how that goes.
 
Made it 2 days on subs , bought some dope . im so stupid. and been takin way too many benzos. told parents i wanna go to rehab. they dont get it
 
Have you considered doing yoga? It helped me get through my taper. Those long cold evenings were (and still are) the hardest times for me to stay on the right path. Dedicating my time to something positive has distracted me from going back to opiates. Yoga is also easier to do than something like running when the w/d makes you fatigued.
 
comeon, you don't sound like someone who wants to quit. I'm barely even trying to take immodium through this taper because I'm actually afraid immodium is gonna start hiding wds for later. It is NOT hard to fuck yourself up in this process and tbo it sounds like you are trying pretty hard at this point to fuck yourself up.
I don't want you to feel bad, or like you're not doing things right.
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Hey man, I just wanted to say that in my experience, loperamide didn't really set me back very much. As you know, I didn't really taper my pod dosage and just rapidly dropped off. I did immediately begin a daily loperamide regimen. I think I was taking from 8 - 10 pills per day and I kept that up for the first 10 days or so, then began to taper down. I found that it was easy and practically painless to drop a pill every day or other day.

I didn't have any GI issue until I got down really low, around 3 pills nightly. I slowed down my reductions toward the end and noticed a little bit of bowel sensitivity even though I was sticking to around 3 pills for a long time. I was probably on the lope for the first 3 weeks of quitting just because I wasn't in any rush to get off them, poppy tea was enough for the time being and taking immodium was probably more just a psychological comfort than anything else. I mean it does work on withdrawals but in small doses it just doesn't do much at all. I mean 3 pills is practically the recommended dosage for the shits.

My only point is that if you can stop taking grounds and only take a couple of loperamide pills, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I never felt any more uncomfortable lowering my dose on them than whatever withdrawal I was already feeling (very mild after the first 2 weeks). I know that you say you didn't experience PAWS, and though I wouldn't say I had anything bad, I definitely had the sense that there were some slight lingering withdrawal effects, and these may have disguised further discomfort when I dropped the lope. But I was pretty sensitive to what my endorphins were doing so I dunno... I wouldn't be afraid to take 10 lope pills per day though for 10 days and drop them down again (not that there would be a purpose, but I'm just saying that to reinforce the fact that it didn't seem to cause any real psychological withdrawals).

Of course, in the end you should do whatever is comfortable. But I thought I'd just give you my experience. Hope all is going well my friend, it seems that you are very near to "landing the plane" safely with your taper (as opposed to nosediving straight into the ground like I did w/ cold turkey, lol).
 
Thanks bud I'm not going to have a choice I think but to actually up my loperamide or possibly double it at this point.
I've been hanging extremely low and to be honest I'm having a real hard time just staying this low, so dropping any lower is almost out of the question at least for these last couple of days.
I'm down to what is 3 "capfuls" of a 1 inch X 1/2" circular cap of my ivy spray bottle. I went from 7 capfuls down to 3 in these last 5 or 6 days. I can't even imagine its more than 1.5-2gms total. AND this is the weaker pods so I'm real low right now. The problem is this is absolutely the worst I've been feeling and I'm really thinking because I've started to officially withdraw at this point.

I haven't slept more then 4 hours a day since I was up to 7 capfuls basically, and I have a pretty consistent case of RLS 24/7 now. The reason I really haven't been taking any immodium (4 pills every 3 days) is because I can't lose weight on immodium and have also been doing a lot of exercise. Anytime I dose the immodium I feel extremely fat as I've been eating 6 clean body building meals a day now and the immodium prevents it from moving out my system quick enough (I get horrible sharp pains in my stomach).
I'm going to have to go back to like 2 or 3 meals a day otherwise I'm just not going to be passing quick enough.. and then I'm gonna take a hit at the gym cutting my caloric intake down so much. But at this point I'm starting to accept I have no choice but to take around 10-12 pills like you said. I just feel very "exposed" right now, like my nerves are turned inside out.
Last time I took 12 immodium I didn't feel a single withdrawal or anything, and I'm sure it will hold me over so I can stop the pods completely.

But what I did today was not dose at all yet (I'm around about 32 hours) and as I write this I'm eating yogurt and about 7gms of kratom. + I'm gonna take an inderal cause my blood pressure is officially through the roof. I want to see if the kratom does ANYTHING at all for the withdrawals just because I have so much so I might as well try and make use of it.

Thats it for now basically I'm gonna wait another hour and see if this kratom can hold me over, if not I'm just gonna does my tiny amount of pods then I'll have to take a trip to cosco today to pick up a bottle of lope. And once I have more lope in my hands Im sure things will get easier. I've just been putting off buying more because it does have effects on my body I don't like, but I have to accept the fact that its still 100 times better to take then not take in terms of wds.
I'll be back later to update and let everyone know how the day panned out. Later!
 
Ahh dude- the RLS and the sleepless nights are just pure torture. Hang in there bro! Have you been keeping up with your cardio? That helped my RLS a bit when I was withdrawing. Also, NyQuil helped a little too (though some people say it makes the RLS worse).

All the best!
 
/\ Yes I've been doing cardio 4 times a week and lifting 4 times as well. It DOES absolutely help with RLS it basically eliminates it for half a day after I do cardio. I usually get to the gym around 2-3pm and the RLS generally doesnt reappear till it wakes me up early in the am. And then I basically just deal with it till later in the day.

Update time!!!

Ok things are going good for once. Not good in terms of feeling good but good in terms of I'm starting to sense that the poppies are finally giving up!! What I mean is once I got to a certain dose I started withdrawing somewhat consistently, and although I'm losing a lot of sleep and have RLS today and late yesterday I all around just felt a lot more stable. I think I just had a bit of wds I had to get through because I seemed to have transitioned into a new phase or something.
What happened was yesterday instead of taking pods I took kratom in yogurt, and instantly about 20mins later I felt wonderful. I think I may have caught a little buzz actually off the kratom. Well I did because I was real dizzy and was having problems coordinating my walk.

But I realized yesterday by how strongly the kratom worked, that I'm basically in the clear I think. Because even after the kratom wore off early afternoonish, by night I didn't really feel a reintroduction of wds. So I wound up taking just a teensy weensy amount of pods in consideration of the morning RLS (which I still got anyway lol AND I should note if I'm getting RLS symptoms only 8 hours after a dose I think I should be peaking much earlier too and not even realizing it).
Today I slept again about 4 hours and was awoken by the RLS, but I smiled realizing I can definitely deal with everthing I'm experiencing now (knock on wood). AGAIN today I genuinely felt like I didn't need the pods. I woke up, had kratom in yogurt and was able to go the rest of the day not feeling like I needed pods.
I was real happy because usually I get that "exposed" psychological feeling that just pushed me to redose. But my mind seems to be getting stronger or something I don't know. Although I didn't feel like I needed the dose at all I still took 2 capfuls, which was 1 capful less than yesterday.. and I honestly felt like my body just didn't need it. I didn't get "better", I didn't get worse, it just seemed like such a small amount that its not doing anything anymore in either direction really.
So I really started thinking today "I'm ready to end this". This was 3 days in a row where I was able to make it 36 hours with VERY minor wds. I mean the lack of sleep and RLS definitely suck, and leave me drained, but its still a joke in comparison to even moderate wds.

I don't want to guarantee for sure yet that I'm jumping off tommorow. But I'm thinking I'll do a little less kratom in yogurt, and go through the night w/out any pods at all. If I wake up the next morning and have similar RLS to the day before, then I'll know I can skip another day. But essentially I'll have to wait and see if the wds actually escalate and to what extent they're gonna get worse. Now I can still be very wrong with all my estimate because I'm not technically in the clear at all till 72 hours. But I'm just trying to judge by how the wds escalate to 36-48 hours whether or not they're really going to get much worse by hour 72. I'd assume they would, but I don't know it just doesn't feel all that bad.

Not to mention I haven't had any lope in my blood AT ALL for about 4 days now. I just never reupped on it but its motivating me further. Because in the event I DO peak and have annoying wds, I still have the choice of dosing on lope to fix it rather than pods. So lets hope I can do it. I'm going to skip tommorow (assuming I feel stable like today and yesterday I DID drop another capful so who knows what will happen) and if I can get to around hour 48-70ish I'll at least know where I stand with wds.

The only think that can get me is the RLS and sleep really. If my day 3 I've slept 6 hours total, and am kicking like a nutjob I'm going to need to redose at least a little. But it really is a minute by minute play. At any rate I'm feeling like I can definitely get to the end of day 2, and chances are I'm already really peaking by that time just due to the miniscule size doses I'm taking.
I mean does anyone know about that?

When I use to take massive 80gms doses I wasn't till hour 48 that wds started and hour 72 that I peaked. But on like a 1-2gms worth, shouldn't I technically be peaking sooner? I'm assuming that small amount of pods is being burnt out of my body quick and I should be peaking sooner in wds than with my higher doses. Does that sound possible or is it just wishful thinking? I don't know either way but lets see if we can take 2-3 days off this habit and piss the pod gods off.
Worst case scenario I'll need to redose but I just haven't felt these last 2 days like I even needed the small amounts I was taking. 5-6 gms of kratom brings me back to life and as long as I taper that I think I should be set.

Ok guys wish me luck!!! I would be real sweet if I can get to hour 72 feelings only a little worse than hour 36, but we'll find out soon enough either way. Wooo hoooo I am actually pumped to attempt this jump off for once!!!
 
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Bo - I've lost any kind of grasp as to what you are going through COMPARED to what I was. I can't make the connection anymore - I think duration of use, quality of pods, and use of things like lope, weed, or kratom (and booze for me) have made our experiences very different.

I wish I could offer advice or something more concrete than just `keep doing what you are doing...` But, here we are and you seem to be doing great (considering what you are dealing with.) It sucks the amount of sleep deprivation and RLS you are dealing with. I really wish I could help you with that. But your experience is not mine, that's for sure. Just too many variables between us I guess! But at this point, it's all about you dealing with you are going through and using what you have at your disposal to get through it. I believe you are doing that well. Congrats you've come a long way!

I'd just say, keep using the kratom to help you, and lope and/or weed if you need. You have my sincerest best wishes in what you are dealing with. You almost have it's ass kicked!

The only things I can think of now is: I wasn't working out as much as you, but I was taking in protein with BCAAs, along with veggies and some fruit, and whole grains and oats (which I think you are eating.) Good luck, I can't wait to hear you've gotten through this last stretch - because you are damn close to done.

Jay
 
When I use to take massive 80gms doses I wasn't till hour 48 that wds started and hour 72 that I peaked. But on like a 1-2gms worth, shouldn't I technically be peaking sooner? I'm assuming that small amount of pods is being burnt out of my body quick and I should be peaking sooner in wds than with my higher doses. Does that sound possible or is it just wishful thinking? I don't know either way but lets see if we can take 2-3 days off this habit and piss the pod gods off.
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Didn't the duration start to get shorter though when you were using longer? Or did you simply notice that withdrawal symptoms were appearing faster, but still taking 72 hours to peak? Because I noticed that after I was addicted for 16 months or so, I sometimes started to feel sick as early as the 12 hour mark, was DEFINITELY sick by the 24, and am almost certain that by the time I made it to 48 hours I would only have traces of morphine left.

Judging by what QWE said in the megathread a while ago, the poppy pods have a lot of other alkaloids in them besides morphine, and in different concentrations than say opium for instance. So the liver enzymes get saturated by all of the similarly structured alkaloids (morphine, codiene, thebaine, noscapine, papaverine, etc). When taken in smaller quantities like you are, it serves to reason that your body could process it all quicker. Also, we may have been experiencing elevated liver enzymes after constantly exposing ourselves to these alkaloids. I wouldn't be at all surprised that as you get the dose down as low as you are, the duration of action could be somewhat reduced.

But that's all just a crazy theory :D
 
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