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12 Step Discussion Mega Thread

belfort said:
ok, say someone that has been clean for a year or so goes to 12 step meeting and complains of being mostly anhedonic still..just cant seem to enjoy life like they used to prior to drugs..what do the 12 steppers recommend them do then??
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My advice would be to not get so worked up thinking they have caused a mental illness as a result of thier drug use that no steps can cure and let go. I know it sounds like a typical thing someone in 12 step groups would say, but I often got like this and sometimes still do....I think I've damaged my brain beyond repair. However dwelling negatively on this obsession that I have gone over the line, beyond repair, only causes more negative thinking.

Acceptance is key, you are the way you are today. Temporary Paws symptoms too can cause one to believe this, the symptoms i sometimes feel are the sort that tell me that they are permanent. I can say, with real honesty, that I think it is the negative thinking and repetative obsessive thinking that was causing me the most damage.

I am aware that some people suffer from real mental illnesses that need to be addressed, however there is no real way of telling in the first few years of recovery. I would say try to be positive, follow the suggestions regardless of your views and what you believe is happening and work the program to the best of your ability and hopefully you will not suffer from this anhedonic state any longer. It's a horrible situation to be in, not wanting to use drugs, but not being able to live comfortably clean and sober.

Perhaps do some work on acceptance, think positively, write gratitude lists (found to have an outstanding effect), work the steps, and follow the suggestions to the best of your ability. Speak openly and honestly about your feelings in meetings, share with friends how you are feeling and god willing the feelings will pass. Hope it all works out good for you. I know how it feels, and hopefully sharing my experience with breaking out of a similar thinking pattern will help. :)
 
oliphill said:
12 Steps (minus God)

1. We admitted we had a problem, that our lives were a mess
2. We realised we needed/could get help
3. We asked for help
4. We wrote a detailed description of ourselves, both positive and negative
5. We told someone else what we were like
6. We recognised personality traits that caused us pain
7. We asked other people how they changed
8. We made a list of people we had harmed
9. We made amends to these people always remembering to look after them and ourselves
10. We continued to look at our behaviour
11. We looked at ways we could improve our relationships with people, places, etc
12. We woke up, tried to help others and did our best

Hope this may potentially help someone. :)
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yeah i think this is really cool to i jus started goin to meetings a week ago and i jus couldnt get into that god shit
 
i've been dodgin my sponsor like crazy, well actually dodgin everyone. I dunno, he's a good dude i just have no desire to interact w ppl at all right now, i should feel bad but i just am so fucking tired of putting out emotions and having it come crashng down, doesn't seem worth the risk at all anymore.
 
belfort said:
ok, say someone that has been clean for a year or so goes to 12 step meeting and complains of being mostly anhedonic still..just cant seem to enjoy life like they used to prior to drugs..what do the 12 steppers recommend them do then??
Click to expand...
oliphill said:
Acceptance is key, you are the way you are today. Temporary Paws symptoms too can cause one to believe this, the symptoms i sometimes feel are the sort that tell me that they are permanent. I can say, with real honesty, that I think it is the negative thinking and repetative obsessive thinking that was causing me the most damage.

I am aware that some people suffer from real mental illnesses that need to be addressed, however there is no real way of telling in the first few years of recovery. I would say try to be positive, follow the suggestions regardless of your views and what you believe is happening and work the program to the best of your ability and hopefully you will not suffer from this anhedonic state any longer. It's a horrible situation to be in, not wanting to use drugs, but not being able to live comfortably clean and sober.

Perhaps do some work on acceptance, think positively, write gratitude lists (found to have an outstanding effect), work the steps, and follow the suggestions to the best of your ability. Speak openly and honestly about your feelings in meetings, share with friends how you are feeling and god willing the feelings will pass. Hope it all works out good for you. I know how it feels, and hopefully sharing my experience with breaking out of a similar thinking pattern will help. :)
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I don't think putting off for years seeing a counselor or Doctor is good advice. Like the rest of the population people in AA have problems that need to be diagnosed and treated by a professional. Waiting years for the steps and recovery to possibly help is just NOT good advice.

About 15 years ago a person I know who was long involved in AA committed suicide. Prior to his suicide he was given advice like 90 meetings in 90 days and to call his sponsor more. I agree diagnosis is more complicated and less definitive when people are newly sober. Its also easier to tell someone had a heart attack from an autopsy table then from an emergency room but I don't recommend waiting for the autopsy.

I have seen an official AA pamphlet pointing out that AA groups and members ought not practice medicine but should encourage people to get professional help for problems that need professionals. I've seen people delay necessary psychiatric treatment on the chance recovery was going to be the answer and suffer psychotic episodes that were not only devastating to their lives but also caused relapse.

My advice is to never to suffer with something a Doctor might be able to help with for years. In fact I'd set a date by which you should be starting to feel better or you will be seeking professional help. I'd make that date a couple months away at the most. If things worsen see somebody sooner than that.
 
Enki said:
I don't think putting off for years seeing a counselor or Doctor is good advice.
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I know I take this back. It is a risky thing to do. It is a tough one though as a lot of people will get misdiagnosed, but agreed not worth the risk.

I do believe though if I had gone to see a doctor at 30 days clean, then 90 days clean, then 6 months clean I would have been diagnosed with a different mental disorder each time!
 
^It is tough call, I understand that a lot of mental problems of newly sober people are really just getting used to coping with life undrugged once again and experiencing PAWS type phenomena. The difficult thing is some people started their drinking or drugging career as major depression, schizophrenia, or bipolar type problems were just emerging and those problems can be unmasked in being sober/clean. Sometimes they are a lot more serious sobering up than before they started their drink or drug period.
 
I shared for the 1st time tonight. I thought it would make me feel better but I was just really depressed after the meeting. I got a free book, didn't really want one but didn't think I could say no either. I feel like I'm the only person there who is doing so out of extrinsic motivation. I feel guilty for not really wanting to be sober, and then I get pissed because I worry the meetings are actually ruining drugs for me. Isn't that crazy?
 
DroneLore said:
I shared for the 1st time tonight. I thought it would make me feel better but I was just really depressed after the meeting. I got a free book, didn't really want one but didn't think I could say no either. I feel like I'm the only person there who is doing so out of extrinsic motivation. I feel guilty for not really wanting to be sober, and then I get pissed because I worry the meetings are actually ruining drugs for me. Isn't that crazy?
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Not everybody at meetings is as serious as they claim to be.

Why are you at meetings, is it court-ordered? For family? And why are the meetings ruining drugs for you?

If meetings are making you more aware of the consequences of your drug use and you are re-evaluating whether you want them in your life, that can be a good thing. If you're just feeling guilty because they're telling you that you shouldn't be doing what you want to be doing, then you are giving away your authority to something outside of yourself.
 
It's not really court-ordered, more of a preemptive strike you could say. And it's just like you say, I am giving away my authority. I've never been the strongest person in that regard...
 
hi, my name is -----, i'm an addict, alcoholic

;)
last night i went to a cocaine anonymous meeting.
it was good shit. what's your take on the whole anonymous group setting?
//
tds anonymous.
 
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I'm not a fan of 12 step programs, from a philosophical standpoint. However, they do work for many people, and the support aspect is usually excellent.

My take: try it. If it works, then keep at it. If not, try a different treatment program. Different things work for different people.
 
Hi

I just got back from a women's AA meeting.

IME (New Haven CT) it seemed AA was considered the "standard" rather than NA, CA etc. There were more people in AA therefore more people with sober time. People say they're an alcoholic even though they're an addict. Not everyone, but anyway that's my experience.

I found it was most helpful in that it served as something to do every night.

Peace
 
I have attended probably over 50 meetings to my day. I go on and off, don't usually participate in the meeting but am well known outside of them.

I have stopped going to meetings though, everything just seemed so tacky to me, all the hugging and happiness. I know I sound bitter but Its just the way I feel. I also had a problem with some of the people constantly goofing off and then people telling war stories on the breaks. We all have been there and done that, there is no need for this as all it does is kick up cravings.

I have considered going back but I am just not a fan of the 12 steps. Everything seems to 'church' like to me. Basically replace the 10 commandments with the 12 steps.

I dont know, should I just go to different meetings? Am I the only one who feels this way?
 
Being taken to my first ever NA meeting back in January 2010 has completely changed my whole life. Been clean now 15 months, and couldn't have done it without NA. :)
 
I shudder at the thought of them. If I ever lose control over my drug usage I'll consider myself a failure as a human being as it's always a matter of will. Yes I know there's physiological effects there in play, but ultimately it usually comes down to one continuing to abuse when they should have made the choice to stop using until their habits calmed down.

Personally, I think it's okay to be an addict if your life is so fucked up that's all you can do to keep going, but otherwise self-control is a must.

But maybe the whole stigma of the ultra-religiously based AA meetings and such has gotten me biased. I like the camaraderie of community but the sheer corniness of it all and the fact that these 12 steps sort of belie and externalize what is otherwise very internal...meh, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Sorry if I offended anybody, I realize most people who use drugs are probably of similar backgrounds or have had life problems (hence the introduction to drugs by and large, I know it was that way for me) but I do think there has to come a point where self-control is the key factor.
 
EndlessSummer said:
ultra-religiously based AA meetings
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my experience indicates that this is inaccurate. 12 Step fellowships are not religious. Yes, there are many who have religion that attend these groups but the fellowships themselves don't care if you belong to any particular theological belief system.

I attend meetings regularly and I hate religion (all religions) and there are many, many just like myself in the rooms.

I do not attend AA (I go to another 12 Step Fellowship) because of the fact that they do say The Lord's Prayer. This group action doesn't align with the Traditions that they are meant to follow. That being said, I know many who attend AA that are of diverse religious beliefs and backgrounds. Many also do not believe in the concept of a supreme deity. The Program works just the same for all of these diverse individuals.

Just my experience...
 
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