100mg MDMA + 14mg 4 ACO DET - First Time - Report

[Kayman]

I'm a very exprenced drug user and have done all kinds of drugs phenethylamines, amphetamines, lysergic acids, tryptamines basically everything I could get my hands on. I stopped taking drugs a while ago but I strangely have had the urge to tell people out there about this particular trip for quite a while. Further I write this post as nobody else on the internet has tried that combination of drugs and i think people should know about it.


The day started with my friend bob. We planed to take 100mg of mdma and 14mg of 4 aco det which we did. I try to recall the events as good as I can. Usually 4 aco det is non visual and i don't even have CEVs but this time everything was completely different.


T 0:00
We took the drugs and listened to some DnB music
T 0:40
We both started to feel the mdma and also the tryptamine buzz we were tired and not very talkative. I noticed that my vision got kinda blurry and decided to smoke some weed.
T 1:30
I'm definitely on mdma but there is more coming. I can't really keep my eyes open which is strange as amphetamins usually make me fell full of energy and completely awake, yet calm but this time I don't feel calm or energetic but rather forced to rush through the room like a tiger that's trapped in a cage and going crazy.
T 2:00
I see waves of colors which are coming very fast and make it nearly impossible to focus my eyes on anything. I can't really talk neither can bob and so we sit there talking gibberish from time to time.
Music seems to enhance the visuals. It doesn't seem to matter if I close my eyes or open them I just see these awfull heavy colorwaves coming towards me. My eyes are rolling and I feel like I'm going to sweat myself to death.
T 2:00-6:00
We continue to smoke weed and manage to start a conversation. The visuals got even more intense and things started to melt.
I feel muscle tremors in my entire body.
T 7:00
I'm pretty much back to baseline and feel exhausted I say bye to bob and walk home.


It seems to me that this combination of drugs does alter each other in a way that takes away the magic of mdma and leaves it with just the speedy part whereas the tryptamine component seems to be visually enhanced but lacks all psychedelic thinking patterns and properties which leaves you as a dumb, gibberish talking piece of shit with no more positive effects.

substancecode_4acodet
substancecode_mdma
substancecode_tryptamines
substancecode_empathogens
explevel_firsttime
roacode_oral
exptype_positive
exptype_glowing
_combo_

 

[Kaleida]

Hey Kayman, welcome to Bluelight. Thanks for sharing your experience with this combination. I actually have a read a couple other reports of people taking this mix with similar doses, and they didn't necessarily say it was unenjoyable, but they didn't say there was anything particularly noteworthy about it either.

4-AcO-DET is actually quite visual for me in the right ways, especially with eyes closed, but it's also somewhat anxious and sedating, and not very euphoric. I find it quite fascinating as a psychedelic, but I can't imagine that I would really enjoy mixing it with MDMA either. It seems like there might be too many opposing forces at play....

 

[Kayman]

Really? I have googled and found nothing could you provide a link please?
What kind of visuals do you have when using 4 AcO DET?

 

[Kaleida]

Yeah, they seem somewhat hidden, not the first search results that just pop up. I tried to find the ones I know I've read before when I read this earlier but this was the only one in full report I could find again: Serotonergic Pain Relief. It's a little deceiving because the report says it includes 5-MeO-DiPT, but it's actually a report about multiple experiences, and the part about 4-AcO-DET and MDMA is just this bit here:

Some weeks later, three friends and I tried a higher dose of the 4-AcO-DET (18mg) and two of us (including me) combined this with an earlier dose of ~100mg MDMA. This experience was not a wonderful one, our set and setting were wrong and conflicts occurred between members of our group due to a failure to establish clear objectives at the outset.

As you can see, not much to take away from it. There is also this trip report on Bluelight, but it also includes 2C-E: [URL="http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/120483-2C-E-4-aco-DET-MDMA-experienced-chemical-cocktail]Chemical Cocktail[/URL]. That one does sound intense, but since the 2C-E is there it's obviously hard to compare it directly. The other accounts I can find of 4-AcO-DET + MDMA just come from posts on forums and such, and again nothing too substantial. Like I said, I've heard of it, but I've never heard of anything too noteworthy about it. I'm pretty sure yours is the fullest account of it so far.

As for the visuals I get with 4-AcO-DET, they're actually fairly complex and unique, though definitely still tryptamine-typical in some ways. Most often I get this big spinning pattern overlaid at the center of my vision, with a 3D tunnel vision kind of effect as you extend toward the edges, and within it you can see all sorts of interesting smooth transformations that seem to defy logic. They really are that kind of visual you just can't quite understand until you've tripped really hard on something... the kind that you can sit there and watch unfold in front of you and still not even remotely understand what's happening or how you're seeing what you're seeing, things like impossible shape illusions made real or depth distortions that cause the designs to move around each other in ways that would not be physically possible in an actual 3D space. Really intense stuff actually.... The beauty of it as well is that there is still not much of confusion or anything for me at these doses either, it's always very lucid, though it can get quite mentally stimulating at high doses.

When you push even higher than that, things get real.... I've seen beautiful visions of people walking around in fantasy worlds with lots of deep symbolism like flowers bursting to life around them and then immediately rotting away, plastered on the walls around me. Though, at that point it definitely did get a little mental! Not really in a way like LSD or mushrooms, but more like delusion, almost dissociative in nature.... I could see it approaching the point of grandiose thoughts, though I still haven't quite crossed that line. It's a powerful molecule for sure, not to be toyed with lightly at such doses! Though, to any passionate psychonaut I would definitely recommend at least considering giving it a try. In a very safe setting, of course!

 

[Kayman]

I remember the first report and as you already said it didn´t really satisfy me as it provides no information about the actual trip.

At what doses do you start to get these visuals? What you describe reminds me on 4 AcO DMT at 35mg or above. I´d really like to give it a try again but I´m actually a bit afraid of the anxiety that I get when I use it without anything mixed to it. On the other hand it goes pretty well along with some DMT smoked... I guess I´ll have to try it.
Could you describe the state of delusion? I´ve had a diphenhydramine+shroom experince that comes pretty close to what you describe.

 

[Kaleida]

That actually sounds about right, 35 mg. If you're interested in getting these kinds of effects from 4-AcO-DET and you got them from that much 4-AcO-DMT, I would definitely consider that a good starting point. That's pretty much how I work with my 4-substituted tryptamines, find a dosage base and work towards finding the equivalencies. Also, just speaking from personal experience, that dose would definitely give me some of both those kinds of visuals, 30 mg is a dose I like for getting the impossible shapes kinds of visuals I mentioned, and it already starts to give me some structured visions in my mind's eye. The trip I had with the full visions actually also came from 30 mg, but from smoking it. I wouldn't recommend that, it was too fleeting for my tastes, especially with the lack of euphoria. I'm intending to take 40-50 mg orally some time soon to try to achieve the same effect. I can understand the anxiety though too, it's definitely one of the stranger psychedelics for me.... I have to say though that it hasn't really gotten that bad for me, and at the highest dose I took I actually had the least anxiety so far. How high have you gone with this one so far?

And sure about the delusion, I'll do my best. It was basically like... suddenly I just had a strong feeling that I was being watched and that I had a very strong significance in the world in a really spiritual and heroic kind of way. I knew that I was meant to achieve something great and that I was going to use my love for all of life and reality to do it. The visions also started responding by creating entities to be the ones who were watching me, and other parts of it started transforming to illustrate all the intense emotions I was feeling in that moment as these "realizations" were being fed into me. Of course, like I said, I didn't go totally over that line; I knew that these things were not true and that I shouldn't act on them, but I felt very close to forgetting that. It's worth noting as well that I'm usually of pretty strong mind on most psychedelics I take, so for someone who gets mindfucked easily it probably would have been way stronger too. Diphenhydramine is actually a good comparison I think to some extent, which the mushrooms also could have made up for with the rest.... A deliriant trip definitely feels different emotionally and follows different cognitive paths for me compared to this kind of psychedelic trip, but I do personally believe that there seems to be some overlap downstream in some of the effects caused by deliriants and strong psychedelics such as this, certain more psychotic aspects of the hallucinations in particular can be practically identical and accompany much the same kind of general disconnection from reality. And that's very much how this made me feel, I was out of it.... It was nearly like a delirium in the sense that even though I was aware it wasn't real, it didn't seem particularly odd either. If it was any stronger it probably wouldn't even have occurred to me to think about it until after it was over.

Anyway, hope that's descriptive enough!

 

[Kayman]

Do you do such doses on a regular basis? Have you ever noticed HPPD effects afterwards? Wow 50mg would definitely cause a deliriant ego loss for me. Good luck and take care !

I had a very strong significance in the world in a really spiritual and heroic kind of way. I knew that I was meant to achieve something great and that I was going to use my love for all of life and reality to do it.

I know exactly what you mean. That is actually the best feeling that you can have. For me good tryptamines usually add the feelin of being connected with everyone and everything that exists to the things that you described. I have never felt happier in my entire life.

It's worth noting as well that I'm usually of pretty strong mind on most psychedelics I take, so for someone who gets mindfucked easily it probably would have been way stronger too

Ever had a mindfuck at higher doses? What do you do when you realize that you´re about to freak out? (Happened to me on DMT that´s the reason I stopped taking psychs a year ago. Before that I never had any problems with anything at high doses.)

It is thank you for taking the time

 

[Kaleida]

Do you do such doses on a regular basis? Have you ever noticed HPPD effects afterwards? Wow 50mg would definitely cause a deliriant ego loss for me. Good luck and take care !

Semi-regularly, yeah, usually not more than 2-3 times a month, sometimes less. I usually take 4-substituted tryptamines somewhere in the range of 20-50 mg, and I intend to start pushing even further than that fairly soon, I'm just working my way up.

I have had HPPD for years, but the only time it ever negatively impacted my life is when I was worried about it. I used to think about how much it seemed like I had damaged my brain, but then it finally occurred to me that I was constantly reinforcing the visuals and the negative thoughts by constantly paying attention to them. I forced myself to go through a phase of not tripping and totally retrained myself to not look for visuals at all and not thinking HPPD even slightly for any reason, and eventually my brain just tuned all of it out. Now I am at a point where I can stop and stare at a wall and get mild visuals and such, but if I don't purposefully look for them they will simply never appear. They also seem to have hit some kind of wall over time, as they do get worse for a couple days after every trip, but they always return to pretty much the same point of intensity afterward now, I haven't really seen it get worse in a long time.

And thanks! I'm definitely excited for it, hehe. It's been a good while since I had a really far out trip like that.

I know exactly what you mean. That is actually the best feeling that you can have. For me good tryptamines usually add the feelin of being connected with everyone and everything that exists to the things that you described. I have never felt happier in my entire life.

That does sound nice. That's not something I've actually experienced yet, though I have heard others describe similar things. I mean, I feel such connections in a logical way, but not in an emotional way specifically unlocked by the altered state. As I said though, I am somewhat resistant to the psychological effects of psychedelics, both positive and negative, which is part of why I like to dose so high (though the strong hallucinations are another great reason). I'm sure I'll get there though, I've got a lot of tryptamines still to go through!

Ever had a mindfuck at higher doses? What do you do when you realize that you´re about to freak out? (Happened to me on DMT that´s the reason I stopped taking psychs a year ago. Before that I never had any problems with anything at high doses.)

Oh, I've had plenty of freakouts, but usually due to my panic disorder, it used to get tripped off even by things like cannabis. This was my only real exception to the psychological resistance, and it was always a hypochondriac thing, like I'd think I was having a heart attack or a stroke or something. I eventually just had to learn to recognize it as it was coming, then force myself to remember that it was just a trip, the fear isn't real and I should just remain calm, doing things like taking long, full breaths or going outside and getting fresh air, or other similar things. The thing that actually made it get this bad though was the HPPD too, so I kind of had to overcome them together. These days I don't really panic much on anything anymore, even if I feel anxiety it doesn't really develop into anything.

What was your experience on the DMT?

It is thank you for taking the time

No problem! I'm happy to help.

 

[Kayman]

Sorry mate I was super busy in real life.

How did your further experiments with high Tryptamin doses go?

What was your experience on the DMT?

I smoked 50mg with some weed and forgot to exhale (yeah I know wtf). I felt it shooting up into my head. Everything went black I don´t know if my eyes were open or closed.
Then I heard a sound that reminds me of the sounds mongolian throat singers make but so powerful that I was convinced that it was some kind of God who made this.
Then the visuals kicked in. I saw geometric patterns and I felt my EGO being ripped appart in 1mio pieces. All memories just vanished from my brain and all that was left was just a entity and its existance. I basically was existence( idk if that makes sense). When I could see again I was lying on the floor my clothes were soaked with bong water as I dropped it on the floor. Then the walls were melting, morphing and my visual field was filled with aztec paintings. I always see them when taking Tryptamins I wonder if you see them too ?