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1-benzylpiperazine and ADHD

B

bantaren

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Joined
Aug 30, 2007
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35
I suffer from (self-diagnosed) ADHD, the primary inattentive type. One of my problems is that I have a hard time concentrating on things like reading a book. I'm therefore always looking for substances that help. I think metylphenidate and d-amphetamine are the best for this purpose of the ones I've tried. However, these are illegal without a prescription here and a prescription is almost impossible to get if you are above 9 years of age. I've also tried MDPV (sucked) and desoxypipradrol (incredible, almost no side-effects at all but too expensive). Now, I can come to the point... Going through bilz0rs excellent overview on 1-benzylpiperazine I can see no pharmacodynamic reason why this shouldn't work as a ADHD-med. The serotonergic effects should be able to get "cancelled out" by my current SSRI treatment. I know from experience that it's well tolerated by me.

Am I wrong? Why? Have any of you tried bzp for this purpose?
 
I don't know about BZP, because I never took it, but getting ADD meds is very easy for an adult. If you just hate going to the doctor or you want to chart some new territory, that's fine, but they give out those IMO crappy ADD meds like candy.
 
you should realize that not every country is the same as the united states. rather obvious, but you seem to have forgotten.
 
I used to use BZP pretty much daily before I got prescribed amphetamines - it works decently as long as the dose doesn't go too high (then weird side effects / slightly "trippy" feeling comes)
 
jamshyd said:
Sorry, but I think you should at least get a diagnosis first before deciding you are sick and prescribing yourself harmful substances.
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In my opinion, the diagnostic criteria are already quite flimsy (ie, unreliable), and the 'disorder' points more to a social-structural problem than psychopathology. In short, I don't think that daily stimulants are appropriate for anyone...maybe some narcoleptics.

ebola
 
In a sense, I think I agree with ebola...


ADHD inattentive type is strange; it seems like a disorder unrelated to ADHD. For example, what exactly is "Sluggish Cognitive Tempo"?

I am said to have ADHD-H, that is, I am very hyperactive/hyperkinetic, have large amounts of energy, and am prone to risk-taking behaviour. My attention span is actually quite good, and I have gotten better about harnessing the ability to hyperfocus. I don't see it as a disorder. Not surprisingly, I have never been a huge stimulant fan...

I found BZP to have more of body load than amphetamine, and I couldn't imagine taking it everyday. Then again, I couldn't imagine taking d-amphetamine every day...
 
In short, I don't think that daily stimulants are appropriate for anyone...
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I profoundly disagree. Dextroamphetamine has been one of the best things to happen to me--I don't abuse it and I experience no significant deleterious side effects. I certainly don't agree with the "ADD doesn't really exist, it's just bullshit cooked up by the evil pharmaceutical companies" line. Yes, it is often misdiagnosed in young children--I can't say that I believe that little children should be put on strong CNS stimulants, as the effects on the developing nervous system are unknown--but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that amphetamine is the "tool of the devil." Different individuals react to and tolerate chemicals differently and some of us are not only helped by psychostimulants, but tolerate them extremely well.
 
its a fairly typical physcostimulant...it should work for ADHD.

however, it has a heavy side effect profile and you may find it difficult to take this drug everyday...mostly due to the gastric distress and headache that it can induce in some (many) people. however, if your lucky enough to not get that. then it should be fine.

still, see a doctor, there is more to treating mental illness then pharmacotherapy.
 
Oh yeah, sorry, I was in <rant> mode above and forgot to address the question at all. I would never recommend 1-BZP to anyone as a true molecular therapeutic designed to be taken on a daily basis. Seems like there are too many unknowns and possible nasty sides.
 
Riemann Zeta said:
I would never recommend 1-BZP to anyone as a true molecular therapeutic designed to be taken on a daily basis. Seems like there are too many unknowns and possible nasty sides.
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As always, I have the very highest respect for your input Riemann. However, going through the literature available (to me) and the fact that it is was probably marked as an antidepressant (at least the inactive prodrug, "Trelibet") I am curious as to what the many unknowns are in this case? I WANT this to be a harmless substance since it is so well tolerated by me...
 
Well, you are correct in the fact that there don't seem to be any significant reports of obviously danger in the literature. I guess one thing that I was worried about was any possible 5-HT2B agonist activity. As demonstrated by the fenfluramine debacle, compounds with activity at the 5-HT2B receptor can trigger cardiac fibrosis and pulmonary hypertension. But I don't see any reports of BZP having 2B affinity (the related mCPP is a weak 5-HT2B partial agonist according to Cussac et al, 2008).

While that ever-nefarious 5-HT2B receptor doesn't look like much of an issue, piperazines (like GBR12909, ranolazine, ziprasidone as well as BZP itself) have been shown to occasionally cause another potential cardiac issue: cardiac arrhythmia from QT-interval prolongation (caused by binding to the HERG-subtype of K+ channel). Considering that BZP is also a stimulant, if you (or your family) have any cardiac issues or a history of heart disease, then BZP would be contraindicated. The only other serious problem with BZP reported in the narc journals is risk of seizure. This is mainly dependent upon one's natural seizure threshold, not just the total BZP dose. So if you've ever had a seizure, BZP is again a definite no-no.

As for the BZP-metabolized antidepressants that were out there in the EU during the 1970s, I can't find any record of them being suddenly removed from the market due to toxicity. My guess is that they were abandoned in clinical trials or fell into disuse because of annoying side effects. For example, piperazines can trigger migraine headaches in some and frequently cause muscle aches, peripheral 'creepy-crawlies' (similar to the feeling of having way too much caffeine), nausea and vomiting.
 
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RZ said:
I profoundly disagree. Dextroamphetamine has been one of the best things to happen to me--I don't abuse it and I experience no significant deleterious side effects.
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The research that I've seen suggests that daily stimulants tend to lose efficacy after two years (even with escalating dose). Now, I'm not saying that stimulants should not be used to treat AD(H)D...and if yours still work, then more power to you.

I certainly don't agree with the "ADD doesn't really exist, it's just bullshit cooked up by the evil pharmaceutical companies" line.
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I didn't mean to suggest that AD(H)D doesn't exist. Rather:
1. AD(H)D is born of natural variation in the human population and
2. It is only in a particular societal context that it becomes a 'disorder'.

Yes, it is often misdiagnosed in young children--I can't say that I believe that little children should be put on strong CNS stimulants, as the effects on the developing nervous system are unknown
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I've seen additional research showing localized increased dendrite-branching in juvenile rats given daily ritalin at doses equivalent to what we give our kids. So we have permanent structural changes confirmed, but they may or may not be 'damage'.

negro' said:
ADHD inattentive type is strange; it seems like a disorder unrelated to ADHD. For example, what exactly is "Sluggish Cognitive Tempo"?
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Yeah...I'd say that my understanding of this is quite poor. I wonder if the 'inattentive type' would show the same abilities to detect surprising stimuli as would the usually ADHD crowd.
...
As a side note, I've done a bit of psychological research assistance on ADD. We were coming up with a novel diagnostic tool.

ebola
 
I've seen additional research showing localized increased dendrite-branching in juvenile rats given daily ritalin at doses equivalent to what we give our kids. So we have permanent structural changes confirmed, but they may or may not be 'damage'.
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While I don't personally believe that an increase in dendritic arborization reflects neurotoxicity, neurodegeneration or a particular physiological danger of any sort, the fact that most compounds seem to have much longer-lasting effects when administered at a young age (during CNS development) is the reason that I do not agree with the practice of readily giving psychostimulants to young children (I think that methylphenidate is actually indicated and approved for children as young as 3...way, way too young). Moreover, the recent practice of giving young children powerful antipsychotics (e.g. risperidone, olanzapine, ziprasidone) and mood stabilizers is probably even more harmful than the use of psychostimulants.

It is weird (and dumb) that giving an adult a psychostimulant medication is far more controversial than giving the same medication to a 4 year-old.
 
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i heard modafinil is safe for every day use and can be used for ADHD

would advice against benzylpiperazine as it's extremely harsh on the body. when i took it for recreational use with TFMPP, it would give me 4-5 day fever/flu like hangovers, so if u took it everyday, u probably wouldn't survive long.
 
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