Stimulants 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine (2-MeOPP / ortho-MeOPP) activity?

[sludgekatana]

I can't find much information about the potential activity of 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine. I can however, find that a related(?) compound 1-(4-methoxyphenyl)piperazine (para-MeOPP / 4-MeOPP / MeOPP) has the following written about it:

1-(4-Methoxyphenyl)piperazine (hydrochloride) is a piperazine derivative with euphoric, stimulant properties comparable to those produced by amphetamine.1,2 It is assumed to have a mixed mechanism of action, with serotonergic and dopamine antagonistic properties in a similar fashion to 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine. Also, its metabolism has been described.1,3

I'm receiving a sample of 2-MeOPP tomorrow and I would really like to know any useful information about it.

 

[negrogesic]

I have not tried 2-MeOPP but have tried numerous other similar piperazines. They are all shitty recreational drugs, without exception. As far as recreational drugs, the best was probably BZP (1-benzylpiperazine) and that was still a shitty drug.

In terms of 2-MeOPP, its likely that the methoxy at the ortho position would give it significantly less selectivity for serotonin (when compared to 4-MeOPP), which is a good thing when it comes to phenylpiperazine stimulants. But when searching i found this odd characterization of it:

"1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine is an effective blocker of striatal dopaminergic receptors in rat brain and is apparently the simplest chemical structure known to exert dopaminergic blocking activity. It is exhibited pronounced antihypertensive and weak sympatholytic activities in experimental animals. Blood pressure was also lowered in hypertensive patients and this effect was sometimes accompanied by a strong sedation, and after large repeated doses, by disorientation and stupor. In a filter paper bioassay 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine demonstrated acaricidal activity. 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine is a building block of many serotonergic and dopaminergic agents. Some of them have antidepressant activity."

This is rather odd, and seems to suggest it has dopamine blocking properties, given the strong antihypertensive effects. There are some antipsychotics, like aripiprazole, that feature similar components in their structure, so perhaps it shares some of those traits. Or this characterization could be wrong. But if it does produce strong antihypertensive effects, its unlikely to be recreational stimulant.

Overall, there are no good phenylpiperazines, and most are absolutely awful recreational drugs, but I actually found in personal experience that 4-benzylpiperidine was a fairly decent functional stimulant, without nasty side-effects (I wrote some of the wiki page on it actually):

4-Benzylpiperidine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I found it to be a decent, fairly mild and very forgiving stimulant, without the nasty side-effects of BZP. It was also not as strong as BZP, which can have some amphetamine like euphoria, but with nasty side-effects. It wasn't great but its mediocre and effective. I think i went through 40 grams of it (the doses required was high).

Long story short, 2-MeOPP is almost certainly a very shitty drug. And according to that one characterization that I quoted, it might even be a dopamine receptor antagonist (although I think it might be incorrect, I can't imagine it would have strong antihypertensive effects, but I could be wrong).

 

[sludgekatana]

I have not tried 2-MeOPP but have tried numerous other similar piperazines. They are all shitty recreational drugs, without exception. As far as recreational drugs, the best was probably BZP (1-benzylpiperazine) and that was still a shitty drug.

In terms of 2-MeOPP, its likely that the methoxy at the ortho position would give it significantly less selectivity for serotonin (when compared to 4-MeOPP), which is a good thing when it comes to phenylpiperazine stimulants. But when searching i found this odd characterization of it:

"1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine is an effective blocker of striatal dopaminergic receptors in rat brain and is apparently the simplest chemical structure known to exert dopaminergic blocking activity. It is exhibited pronounced antihypertensive and weak sympatholytic activities in experimental animals. Blood pressure was also lowered in hypertensive patients and this effect was sometimes accompanied by a strong sedation, and after large repeated doses, by disorientation and stupor. In a filter paper bioassay 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine demonstrated acaricidal activity. 1-(2-methoxyphenyl)piperazine is a building block of many serotonergic and dopaminergic agents. Some of them have antidepressant activity."

This is rather odd, and seems to suggest it has dopamine blocking properties, given the strong antihypertensive effects. There are some antipsychotics, like aripiprazole, that feature similar components in their structure, so perhaps it shares some of those traits. Or this characterization could be wrong. But if it does produce strong antihypertensive effects, its unlikely to be recreational stimulant.

Overall, there are no good phenylpiperazines, and most are absolutely awful recreational drugs, but I actually found in personal experience that 4-benzylpiperidine was a fairly decent functional stimulant, without nasty side-effects (I wrote some of the wiki page on it actually):

4-Benzylpiperidine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I found it to be a decent, fairly mild and very forgiving stimulant, without the nasty side-effects of BZP. It was also not as strong as BZP, which can have some amphetamine like euphoria, but with nasty side-effects. It wasn't great but its mediocre and effective. I think i went through 40 grams of it (the doses required was high).

Long story short, 2-MeOPP is almost certainly a very shitty drug. And according to that one characterization that I quoted, it might even be a dopamine receptor antagonist (although I think it might be incorrect, I can't imagine it would have strong antihypertensive effects, but I could be wrong).

I actually just got some 4-Benzylpiperidine, but I'm confused because it is in a liquid form and most of what I've seen online has mentioned it being solid. Any idea why that might be? I can find so little information about it I'm anxious about trying it. What was your typical dosage?

 

[negrogesic]

I actually just got some 4-Benzylpiperidine, but I'm confused because it is in a liquid form and most of what I've seen online has mentioned it being solid. Any idea why that might be? I can find so little information about it I'm anxious about trying it. What was your typical dosage?

Are you sure it is 4-benzylpiperidine? Aka 4-PMPD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Benzylpiperidine (Fun fact: I personally wrote most of that first paragraph on the 4-PMPD Wikipedia page, explaining mechanism of action, etc.). Just note that it's action as an MAOI is very mild, so it's not like nardil etc -- someone else added that last sentence of the first paragraph about it being an MAOI (which is technically true, but so is amphetamine, so I think that sentence implies a bigger role on MAO-A than there actually is). Bottom line it is a weak MAOI and is unlikely to cause any serious drug interactions. I've gone through 40 grams of 4-PMPD, used mostly as a functional stimulant, probably averaging 80mg per dose. (I didn't buy so much because I thought it was so great; I bought it because it was dirt cheap).

4-benzylpiperidine (4-PMPD) is a rather mild stimulant with little recreational potential. So don't expect significant euphoria. It's more of a functional stimulant. It is fairly low potency. I've taken doses from 30mg to 500mg (the later being an attempt to get high on it).

I would allergy test what you have and start at very low doses, like half a milligram, 5mg, 10mg etc just in case it isn't truly 4-PMPD.

Functional stimulant doses are in the 30mg-120mg range, depending on your sensitivity to stimulants. As you can tell, I tried to get high on it, even snorting the powder etc. I wasn't too successful, and fortunately it is quite a gentle drug, so the comedown from big doses aren't too harsh. I suppose there is some sort of high at high doses (over 100mg), but it is quite mild. It's more useful as a gentle functional stimulant than as a recreational drug. Also, for a piperazine (which are known to have nasty side-effects/body load), 4-PMPD feels pretty clean, low body load. 4-PMPD does not have as high of an abuse potential as BZP (benzylpiperazine), but it also feels much cleaner.

Just try to make sure what you have is actually 4-PMPD before you start increasing the doses.

 

[sludgekatana]

Are you sure it is 4-benzylpiperidine? Aka 4-PMPD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Benzylpiperidine (Fun fact: I personally wrote most of that first paragraph on the 4-PMPD Wikipedia page, explaining mechanism of action, etc.). Just note that it's action as an MAOI is very mild, so it's not like nardil etc -- someone else added that last sentence of the first paragraph about it being an MAOI (which is technically true, but so is amphetamine, so I think that sentence implies a bigger role on MAO-A than there actually is). Bottom line it is a weak MAOI and is unlikely to cause any serious drug interactions. I've gone through 40 grams of 4-PMPD, used mostly as a functional stimulant, probably averaging 80mg per dose. (I didn't buy so much because I thought it was so great; I bought it because it was dirt cheap).

4-benzylpiperidine (4-PMPD) is a rather mild stimulant with little recreational potential. So don't expect significant euphoria. It's more of a functional stimulant. It is fairly low potency. I've taken doses from 30mg to 500mg (the later being an attempt to get high on it).

I would allergy test what you have and start at very low doses, like half a milligram, 5mg, 10mg etc just in case it isn't truly 4-PMPD.

Functional stimulant doses are in the 30mg-120mg range, depending on your sensitivity to stimulants. As you can tell, I tried to get high on it, even snorting the powder etc. I wasn't too successful, and fortunately it is quite a gentle drug, so the comedown from big doses aren't too harsh. I suppose there is some sort of high at high doses (over 100mg), but it is quite mild. It's more useful as a gentle functional stimulant than as a recreational drug. Also, for a piperazine (which are known to have nasty side-effects/body load), 4-PMPD feels pretty clean, low body load. 4-PMPD does not have as high of an abuse potential as BZP (benzylpiperazine), but it also feels much cleaner.

Just try to make sure what you have is actually 4-PMPD before you start increasing the doses.

Thanks for the quick response. I actually bought it directly from a USA chemical company, and the CAS numbers and molecular weight do match. I'll do an allergy test like you say though and see where it goes. What ROAs did you try?

 

[Esperighanto]

How did you measure the molecular weight of your sample? And you found the CAS number of it without using a mass spec? I find that shocking.

I'm also shocked that a chemist would use 2-Methoxybenzaldehyde on this virtually unknown drug instead of NBOMe relatives that are sure to sell on the black market. Pretty peculiar.

 

[sludgekatana]

How did you measure the molecular weight of your sample? And you found the CAS number of it without using a mass spec? I find that shocking.

I'm also shocked that a chemist would use 2-Methoxybenzaldehyde on this virtually unknown drug instead of NBOMe relatives that are sure to sell on the black market. Pretty peculiar.

The molecular weight and CAS were provided to me on the packing slip! Like I said, I bought it from a chemical company. I found it in the first place by searching for the CAS number. I'm no chemist my chemistry knowledge is almost worthless

 

[Esperighanto]

The molecular weight and CAS were provided to me on the packing slip! Like I said, I bought it from a chemical company. I found it in the first place by searching for the CAS number. I'm no chemist my chemistry knowledge is almost worthless

I gotcha, it's usually used as an intermediate in other chemical syntheses and relative to the dose likely required and the toxicity of this chemical class I'd likely be very, very careful with it.

 

[negrogesic]

Thanks for the quick response. I actually bought it directly from a USA chemical company, and the CAS numbers and molecular weight do match. I'll do an allergy test like you say though and see where it goes. What ROAs did you try?

Oral and intranasal. It cannot be smoked, at least not as a salt. I vaguely recollect making a crude freebase with sodium carbonate during some etizolam fueled attempt to get high on something, but don't think it worked well. The powder I had was very light, white and fluffy, formed clumps easily (which makes it a little awkward to snort).

Don't expect much of a high, I mean there is some mood lift, and it is forgiving at high doses. I certainly tried to get high on it, and wasnt especially successful. A few hundred milligrams will result in stimulation and pupil dilation, but not particularly euphoric. Eventually I resigned and treated it for what it was: a gentle, functional stimulant.

It didn't feel toxic or hard on the body, but who knows what impact it actually had.

There is a sort of haziness to it (doesn't have amphetamine-like hyperfocus) and the stimulation doesn't feel particularly forced. Again for a piperazine, which are notorious for their body load, 4-PMPD was gentle. Not particularly anxiogenic, mild comedown, even with heroic doses.

It is very hard to compare it against another stimulant, perhaps closest to something like n-ethyl-cypenamine. Or maybe BZP-light.

What made you order it? It's not a particularly desirable stimulant (although I did use all of mine in time).

The EC50s that I listed on the 4-PMPD Wikipedia page make it seem like it's more fun than it really is. All piperazine stimulants or psychedelics are subpar, or even toxic.

 

[sludgekatana]

Oral and intranasal. It cannot be smoked, at least not as a salt. I vaguely recollect making a crude freebase with sodium carbonate during some etizolam fueled attempt to get high on something, but don't think it worked well. The powder I had was very light, white and fluffy, formed clumps easily (which makes it a little awkward to snort).

Don't expect much of a high, I mean there is some mood lift, and it is forgiving at high doses. I certainly tried to get high on it, and wasnt especially successful. A few hundred milligrams will result in stimulation and pupil dilation, but not particularly euphoric. Eventually I resigned and treated it for what it was: a gentle, functional stimulant.

It didn't feel toxic or hard on the body, but who knows what impact it actually had.

There is a sort of haziness to it (doesn't have amphetamine-like hyperfocus) and the stimulation doesn't feel particularly forced. Again for a piperazine, which are notorious for their body load, 4-PMPD was gentle. Not particularly anxiogenic, mild comedown, even with heroic doses.

It is very hard to compare it against another stimulant, perhaps closest to something like n-ethyl-cypenamine. Or maybe BZP-light.

What made you order it? It's not a particularly desirable stimulant (although I did use all of mine in time).

The EC50s that I listed on the 4-PMPD Wikipedia page make it seem like it's more fun than it really is. All piperazine stimulants or psychedelics are subpar, or even toxic.

Thanks for the info! I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to try it, but I'll try to report back. I'll like try plugging it, because it's already in liquid form, and I guess I just like plugging stuff. I really hope the 5% impurities are nothing toxic. I have a friend who has access to GCMS and other tools, maybe I can send some to them for analysis.

What made you order it?

Oh, just curiosity, and I happened to find it from my favorite chemical company. I've compulsively ordered lots of stuff out of pure curiosity. I get a kick out of just trying stuff, I can't help myself with RCs sometimes, it's just too much fun... even if something I got ends up being a waste of money, it's still worth it for me just to have tried it.
I mean, you must understand at some level, it seems like you've tried lots of RCs yourself, right? What drove you to order it?

 

[negrogesic]

I mean, you must understand at some level, it seems like you've tried lots of RCs yourself, right? What drove you to order it?

Yes, I have a cabinet full of jars with experimental/exotic compounds, many with names that are comprised of seemingly random letters and numbers. Some of them I've only tried a few times, like zylofuramine (that one has an actual name). Most are just curiosities.

Odd about the 5% impurity. I'm always suspicious of things sold as liquids