⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

[Eligiu]

Not my problem.

Not interested in your Zelda game.

Then if you have nothing to discuss which is relevant to the actual topic of the thread, I think we can safely say that this interaction went essentially the same as every other time it's happened, except I now ceased to give much thought to anything that wasn't directly relevant to the thread.

Assuming I deliberately ignored your other post is assuming the worst, more or less.

And no, I am not going to respond to it as its not relevant to the thread topic. Sorry.

I'm sorry that I am not willing to engage with you on this topic for what may be the dozenth time, but frankly I think we both have better things to do, and there are threads in other areas of the forum where you can debate this topic to your hearts content.

Have a good day.

 

[arrall]

Not my problem if you accidentally ignored a post making it seem like you tactically ignored a post. (...How about responding now that you've seen it?)

Not interested in your Zelda game.

I don't assume the worst in people. You just made that up. Do you see the irony?

No need to be an asshole, Mjall.
Calm down and give the constant argument provocation a break for a few days, okay?

 

[Mjäll]

No need to be an asshole, Mjall.
Calm down and give the constant argument provocation a break for a few days, okay?

Calling someone an asshole is way more impolite and rude than anything i've said.

Do you realize that?

 

[Mjäll]

Then if you have nothing to discuss which is relevant to the actual topic of the thread, I think we can safely say that this interaction went essentially the same as every other time it's happened, except I now ceased to give much thought to anything that wasn't directly relevant to the thread.

Assuming I deliberately ignored your other post is assuming the worst, more or less.

And no, I am not going to respond to it as its not relevant to the thread topic. Sorry.

I'm sorry that I am not willing to engage with you on this topic for what may be the dozenth time, but frankly I think we both have better things to do, and there are threads in other areas of the forum where you can debate this topic to your hearts content.

Have a good day.

You're now admitting your error in the least honest way possible.

You were interested in the off topic until proven wrong. Now you're moralizing on me. What absolute silliness.

 

[axe battler]

Yeah let's not turn this thread into a war. It's simply about sexual preferences. If you want to talk about the pitfalls about transitioning then CEPS is probably better as it has nothing to do with sex, love or relationships.
Wow I'm on shrooms and that was difficult to write when my keys are moving and flashing.

 

[arrall]

The detransition movement is also starting. Some of the kids are growing up and realizing their bodies were butchered. That's what will be the nail in the coffin on this unscientific movement in the USA. Endocrinology in the rest of the world has kept its sanity.

I believe that knee surgery has 10-20x+ the regret rate of gender reassignment surgery according to numerous studies conducted in recent decades.

We’re far more likely to see a knee surgery reversal movement than a detransition “movement”.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Being gay isn't "expressing your sexuality" or a kink. It is an orientation that you are born with.

Unless you believe non human animals are also turned gay by traumas in their childhood.

I didn't say that it was a kink, improve you reading comprehension.

Of course it is expressing your sexuality, even more so than with heterosexual orientation because it isn't driven by reproductive instinct. There's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe animals can be turned gay by childhood trauma, how do you know they can't? You're just assuming they can't, what are you basing that on?

 

[iridescentblack]

One of my favorite game series had a trailer recently released on a new and upcoming Fable. After I watched the trailer I naturally gravitated back towards the menu in order to look for more information. It was literally the second video listed (and so on) that people were already beginning to bash the game, specifically saying shit about how the female protagonist is a biological male and stuff like that. I didn't count the number of videos that I could label transphobic. Turns out the most watched videos on that particular subject were filled with misinformation. Why am I not surprised?

It seems like this happens a lot. Something goes public and the next thing you know transgenders are to blame.

Aren't there bigger problems going on right now... like mass shootings?

 

[Eligiu]

One of my favorite game series had a trailer recently released on a new and upcoming Fable. After I watched the trailer I naturally gravitated back towards the menu in order to look for more information. It was literally the second video listed (and so on) that people were already beginning to bash the game, specifically saying shit about how the female protagonist is a biological male and stuff like that. I didn't count the number of videos that I could label transphobic. Turns out the most watched videos on that particular subject were filled with misinformation. Why am I not surprised?

It seems like this happens a lot. Something goes public and the next thing you know transgenders are to blame.

Aren't there bigger problems going on right now... like mass shootings?

There are so many more important problems. Last week I had some random guy on Facebook private message me demanding I show him photos of trans people who passed as cis because he claimed 'you can always tell.'

I said no, and we went back and forth a bit. He again stated 'a man will always be a man etc etc etc' "a woman will always be a woman etc etc.'

He 100% was absolutely certain he could clock any trans person. He then proceeded to call me Mr and sir a number of times unironically.

I didn't inform him, because I knew he would do the whole 'oh no I actually knew I just pretended i didn't so that you would admit to it' crap.

But like, I completely fail to see how that was remotely approaching a good use of anyone's time. Much like most if not all debates here about these topics unless people are coming in good faith.

 

[AlanaaBanana]

I don't think you know enough about puberty blockers and their side effects. It's not just some basic process that can be easily reversed to a point before medical intervention. There are serious long-lasting effects and I would argue that this practice overall is significantly lowering life expectancies for the participants.

With regards to the spirit release/hypnosis therapy, it's not supposed to be forced upon anyone. It should be objectively studied and offered as an alternative therapy that people could research and try of their own free will, potentially before resorting to medications or "converting to a gender they weren't born in". It's non-invasive and not physically harmful. But at least one state in Australia has outlawed the practice. Why would they do that?

I probably didn't make it clear enough in my post, I believe no one is kept on puberty blockers longer than a couple to a few years.
However yes, the effects are generally reversible, and is agreed upon by most medical literature. Nobody has been kept on it longer than 2-3 years in my knowledge. There are risks, and that was not denied. I believe I've added adequate citations for this as well. The article you've supplied me here is a surgery done, I don't believe this has any relevancy to the question I was answering. Yes, these drugs are used in chemical castration, which is too generally reversible, it's a scary word. But the luprons own FDA approval states that. If I'm missing something here, I'd love to be corrected.
When testosterone is suppressed, libido goes down, as with sperm production in men. When you cease, it returns.



In regards of conversion therapy you bring up here - it's been backed scientifically there is no benefit, that it is damaging to an individual and is quite traumatic for many. There is nothing out there that supports otherwise. There is no benefit to it.
Maybe that is why one state in australia outlawed it?

 

[Droppersneck]

Not attacking or being combative, but genuinely curious. What would be the point of only blocking puberty for a couple years? Wouldn’t it just start after you ceased use. And what does that look like, we know puberty is responsible for many basic human structural changes. Does that increase in bone density eventually occur? Shits wild to me, and there are zero long term studies. The fda is generally just there to help move along the approval process.

 

[AlanaaBanana]

Not attacking or being combative, but genuinely curious. What would be the point of only blocking puberty for a couple years? Wouldn’t it just start after you ceased use. And what does that look like, we know puberty is responsible for many basic human structural changes. Does that increase in bone density eventually occur? Shits wild to me, and there are zero long term studies. The fda is generally just there to help move along the approval process.

Questions are excellent to ask!

Puberty blockers first, evaluate, hormones and continuation of blockers next when patient is older and it's been decided to continue forth with hormones after evaluation basically to save time to make the decision by the physicians and patient.

They continue puberty blockers when hormones are started, to go through the changes of the gender they are transitioning to pubertal changes and block the un-wanted changes.
So they don't stop the blockers unless the patient is deemed to not follow to the next step of starting hormones when older.

Basically they're suppressing the patients assigned births pubertal changes, while emulating the gender they are transitioning to changes.


if I recall correctly, a lot of doctors due some risks, don't start puberty blockers until puberty starts later on, giving enough time for the decision to be made until 16~ by doctors and the patient.
To quote the endocrine society;

Risks include infertility (particularly if started in early puberty), low bone mineral density, headaches, hot flashes, fatigue, and mood alterations. For young transgender girls, puberty blocking medications will limit tissue available from penile and scrotal growth for future surgical treatments, but surgeons may be able to use tissue from other locations in this setting.

With a lot of those risks in mind, usually reasonable doctors start them later.


I have linked the endocrine societies website above in my previous post that details this much better. And yeah there's a lot of much more needed research done in the area of transgender health.

 

[Foreigner]

I believe that knee surgery has 10-20x+ the regret rate of gender reassignment surgery according to numerous studies conducted in recent decades.

We’re far more likely to see a knee surgery reversal movement than a detransition “movement”.

There's already a detransition movement starting. Your comparison is flawed. Knee surgery is a necessary procedure especially if walking is affected. There's nothing necessary about immediately granting transition to a child.

 

[Foreigner]

I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but that dude is a troll. 100%. I know these things.

You're right. Thanks.

 

[Droppersneck]

Questions are excellent to ask!

Puberty blockers first, evaluate, hormones and continuation of blockers next when patient is older and it's been decided to continue forth with hormones after evaluation basically to save time to make the decision by the physicians and patient.

They continue puberty blockers when hormones are started, to go through the changes of the gender they are transitioning to pubertal changes and block the un-wanted changes.
So they don't stop the blockers unless the patient is deemed to not follow to the next step of starting hormones when older.

Basically they're suppressing the patients assigned births pubertal changes, while emulating the gender they are transitioning to changes.


if I recall correctly, a lot of doctors due some risks, don't start puberty blockers until puberty starts later on, giving enough time for the decision to be made until 16~ by doctors and the patient.
To quote the endocrine society;


With a lot of those risks in mind, usually reasonable doctors start them later.


I have linked the endocrine societies website above in my previous post that details this much better. And yeah there's a lot of much more needed research done in the area of transgender health.

You don’t have to be a doctor to know that there are going to be serious health consequences to this. And this doctor deciding whether to move on to hormones is essentially the doctor moving you from oxy 40s to oxy 60s. No doubt some are good doctors and care, but that’s not a good business model. It just feels like another medical grift, at the expense of extremely confused and vulnerable people. I could be completely wrong, and im willing to keep an open mind.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Let’s say on average a male starts puberty at 10 and it ends at 15…so if a kid starts taking blockers at 10 and is on them for 3 years they have essentially missed out on 3 years of puberty, and will always be deformed compared to their peers….or am I suppose to believe that kid will just start puberty from the beginning and run it’s full cycle ending at 18 instead of 15…..I don’t care what woke science is cited I’m calling bullshit

 

[AlanaaBanana]

Let’s say on average a male starts puberty at 10 and it ends at 15…so if a kid starts taking blockers at 10 and is on them for 3 years they have essentially missed out on 3 years of puberty, and will always be deformed compared to their peers….or am I suppose to believe that kid will just start puberty from the beginning and run it’s full cycle ending at 18 instead of 15…..I don’t care what woke science is cited I’m calling bullshit

I then pose a question for you;
What about precocious puberty cases? These medications are routinely used in cases puberty has onset too early, and are stopped at a later time.

It's kind of silly to just dismiss science as "woke science", if it pertains to a topic you disagree with.

 

[Droppersneck]

Let’s say on average a male starts puberty at 10 and it ends at 15…so if a kid starts taking blockers at 10 and is on them for 3 years they have essentially missed out on 3 years of puberty, and will always be deformed compared to their peers….or am I suppose to believe that kid will just start puberty from the beginning and run it’s full cycle ending at 18 instead of 15…..I don’t care what woke science is cited I’m calling bullshit

One thing for sure is it condemns that person to manletdom, but that’s likely what they are going for. I always stand by the Pizza Hut analogy, no matter how they repurpose the building you always know what it was. But I’m guessing if you get to things before puberty then they can hope for a androgynous look.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I then pose a question for you;
What about precocious puberty cases? These medications are routinely used in cases puberty has onset too early, and are stopped at a later time.

It's kind of silly to just dismiss it as "woke science", if it pertains to a topic you disagree with.

So let’s say using the 10-15 average puberty timeline a outlier starts puberty at 8 and goes on blockers till they are 10 then starts puberty at 10 and ends at 15, they lost 2 years of their personal puberty, same would go for someone who takes them for trans issues too, making them permanently deformed…cause if it just picked up and ran it’s normal course that outlier would then end puberty at 17 not 15 and ultimately end up in the same place no ?

 

[AlanaaBanana]

So let’s say using the 10-15 average puberty timeline a outlier starts puberty at 8 and goes on blockers till they are 10 then starts puberty at 10 and ends at 15, they lost 2 years of their personal puberty, same would go for someone who takes them for trans issues too, making them permanently deformed

[citation needed]
I'm not a male, but don't need to be one to understand this isn't how puberty works in males, or either sex.
So using the outlier here, they don't lose 2 years. They just take longer to develop. Same concept as delayed puberty.