α,α-dimethyltryptamine

[permastoned]

α-methyltryptamine is supposed to be the tryptamine analogue of amphetamine according to shulgin. It is purported to have effects similar to MDMA but also psychedelic and long acting. Wikipedia describes it as a 'long-acting psychedelic, euphoriant, and stimulant'

I would be curious to know what α,α-dimethyltryptamine would be like in effect. i have searched around and can't find any information on this compound. this compound would be the tryptamine homologue of methamphetamine.

another compound that would be interesting is the methylated form of α-ethyltryptamine. This compound is said to be very similar to MDMA but without the 'crash'. The methylated version might prove a stronger stimulant, as is generally the case.

the awesome part about these molecules is that they are both stimulants and psychedelics!

 

[Swerlz]

The alpha,alpha-dimethyl tryptamine homologue (a,a-DMT) is also known. It represents the phentermine to amphetamine relationship where, again there is a three fold drop in potency.

from tihkal

 

[nuke]

The alpha,alpha-dimethyl tryptamine homologue (a,a-DMT) is also known. It represents the phentermine to amphetamine relationship where, again there is a three fold drop in potency. It would be a fair hypothesis to expect either of these "DMT's" to be active stimulants at reasonable dosages, but neither have been explored in man.

Unfortunately it's a positional isomer of α-ET and thusly illegal.

 

[permastoned]

Ahh shit, my bad. For some stupid reason I thought that in methamphetamine it was alpha,alpha dimethyl, but thats actually phentermine. Methamphetamine has the extra methyl coming from the Nitrogen atom.

So what I was looking for was N-Methyl-alpha-methyltryptamine

A search in google yields one result: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13920062

The paper is really old and makes some assumptions that aren't necessarily correct.

I would be really interested to try this compound because it would be the tryptamine version of Methamphetamine, and who could say no to that .

Does anyone here have experience with, or know anything about N-Methyl-alpha-methyltryptamine?

 

[Ylide]

Have you looked here?

 

[permastoned]

Have now. Thanks. Interesting that it wasnt as strong as alpha-methyltryptamine, you would expect it to be stronger if you look at the relationship between the phenethylamine versions.

How about n-methyl-alpha-ethyltryptamine?

 

[grue]

Regarding AMT, things must have gotten pretty interesting for a few denizens of the Soviet Union receiving antidepressant therapy 1960s-80s.

 

[dread]

How about n-methyl-alpha-ethyltryptamine?

I will predict it to be totally uninteresting.

 

[permastoned]

^Is there any reasoning behind that? I'm sure that there is, it would be nicer if people posted it outright rather than waiting to be asked, so they can rain flames in return.

Regarding AMT, things must have gotten pretty interesting for a few denizens of the Soviet Union receiving antidepressant therapy 1960s-80s.

Yeah.. quite jealous

 

[CrystalMethod2009]

Hmm... I'm wondering about the possibility of some rogue molecules thrown in with some of the local meth here over the years. I swear, swim sometimes shoots a mild dose and he says that he does experience mild hallucinations along with the stimulating effects, at least for the first hour or two. Happens sometimes to him when just snorting or smoking too. Depends on the stuff though, he says.

Years ago swim got some crank that was orangish but when water was applied, it looked like milk. A dime delivered directly caused an immediate mdma like experience. Very stimulating, moderately psychedelic, and definitely arousing. So I hear.

 

[dread]

^Is there any reasoning behind that? I'm sure that there is, it would be nicer if people posted it outright rather than waiting to be asked, so they can rain flames in return.

Reasoning is that secondary amines do not work very well with these compounds. Furthermore:

aMT > a,N-DMT
aMT > aET

therefore

aE-NMT < aET & a,N-DMT

Also wasn't there some toxicity problems with aET?

 

[permastoned]

aMT > aET

I don't know what you mean when you say 'greater than'. The effects of these two molecules are completely different. aET is said to be very similar to MDMA but without the 'crash'. As a psychedelic it is weak but as an empathogenic euphoriant it is very promising, from the erowid experience reports that I have read.

aMT > a,N-DMT

This logic I do follow, but it still is not certain that this will always be the case, because in the phenethylamines the opposite is true.

Years ago swim got some crank that was orangish but when water was applied, it looked like milk. A dime delivered directly caused an immediate mdma like experience. Very stimulating, moderately psychedelic, and definitely arousing. So I hear.

No need to use the SWIM and anonymity here, its useless anyway. That is rather interesting though, I'd say it is quite likely that the compound could have been a-MT. Regarding your experience of getting psychedelic visuals with normal speed, I have found with known speed (dexamphetamine) that I sometimes experience HPPD. For some reason, speed enhances my HPPD. As such, actual speed can cause mild psychedelic visuals for me, such as warping, and very light patterning.

Here is an experience report for a-ET:

Just two days after the past trial I decided to up the dosage a little bit more and see if I could discover anything else that AET had to offer. Most psychedelics I find I can use without feeling any compulsion, with the exception of empathogens, which I tend to use often while I have them. AET and AMT I find are the closest to full psychedelic chemicals that I have troubles keeping away from sometimes.

So, that being said, I decided this night to ingest the same dosage as last time, and then throw in a 50mg nasal booster at about T+1:00. The experience progressed just as previously, and then at T+1:00, shortly before the peak would start, I insufflated another 50mg. This time it burned even more fiercely, and for a few minutes I regretted taking more. However, by the time the burn faded, I was the highest I'd been thus far in my AET trials. Let me explain...

The effects from AET are not quite what I'd call a trip. It's more like a cross between a light mental high which is rather difficult to describe and an empathogen. At this dosage level, I found it quite difficult to stay focused on a single thing, and the eye wiggles were quite strong at times. I would not want to have to do anything in this state. It's also quite physically pleasurable, and at times ridiculously so. As the peak really sets in, at least in my pretty much sedentary setting, I found the urge to drift off into trance-land to be quite strong, and thus I spent a good two hours drifting in and out of consciousness, always with some link to reality. But that link grew thin sometimes.

After a few hours of this, it began to slowly trail off, and by T+6 or 7, there was just a little residual body high/stimulation, which I found it pretty easy to sleep on. I woke up the next day, as I did in the other two trials, feeling fine. In fact, I felt pretty great. Since then, there has been no depression or lethargy to speak of, which excites me because empathogens tend to really kick my ass for the following few days to a week.

SUMMARY

I'm truly glad to have discovered a sample of AET. So far I've found that it would probably have very little value in reaching anyplace profound, but then again MDMA and its like have become useless to me over the years - perhaps had I tried AET 4 years or so ago, I would have had a very psychedelic and profound journey. I guess I'll never know.

 

[dread]

This logic I do follow, but it still is not certain that this will always be the case, because in the phenethylamines the opposite is true.

Actually no. MDA is more potent by weight than MDMA, and adding the N-methyl abolishes all activity from psychedelics like DOx and 2C:s.

 

[permastoned]

Like I said, I am not looking for a psychedelic, and secondly, potency per weight has no bearing on how recreational a substance is.. all you have to do is increase the weight that you ingest. Which is why MDMA is far more popular than MDA.. because the addition of the methyl to the nitrogen results in greater dopamine release and hence it is a 'stronger' stimulant, not per weight, but in the effect that it produces.

 

[dread]

But MDA has greater 5ht affinity, and hence more psychedelic effects.

Besides tryptamines just don't work like phens. There's not a single tryptamine with a secondary amine that seems interesting.

quote on tihkal entry of a,n-dmt:

(with 75 mg, orally) "Compulsive sneezing, and quite uncomfortable. Urpy. Tried eating some quiche, and couldn't do it -- no appetite at all. Pulse seems to be proper, but it is almost as if I were using speed without any of the stimulant virtues. After about three or four hours I am losing the buzziness property and am pretty much normal in three or for more hours. Still some teeth clench. Sleep OK. I'm not sure that going higher is worth it. Or even repeating it. Why?"

The 5-meo version of same compound:

(with 20 mg, orally) "I was in quite a depressed state, but I don't think it was the a,N,O. But it certainly didn't lift the depression. Everything I saw confirmed my growing despair about the human race and I concluded, after a few hours, that we have doomed ourselves. I am tired at being angry at it all. Enough already."