¡forgiving oneself!

michael

Bluelight Crew
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Apr 11, 2001
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up on the hill where they do do the boogie
i have been mostly sober for about 3 years now. one of the obstacles in my life since then is an inability to forgive myself for the things that i did before that, and it has really kept myself from acheiving the things that i could have otherwise.

well as of today i say fuck that. i forgive myself for what i did in the past. i forgive myself for being a drunk. i forgive myself for being a user. from this day forward, it's about what i do NOW. it's no longer about the past.

<3
 
That's great that you were about to do this! :)

I have the same problem. I can forgive others, but not myself. Honestly, I don't even know how to go about even trying to do that. I've never been able to view it as a switch I could just flick. I think part of it is that I don't believe that others should forgive me for the things I did (as they were just that bad). I beat the living shit out of myself on a daily basis over things I've done, and ya it keeps me from feeling any peace, or achieving the self-confidence to excel in life.

Can you elaborate on just how you came to do this? The how you did what you did, so many some others can be better steered in the right direction...
 
That's great that you were about to do this! :)

I have the same problem. I can forgive others, but not myself. Honestly, I don't even know how to go about even trying to do that. I've never been able to view it as a switch I could just flick. I think part of it is that I don't believe that others should forgive me for the things I did (as they were just that bad). I beat the living shit out of myself on a daily basis over things I've done, and ya it keeps me from feeling any peace, or achieving the self-confidence to excel in life.

Can you elaborate on just how you came to do this? The how you did what you did, so many some others can be better steered in the right direction...

Try to perceive yourself as you are now, as a completely different/separate entity from what you were like in the past. :)
 
michael what took you so long?

your posts are absolutely gorgeous, pure and strong. i am so glad for you, and for those of us who never judged you so don't need to forgive anything.

we are all happy to share in your new found freedom though. it sounds so good; reads so well.

go michael! go michael! go michael! go michael! go michael!
 
That's great that you were about to do this! :)

I have the same problem. I can forgive others, but not myself. Honestly, I don't even know how to go about even trying to do that. I've never been able to view it as a switch I could just flick. I think part of it is that I don't believe that others should forgive me for the things I did (as they were just that bad). I beat the living shit out of myself on a daily basis over things I've done, and ya it keeps me from feeling any peace, or achieving the self-confidence to excel in life.

Can you elaborate on just how you came to do this? The how you did what you did, so many some others can be better steered in the right direction...

As a thinking, feeling, human being who knows absolutely that hey, we're all human, we can all make mistakes, and no point dwelling on the mistakes other people made in the past ( and I will do my best to refrain from pointing those mistakes out, cos it would be unfair, right? ) I'm still desperately trying to apply the same forgiveness to the things I've done.

I think the hardest thing is that I know others forgive me all too readily ( like me Mam, for instance ) and I can forgive her for mistakes she made what with the shit she had going on in her life, but I cannot forgive myself, cos hey, I'm clever enough to feel other people's pain, and I should never have done the shit I did to them. I can't forgive myself. I don't know how to get past it RL, and G*d knows I'm trying. I just can't, and it kills me. I crucify myself on the altar of my own self-hatred day-in, day-out, and I'm in full-on self-destruct mode at the minute, burning bridges at a ferocious pace FFS! Anyone has a solution to this I'm all ears, cos I really am struggling to live with this anymore. :(
 
Sepher <3

Please stop... you are important. Your mistakes were important too. It is the only way I have ever learned a god damn thing... by fucking shit up.

I'll probably fuck up some more before it's all over. Can you readjust your view of the shit you have done to the shit you have learned from?

I try new things and sometimes it goes well and sometimes it's a pile of shit but I have to live this way. I can't learn anything any other way. If you hate yourself for living and learning, you need to ask yourself why. There's no need because everyone else is doing exactly the same thing.

I wish I knew better how to help you through this dark time you are having. Everyone feels like you, but can't express it honestly like you can.
 
Self-blame is like worry in that it is not only useless and counter-productive but even destructive and yet some of us just seem hardwired to loop endlessly through these traps. One thing I can say, that Michael, seems to have touched on, is that at a certain point in your life it is sheer exhaustion with the burden of all that negativity directed at yourself that just makes you say, "enough." In my own life, age played a part. A huge tenet of Buddhism is compassion for oneself. It is uncomfortable. We feel the need to endlessly self-punish, to put ourselves down and see everything we do in a less than generous light. Why?

I can't really answer my own question but I do think that we live in one of the strangest times. Our culture is one of unbelievable narcissism and self-obsession and greed and yet people feel worse about themselves than ever before. We are taught to blame, but never taught how to forgive or even why we should. We live in a culture of craziness. It is a revolutionary act to face yourself in the mirror and practice acceptance for what you see. In the case of what you have "done", wrongs you feel you have committed or behavior that you are not proud of, what if you were to see those acts as your teachers rather than what defines you? I know that the things that I have done wrong in my life are the foundation for my whole moral outlook. Parents and teachers can say, "don't lie or cheat or steal", but it is simply an abstract until you do one of those things and see the pain you cause by doing so. Sometimes it takes a long time to get the lesson.

It is interesting to me that two people that I admire so deeply, Sepher and Redleader, were the first two to respond to this thread and express how difficult self-forgiveness is in their own lives. From the outside, I could say without a doubt that these are two of the finest human beings around--how can they not forgive themselves when all the good they do so clearly outweighs any pain they have caused in the past (or in the present)? The book, "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron has quite a bit of useful wisdom about learning to be compassionate towards oneself in order to be truly compassionate to others.

Michael, congratulations on your resolve to change a self-destructive pattern and your success in doing so. Thank you for starting the thread and thus, the discussion. We can all benefit from this no matter where we are or what we have done, or not done, in life so far. We are human beings, perfect in our imperfections, perfect in our ability to change and adapt and learn until the day we die. I find that very comforting and very exhilarating at the same time.<3
 
As a thinking, feeling, human being who knows absolutely that hey, we're all human, we can all make mistakes, and no point dwelling on the mistakes other people made in the past ( and I will do my best to refrain from pointing those mistakes out, cos it would be unfair, right? ) I'm still desperately trying to apply the same forgiveness to the things I've done.

Forgiveness can be such a mind-game, really. Have you ever "forgiven someone" for something to be polite (perhaps when the person came around trying to make ammends)? When you really still harboured some bad feelings toward the person? I have. And then you get this lingering guilt that now it is you that has done something wrong, misleading the person as s/he attempted to get some peace... I always worry that this is what's really going on when I try and seek forgiveness from others I have hurt. I fear that what actually is going on is that in my attempt to gain forgiveness in my quest for mental peace, I have gone and further screwed up that other person in the head. Now they feel bad for (1) the pain of the original action and (2) for misleading me in the forgiveness. Yes, I know that this is just the neurosis talking, but I think that my inability to let go of this stuff is tied to my fear that I'm only being forgiven on a cordial level, and that I'm continuing to cause damage as long as I know the other person. This has always created a desire for me to run away from situations, instead of trying to fix them, which has its own guilt/anxiety to it. If anyone is going to understand this, it will be you Sepher.

I think the hardest thing is that I know others forgive me all too readily ( like me Mam, for instance ) and I can forgive her for mistakes she made what with the shit she had going on in her life, but I cannot forgive myself, cos hey, I'm clever enough to feel other people's pain, and I should never have done the shit I did to them. I can't forgive myself. I don't know how to get past it RL, and G*d knows I'm trying. I just can't, and it kills me. I crucify myself on the altar of my own self-hatred day-in, day-out, and I'm in full-on self-destruct mode at the minute, burning bridges at a ferocious pace FFS! Anyone has a solution to this I'm all ears, cos I really am struggling to live with this anymore. :(

Ya, I know that I overthink things to death and that things that seem like gigantic deals to me probably don't even matter much at all to others. So I am really blowing things way out of proportion (and don't even really need to be forgiven for stuff that I think is really bad). But no! See, I have gravitated to other neurotic nutcases like myself throughout my life, so when things in these social circles get all screwed up, I feel overwhelmed by what I believe is a hurricane of outstanding lingering thoughts and feelings.

I can't really answer my own question but I do think that we live in one of the strangest times. Our culture is one of unbelievable narcissism and self-obsession and greed and yet people feel worse about themselves than ever before. We are taught to blame, but never taught how to forgive or even why we should. We live in a culture of craziness. It is a revolutionary act to face yourself in the mirror and practice acceptance for what you see.

A "society of ambition without compassion."

We are so over-integrated, and when we are interacting with so many people on a daily basis, we have a tendency to only have the time to blame, not to forgive (something that takes a lot more patience and effort).

It is interesting to me that two people that I admire so deeply, Sepher and Redleader, were the first two to respond to this thread and express how difficult self-forgiveness is in their own lives. From the outside, I could say without a doubt that these are two of the finest human beings around--how can they not forgive themselves when all the good they do so clearly outweighs any pain they have caused in the past (or in the present)?

It's a feeling deep inside that people are only complimenting me like that because they don't know the complete RedLeader, and an anxiety that as soon as I elaborated enough on everything bad I have done, those compliments would be revoked. The answer to this fear would be "okay, so try me!", to which I would agree and write some big gigantic post about bad things I've done. After which, everyone would still want to be my friend and be telling me that everything is okay. After which, I'd feel happy for a few minutes, but then think Not enough elaboration! I must have not conveyed something well-enough, or my readers didn't understand just how perverse and awful the thoughts were behind those actions! And it would be iteration after iteration of this, never being able to shake the fear that if just one more layer of RedLeader was pulled back, everyone would understand and recant the forgiveness, shunning me away and finally understanding why I deserve to feel all of this pain.

I mean yes, clearly this is not healthy thinking and borderline insanity, but that's what happens when you've been self-medicating for years and years to keep the insanity at bay and then you suddenly stop.
 
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if you can, how can you make amends towards the situation that brings up the feelings not worth forgiving, what can be learned from the situation to have the insight to take responsibility of future actions.
 
but I cannot forgive myself, cos hey, I'm clever enough to feel other people's pain, and I should never have done the shit I did to them. I can't forgive myself. I don't know how to get past it RL, and G*d knows I'm trying. I just can't, and it kills me. I crucify myself on the altar of my own self-hatred day-in, day-out, and I'm in full-on self-destruct mode at the minute, burning bridges at a ferocious pace FFS! Anyone has a solution to this I'm all ears, cos I really am struggling to live with this anymore. :(

you can forgive yourself. i only wished i had realized how easy it was years ago. you already realize how you are destroying yourself from within; why continue it?

i promise you it's as easy as i say it is.

i will write more after work
 
@sepher
you're a luv. ta for your i.m.
I couldn't answer. your inbox is full.

I'm so glad you smiled. I smiled too. Life's full of chuffers like us.

you can call me Frizz, if you are more comfortable with that. I answer to "git" also. ;)
 
Hey Frizz! :D

Took me a good ten minutes to clear that inbox so I could send PMs in the first place. Should prolly prune it even harder but there's PMs in there are kinda like old friends. I like to visit with them from time to time, you know? No? Just me wot does that then? Oh well! 8)

;)
 
i'll write a couple more words on how i got to where i am now.

why do we beat ourselves up and refuse to forgive ourselves? because on some level, we think that we DESERVE that abuse. this is flawed thinking. i don't deserve it, and neither do y'all. once i realized that, it was just like flipping a switch - and when i was still beating myself up, that was the metaphor i used - it can't be just like flipping a switch! BUT IT IS.

<3
 
Self-blame is like worry in that it is not only useless and counter-productive but even destructive and yet some of us just seem hardwired to loop endlessly through these traps. One thing I can say, that Michael, seems to have touched on, is that at a certain point in your life it is sheer exhaustion with the burden of all that negativity directed at yourself that just makes you say, "enough." In my own life, age played a part. A huge tenet of Buddhism is compassion for oneself. It is uncomfortable. We feel the need to endlessly self-punish, to put ourselves down and see everything we do in a less than generous light. Why?

I can't really answer my own question but I do think that we live in one of the strangest times. Our culture is one of unbelievable narcissism and self-obsession and greed and yet people feel worse about themselves than ever before. We are taught to blame, but never taught how to forgive or even why we should. We live in a culture of craziness. It is a revolutionary act to face yourself in the mirror and practice acceptance for what you see. In the case of what you have "done", wrongs you feel you have committed or behavior that you are not proud of, what if you were to see those acts as your teachers rather than what defines you? I know that the things that I have done wrong in my life are the foundation for my whole moral outlook. Parents and teachers can say, "don't lie or cheat or steal", but it is simply an abstract until you do one of those things and see the pain you cause by doing so. Sometimes it takes a long time to get the lesson.

It is interesting to me that two people that I admire so deeply, Sepher and Redleader, were the first two to respond to this thread and express how difficult self-forgiveness is in their own lives. From the outside, I could say without a doubt that these are two of the finest human beings around--how can they not forgive themselves when all the good they do so clearly outweighs any pain they have caused in the past (or in the present)? The book, "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron has quite a bit of useful wisdom about learning to be compassionate towards oneself in order to be truly compassionate to others.

Michael, congratulations on your resolve to change a self-destructive pattern and your success in doing so. Thank you for starting the thread and thus, the discussion. We can all benefit from this no matter where we are or what we have done, or not done, in life so far. We are human beings, perfect in our imperfections, perfect in our ability to change and adapt and learn until the day we die. I find that very comforting and very exhilarating at the same time.<3

this is such a super post that i wanted to read it again.
 
An undeniably beautiful and harm-reducing thread, thank you all for delivering me (and each other) from a most unpleasant trip to the dark side..

just another reason I have so much love for BL.

and to add to what Frizz said... Fuck yeah Micahel!
 
i really like that idea, michael. i've never thought of it that way. i don't think i can truly forgive myself for being the self absorbed dick ive been. how do reason with yourself and allow the forgiveness to really take? isn't our past an irrefutable part of who we are? why should we be excused for the things weve done?
 
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