Opioids Vote for your favorite Opiate (in terms of warmth, Euphoria, bliss, etc.)

[marsnd]

Hydromorphone - while vicodin is great and turns into hydromorphone. Nothing to me comes closer to bliss than hydromorphone.

When I got sick with CoVID I got prescribed Tussionex - would love to sip that shit with a straw. Mix mex up a ketamine and hydromorphone cocktail please kthx

I don't think I had tussionex. I had liquid codeine at some point, I know I have. That euphoria is something I chase on the treadmil now. That feeling is insane, and a bug reason us addicts can't do it "Once in a while".

 

[Halif2]

Your initial post was super interesting, hexenstahl. There were two or three items on your list that were entirely new to me.

I had never heard of "pantopon" before. I would love to know what that was like.

 

[4DQSAR]

Your initial post was super interesting, hexenstahl. There were two or three items on your list that were entirely new to me.

I had never heard of "pantopon" before. I would love to know what that was like.

Pantopon appears much the same as the opium suppositories that were mentioned in the 1990s British film 'Trainspotting'.

We keep circling back to the fact that mixtures of opium alkaloids appears to be more euphoric (or at leat different) to the pure materials.

I pointed out people undergoing HAT would sell their dry ampoules of diamorphine hydrochloride and buy brown heroin. The explaination was always that pure diamorphine has no warmth or was too subtle.

It made ME wonder if the impure krokodil was described as highly euphoric because it ISN'T pure desomorphine but a real smorgasbord of desomorphine (deoxymorphine-D), deoxymorphine-C, methyldesorphine and likely other actives. Not in sufficient amounts to be active alone in the amount of krokodil typically consumed but likely because they bind in slightly different receptor domains.

 

[chippermonk]

For me, the warmest most euphoric opioids I took were the ones I first took: codeine and oxycodone. Wow, did codeine use to work for me back then, and for years after.. Maybe I had naturally high CYP2D6. Surprisingly perhaps, dilaudid ( snorted or oral) got me very high but not in a particularly enjoyable way. Nor did morphine, and my one time trying heroin just made me sick. Hydrocodone I have always enjoyed.
Now days, I don't really seem to get as much out of any of them, perhaps kratom ruined them for me. But I also think our metabolism and chemistry changes with age.

 

[4DQSAR]

But I also think our metabolism and chemistry changes with age.

Could be!

I very rarely touch alcohol and then at the 1 shot/1 (small) bottle or 1 can level. Any more and *BANG* 24 hour hangover.

In fact the nice bit is compressed into about ten minutes then, then the horrors.

With opioids, I take what I'm prescibed with zero enthusiasm, just because without my medication, I can't do those things that make life worthwhile... like WALKING or SLEEPING. You know, the luxuries of life.

But seriously, kratom and 7-OHM have begat a series of semi-synthetics because researchers still seem to believe they can design their way out of the zero-trap. I remain to be convinced. I think it's just cynically a good way to carry on getting grants for a scaffold I truly believe will be explored and abandoned.

 

[doubledog]

Once I had a batch of poppy pods which were clearly active and strong, but also unpleasant in effects and tried to somehow improve them by some procedures I found online. One of them was successful and I was able to separate alkaloid (or compound) responsible for that unpleasantness.
Resulting extract active was clearly mostly morphine, but definitely lacking that euphoric opium entourage effect.

 

[4DQSAR]

Once I had a batch of poppy pods which were clearly active and strong, but also unpleasant in effects and tried to somehow improve them by some procedures I found online. One of them was successful and I was able to separate alkaloid (or compound) responsible for that unpleasantness.
Resulting extract active was clearly mostly morphine, but definitely lacking that euphoric opium entourage effect.

Boiling in calcium hydroxide (lime) is how the Afghans extract almost 100% of the morphine. In the plant about 50% is in the form of an not-very-soluble addion salt (meconic acid). Obviously that dangerous alkali has to be neutralized. They use ammonium chloride to neutralize and satuate the solution so the freebase morphine floats on the top.

 

[doubledog]

Boiling in calcium hydroxide (lime) is how the Afghans extract almost 100% of the morphine. In the plant about 50% is in the form of an not-very-soluble addion salt (meconic acid). Obviously that dangerous alkali has to be neutralized. They use ammonium chloride to neutralize and satuate the solution so the freebase morphine floats on the top.

Yes, I know all the details, but would like to mention that processing latex opium and poppy pods/straw have significant differencies.

 

[CfZrx]

black tar heroin whoops the other opiates/opioids butts

 

[cnnka]

black tar heroin whoops the other opiates/opioids butts

I know black tar is smoked , but can you eat it just like opium ?

 

[4DQSAR]

Yes, I know all the details, but would like to mention that processing latex opium and poppy pods/straw have significant differencies.

Is there any difference in the mix of alkaloids?

I ask because if you read my earlier post, I did note several times that in the UK where medical diamorphine is use in HAT, a lot of clients prescibed diamorphine would sell their free and prescribed dry amps and buy impure brown Afghan heroin because it wasn't pure diamorphine but in fact a spectrum. Thats along with the heroin, 3- and 6- monoacetyl morphine as well as bog standard morphine as well as acetyl codeine and acetyl codeine are all present in small quantities BUT it was the fact was a mixure that result in it being preferred.

So excepting the acetylation, it's likewise a spectrum of actives opioids.

So, therefore, tha very route mentioned in fact produces that spectrum of alkaloids.

There are non-opioid alkaloid sas well, papavarine and noscapine which I suspect also alter the subjective effect and both find medical utility in other fields. But other than that, while there may be miniscule amounts of things like thebaine, we know it must be minicule as they all seem to be toxic - but the dose makes the poison.

Since straw poppy straw INCLUDES poppy pods* and ~94% of medical morphine is produced from poppy straw so we can be reasonably certain that the route I outlined is merely the first step in the extraction process and that by definition an alkaloid contains a basic nitrogen, even extraction with water won't solubize any addictional actives. The only difference is tha

*At least the 1961 UNODC declaration uses that in the definition.

 

[CfZrx]

I know black tar is smoked , but can you eat it just like opium ?

Yeah, I guess you could! I mean, you can take a couple hundred mg of morphine and be high as fuck, so I would guess 200mg of good black tar would put your dick in the dirt. Of corse you would rather just inject half that and be 10X higher.
(NOVICES DONT TAKE 200 MG OF HEROIN OR MORPHINE, ITS WAAAAY TOO MUCH)

 

[doubledog]

Is there any difference in the mix of alkaloids?

I ask because if you read my earlier post, I did note several times that in the UK where medical diamorphine is use in HAT, a lot of clients prescibed diamorphine would sell their free and prescribed dry amps and buy impure brown Afghan heroin because it wasn't pure diamorphine but in fact a spectrum. Thats along with the heroin, 3- and 6- monoacetyl morphine as well as bog standard morphine as well as acetyl codeine and acetyl codeine are all present in small quantities BUT it was the fact was a mixure that result in it being preferred.

So excepting the acetylation, it's likewise a spectrum of actives opioids.

So, therefore, tha very route mentioned in fact produces that spectrum of alkaloids.

There are non-opioid alkaloid sas well, papavarine and noscapine which I suspect also alter the subjective effect and both find medical utility in other fields. But other than that, while there may be miniscule amounts of things like thebaine, we know it must be minicule as they all seem to be toxic - but the dose makes the poison.

Since straw poppy straw INCLUDES poppy pods* and ~94% of medical morphine is produced from poppy straw so we can be reasonably certain that the route I outlined is merely the first step in the extraction process and that by definition an alkaloid contains a basic nitrogen, even extraction with water won't solubize any addictional actives. The only difference is tha

*At least the 1961 UNODC declaration uses that in the definition.

No difference in mix of alkaloids, I just wanted to mention that procedure for extraction of poppy straw is different than for latex opium. But that's not so important point here, it's just technical aspect.

You are absolutely right that mix of alkaloids alters the effects and pure heroin or morphine is less euphoric or pleasant than mix of heroin/morphine with other minor opium alkaloids.
Based on my experiments my opinion is that the compound responsible for most of the differences in opium/pods effects is noscapine.

 

[Gridlink]

Yep. around 2010 everyone I knew in the USA placed oxymorphone or levorphanol (Levo -Dromoran) at the top of their list.

The 'abuse resistant' version of Opana that appeared in 2011 turned out fard harder to crush, BUT easier to defeat as long as you were prepared to let the pills dissolve in a specific solvent. I believe it's the only case in which the abuse resistant version was abused MORE than the original.

But for around 2 months, before it became widely known that the polyamide bionder could be defeated by said solvent and the magic ingredient (time), those 'new formulation' Opana became very cheap so those who KNEW ended up whacking up half a dozen 40mg Opana PER DAY.

THAT didn't end well!

Oxymorphone IV and hydromorphone IV would definitely be toward the upper end of my list due to the rush...but at the absolute top would be levorphanol, for sure. To me it felt even more euphoric than oxycodone or oxymorphone, had a decent duration of action, and seemed to have a little bit of pleasant ketamine style weirdness mixed in - perhaps due to the MDMA antagonist properties.

Incidentally, why is L-methadone on the list? Does anyone actually have access to specific methadone enantiomers?

 

[4DQSAR]

L-methadone has significantly differently pharmkinetics that the raecemate. Injected it's supposed to have quite a whack behind it.

It's hard to find anyone left who has actually tasted levorphanol - I checked and in the US only something like 18Kg/year is produced. I GUESS it's only used in cancer pain where it's NMDA activity adds to the analgesia. I've noted almost EVERY nation had one and in the cases I know, it's a DLR.

I see the only issue with Levodromoran tablets is that they are only 2mg. Animal models suggest it's around x8 morpine in potency BUT it is graced by extremely high oral bioavailability so I guess it is one I would try, given the chance, since while I'm prescribed an opioid for severe chronic pain, it would be nice to be totally pain-free just for once..

I guess regardless of tolerance, 2mg provides granularity an say 10 of them some ooommmpphh...

 

[Gridlink]

L-methadone has significantly differently pharmkinetics that the raecemate. Injected it's supposed to have quite a whack behind it.

It's hard to find anyone left who has actually tasted levorphanol - I checked and in the US only something like 18Kg. I GUESS it's only used in cancer pain where it's NMDA activity adds to the analgesia. I've noted almost EVERY nation had one and in the cases I know, it's a DLR).

I see the only issue with Levodromoran tablets is that they are only 2mg. Animal models suggest it's around x8 morpine in potency BUT it is graced by extremely high oral bioavailability so I guess it is one I would try, given the chance, since I take at least 'as designed; if (historically) not always 'as prescribed).

I guess regardless of tolerance, 2mg provides grnularity an say 10 of them some ooommmpphh...

You are right about the 2 mg pills being a lowish dose. I always had to take at least 4-5 pills orally for levorphanol to have a recreational effect, and sometimes another 2-3 to redose after a few hours.

 

[4DQSAR]

You are right about the 2 mg pills being a lowish dose. I always had to take at least 4-5 pills orally for levorphanol to have a recreational effect, and sometimes another 2-3 to redose after a few hours.

One thing I noted is that unkike say normorphine, noroxycodone or even norhydromorphone, nor-levorphanol is considered significant in the analgesic activity i.e. the patient takes one pill [BID] for a few weeks and the ratio of levorphanol to norlevorphanol moves to the right.

But what I cannot discover is if norlevorphanol is still an active opioid and/or it's also (ore indeed the only) NMDA antagonist i.e. levorphanol may be an opioid, norlevorphanol the NMDA antagonist.

Your noting that a few more takes your riggh back up does tend to suggest accumulation is key and likely why 2 or 4mg [BID] is still considered the last word in pain control.

 

[spypilot]

hydromorphone has a special place in my heart
i cant use it as often anymore since im back in school but i still use it ocassionally and its amazing
if u asked me 2 years ago i wouldve been stuck between hydrocodone and tramadol
shit really did change a lot

 

[G_Chem]

I’ve tried some unique ones.. like 6-monobenzoyldihydromorphine. But Heroin will always be king in my book.

 

[spypilot]

heroin was a good one but i was always weary of those types of street drugs not to say i didnt do them or wouldnt do them if nothing else was presented
hydromorphone was always just better in my mind cuz atleast i had an idea of what dose i was taking