What opiates have been proven in studies to be more desirable than morphine?

[fastandbulbous]

Right, as ^^^ says, methadone is a strong pain killer with a high affinity for the mu receptor (~10nM). This is not true, it was designed by german scientists in WWII as a substitute for morphine, and they obviously wanted it to have strong affinity (i.e the older name, dolophine, "end of pain"). Also keep in mind some of methadone's family members (palfium, dipipanone)...

Also, in regards to buprenorphine, it is a partial mu-agonist and relatively weak kappa antagonist, and this is why it imposes a "ceiling" on itself at higher doses (at high enough doses the k-antagonist properties limit respiratory depression). It is exceedingly rare for someone to overdose on buprenorphine, ive never even heard of it happening once on its own (this doesnt mean it hasnt, though i would be somewhat skeptical). If one were to die from buprenorphine it would possibly be due to the metabolite norbuprenorphine, but this occurs in such low amounts that i have a hard time imagining this occurence (the dose would probably have to be spectacularly large). Also, i think naloxone may only somewhat reverse the respiratory depression (probably only in large doses as well; though im not entirely sure)...

Actually, the mention of Palfium (dextromoramide) has reminded me that it is way, way more euphoric than most opioids (probably on a par with dipipanone) and oral use creates a rush of sorts (can't think of another one that does). Dextromoramide can also (with caution), be snorted or plugged, but needles are a big no no. Many years ago, I got a phone call from a friend, who just bought the contents of a CD safe, stolen from a pharmacy. One of his friends had I've one 10 mg tablet and passed out (not just nodding) after IVing it There is an extreme warning saying dextromoramide should never be administered by injection as it causes a potentially fatal drop in blood pressure (I informed my friend that he had to get his friend flat on his back, with legs raised, to ensure adequate blood flow to brain and also give him an injection of amphetamine to stimulate blood pressure and the breathing centre. Got a phone call an hour later an hour later saying his friend was OK and conscious. I told him to tell his mate he was a stupid bastard and to read warnings/contraindications before injecting a new drug. Also told him he owed me a couple of Palfium and a handful of dexedrine!). I should charge for the medical consult, but I'm not a doctor, nor do I believe in medicine for profit.
These days, Palfium/dextromoramide has been removed from British pharmacies and I believe is only now licenced for hospital use, for treating breakthrough pain, in terminal conditions. Scandinavian countries may still use it outside of hospitals (like another goodie, ketobemidone), but I'm not aware of any other countries licencing dextromoramide.

 

[fuckabout89]

What opiates (besides heroin) have been proven in human studies (preferrably more than once) to be more desirable than morphine? An old Merck Index said desomorphine was more addictive than morphine. What about oxymorphone, dipipanone, 3-methylfentanyl and alpha-methylfentanyl? Any others?

There's no study that can prove subjective effects.

 

[4DQSAR]

There's no study that can prove subjective effects.

Obviously.

We can only use the vast fund of personal experiences going back for the last century. People who are in the position of comparing morphine, diamorphine, oxycodone and oxymorphone for example who stated a preference.

I suggest the street price is not a terrible guide to how desirable an opioid is.

But as I previously noted, when a compound demonstrates multiple activities, if one is that of an opioid, do we class it with opioids?

 

[fuckabout89]

Obviously.

We can only use the vast fund of personal experiences going back for the last century. People who are in the position of comparing morphine, diamorphine, oxycodone and oxymorphone for example who stated a preference.

I suggest the street price is not a terrible guide to how desirable an opioid is.

But as I previously noted, when a compound demonstrates multiple activities, if one is that of an opioid, do we class it with opioids?

I dont know is it really? I dont think people are too crazy about the current opioid on the street who used herion in the past its just all thats available. Other than that I agree with the rest you said.

 

[4DQSAR]

@fastandbulbous - read 'Bezitramide (R 4845), a New Potent and Orally Long-Acting Analgesic Compound'

For analgesia at least SC dextromoramide is x15 more potent than SC morphine. IV I couldn't say.

So two 'peach Palfiums' is like whacking up 300mg of morphine... a LEAST.

 

[sh1vambuDancer]

I'd say oxycodone.
morphine is nice, I'd love to try a speedball, or just mix oromorph or oxycodone with pure cocaine. I'd never iv nothing. IM maybe,
but
i found oxycodone very nice; and wish I'd had more when they were around; I'll def be synthesizing some when i have enough access to poppies.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

None?
I read a study where ex-opioid addicts [and I MAY be getting some details wrong because this sounds super unethical, but definitely the results are correct] and they were given free choice to take any opioid they wanted. Whether they tried out several or not, almost all of them settled on (had preference for) either Morphine or DIamorphine (Heroin), regardless of what they had been addicted to prior (whether Oxy or Fent or Dilaudid).
I think the researchers concluded something about Morphine and Heroin lighting up the pleasure centers, releasing dopamine etc faster than any of the others (Heroin being very slightly faster than Morphine.

I do also really like Hydromorphine/Dilaudid, though, but rarely get a chance as it just isn't a thing in my country.

 

[Dextro .45]

Oxycodone #1 in Euphoric pleasure
Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) & Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) #2 in Euphoria

Literally hundreds of analogs of Morphine ….Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) is King, however there are analogs of Heroin which are longer lasting and more potent

Methadone - longest acting full mu-opioid agonist ..used a lot as a potent analgesic is pain management

Demerol (opioid & DAT/NET reuptake inhibitor -stimulant & opioid)

Oral Oxycodone HCL is the most Euphoric & Pleasurable….while still a potent analgesic with no dose ceiling …..160mg of IR Oxycodone even, or higher, will obliterate any pain (as per tolerance)

 

[4DQSAR]

Oral Oxycodone HCL is the most Euphoric & Pleasurable….while still a potent analgesic with no dose ceiling …..160mg of IR Oxycodone even, or higher, will obliterate any pain (as per tolerance)

I think I can see why Perdue made the mistake of choosing oxycodone and so Oxycontin. THEY knew oxycodone is more active orally due to 10% of the dose is O-demethylated to oxymorphone.

Of course they failed to grasp that most users don't really go into such details...

It's just my opinion but it does have a ceiling in terms of analgesia. More than 80mg/day and it just 'zones out' patients. But I'm quite happy to accept the usual caveat that YMMV.

 

[tryptakid]

None?
I read a study where ex-opioid addicts [and I MAY be getting some details wrong because this sounds super unethical, but definitely the results are correct] and they were given free choice to take any opioid they wanted. Whether they tried out several or not, almost all of them settled on (had preference for) either Morphine or DIamorphine (Heroin), regardless of what they had been addicted to prior (whether Oxy or Fent or Dilaudid).
I think the researchers concluded something about Morphine and Heroin lighting up the pleasure centers, releasing dopamine etc faster than any of the others (Heroin being very slightly faster than Morphine.

I do also really like Hydromorphine/Dilaudid, though, but rarely get a chance as it just isn't a thing in my country.

It is widely available on the onions fwiw

 

[4DQSAR]

I just re-read the title of the thread and I suppose for me, whatever controls the pain sufficiently without messing up my mind is the most desirable.