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Ethnobotanicals What life lessons have you gained from Salvia?

Zopiclone bandit

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Having a chat with a good mate who's had limited experience tripping, his only ever done 4-HO-MET in a dose range of 40mg-60mg 4 times and that's it.

For someone who had never taken anything before he took to it very well and gained that classic "wisdom / insight" people gain from that experience. His been asking about Salvia so much the last few months especially after me telling him about some of the life changing experiences I have got from it.

I know salvia can be an experience of what most would call insanity and "Datura-esque" but also can give wisdom which is hard to pin down like Acid or Mescaline, anyone care to share an insight you have got from smoking "Sally D" that i can show him.

His very interested since I told him how it hits harder than 5-MeO-DMT and just like what he felt off a high dose of MET a strong Salvia experience can't be put into simple words to express it.
 
it hits harder than 5-MeO-DMT
Most may agree that it's way weirder, but I don't think "harder" is a fair description.
This could especially be problematic the other way around, if someone who had previously tried salvia went into 5-MeO-DMT without knowing enough about it because they thought they didn't have to worry, as they'd been told it was "softer" than salvia. They'd be in for a surprise with how utterly intense it is.
 
I like salvia but dont know if i learned much from the few trips i had. I remember i thought i was rock climbing up the wall lol
 
Yes, for me Salvia Divinorum is one of the most mystical experiences a human can have. I do think it depends how you approach it, and despite its overwhelming force I think it is still affected by setting somewhat; I have had different Salvia experiences depending on where I've been, who I've been with, and how I approached it. It is so powerful that it can easily blast you past those aspects of preparation especially at higher doses or with good extracts, but I still think it's wise to prepare yourself properly. Personal recommendation: set up in a nice warm, comfortable environment with dim illumination, and preferably some gentle comforting music to guide the trip. Make sure you have somewhere safe to put the salvia pipe down after inhaling because it can start to overtake you before you've even exhaled.

It is utterly different from conventional serotonergic psychedelics, as you will know having tried it yourself. 4-HO-MET will not prepare your friend for a Salvia experience in itself, although it might prepare him in the sense of being used to a profound shift in consciousness and perception. Side note: 40-60 mg of 4-HO-MET is a megadose, and very overwhelming for most people. I'm sceptical of it, unless his product was cut or he was also on a medication which dampens the effects of psychedelics, or had significant tolerance.

In terms of insights, I suppose the greatest insight I took from my earliest Salvia trips was that the fabric of reality itself is totally different to what we think usually it is, and in a very real, obvious way, not just "I'm trippin balllss maaan!!" sensory distortions. A visceral and palpable - i.e., not merely intellectual or philosophical - understanding, feeling and awareness of very tangible new depths to the fabric of existence and the spacetime manifold itself. And a slippage toward forgetting that the old perception of reality even existed. For example, on my very first trip, which was a strong one, I felt the notorious "salvia gravity" and physically felt myself being pushed sideways by an unseen force. My perception of time stretched out almost to an infinity, and I observed the restlessly changing eigenstates of vibrational modes constituting the unfoldment of events on a sheet of causality that spread out conformally in all directions out to an imperceptibly distant horizon. This sheet expanded to encompass a 3D manifold of time, meaning the standard Cartesian co-ordinate system mapped to directions in time as well as they did in space.

I was only able to track my progress on this sheet due to the steady beat of the gentle music which was playing on the speakers; during the peak I still retained a distant memory of music with a tempo acting as a clock, so I retained the perception of temporal progress. However, as the sheet widened in front of me and around me, I apparently underwent a rapid four-acceleration orthogonal to any normal spatial acceleration in real life; I started experiencing a relativistic Lorentz transformation where I witnessed spatial length contraction and time dilation and widening, to the point that normal "forward" progress in time slowed to a grinding crawl and my progress sideways began to accelerate. Given that gravitational attraction toward a mass is modelled in general relativity as constant motion along an axis of time in curved space, it later occurred to me that "salvia gravity" could be caused by veering off into sideways time, but this was just a playful mental indulgence rather than a serious realization.

The real insight came in that I discovered I could direct myself along whichever path I wanted on this sheet, even though I was far from lucid enough to make any rational decisions. I wasn't bound by a deterministic machine, pushed forward on a single arrow of time by the relentless march of a deterministic clockwork universe. The spacetime path I chose was mine to choose. It destroyed the notion of a block universe of rigid determinism and helplessness, and made me see everything as collective choice and malleable causality. There were simultaneous possibilities next to me on the left and the right, which all looked similar, because the vibrational modes of causality radiated in all 4π steradians but were different on different timelines. Additionally, I had very long horizon of foresight to be able to predict future events based on my estimated current temporal trajectory, and visually being able to see all the interacting timelines to the left and the right. That prediction manifested itself as a visual structure of the eigenstates of the sheet's modes perturbed by the combined wilful choices of other beings and the random classical/probabilistic quantum interactions.

What's more was that if I turned, for example, 90 degrees to the left in time and pursued a different timeline from the 'autopilot' forward one, the structure of shifting eigenstates remained contiguous and made sense, and I could continue on that way and everything would unfold naturally, although my reality would be a different one from that if I had chosen to remain on the previous course. It was basically like a vibrational landscape which looked perfectly right in any direction, and so a conscious being moving orthogonally (sideways) in time relative to us would experience a perfectly normal unfolding of events, even though they would barely zip in and out of our personal light-cones in the space of plank time.

There was a great deal of forward momentum, so it took energy input to turn, in the same way it takes an immense amount of energy to accelerate a particle to near the speed of light, even though from the perspective of the particle it is able to travel across the other side of the universe within a short period of its proper time.

Anyway, it was initially extremely unnerving and felt like I'd been shot out of a space cannon into the outer solar system, a bit like the feeling of loss of control I felt when I first rode "space mountain" at Disneyland as a youngster, but way more intense and confusing. I felt like I had left my former life behind and didn't know how or when I would be able to return, because the time dilation was so extreme; for a few moments in the trip it felt like I had been pulled thousands or millions of years into the "future", even though the word "future" loses all meaning in that space.

As I regained connection with my normal life, which seemed like a very tentative prospect at the peak, I became acutely aware of a great conscious connection to plants. When people talk of the "Salvia spirit" or the "Salvia Goddess" it isn't just hyperbole. Salvia really does feel like a feminine presence breathing itself into you, and safely ushering you, momentarily, up to a summit where you can so fleetingly comprehend the outrageously incomprehensible planes of existence; yet all the while Salvia's spirit seems so earthly, tethering you to something familiar. The abrupt and forceful realization of an astral plane on Earth when you take Salvia, without you having to leave the planet, brings a perception of the world as a garden of Eden or a kind of organic living temple existing in higher consciousness, and even during the peak you are faintly aware of the ground. After my initiating experience, I felt like I'd been wrapped up in Salvia's arms and gently, and very lovingly, shown this incredible vantage point of the universe. And as my first psychedelic trip this completely changed my life for the better.

By the way, I'm not all masquerading that anything I said about physics and relativity is scientifically correct in my description of it; I'm obviously not a physicist and don't pretend to have some grand theory of everything. I don't understand time or space at all, regardless of the hundreds of psychedelic trips. But I also know what I experienced, on multiple occasions, and you can't take those experiences away from me. Scientific theories are just useful models. But experiences are experiences, and they are personal. Make of them what you will.

On smoking Salvia: Much is made of the whole "disrespect" made to the plant by smoking it, and that it should be imbibed orally in quid form to respect the elders etc. I disagree. I feel that smoking Salvia is a totally legitimate and correct way to experience her because you're literally breathing her in. The word "spirit" literally originates from the Latin word "spiritus" which means "breath", "air", or "wind", similarly to the Greek "pneuma". Historically it's defined as the animating force or vital principle in living beings. Nothing feels as real as smoking Salvia, it just feels right.
 
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the strobing fabric of my mind - and the trails of each kind of sense impression - and the way things merge naturally - became the most important aspect to dwell on
 
Salvia is fundamentally neutral, DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are inherently quite upbeat in my personal experiences using and administering these drugs, salvia for 12 years and DMT for 5. I've cultivated, extracted, and semisynthetically worked with them to try to develop clandestinely approachable quantitative measurement techniques (only got DMT to work tolerably with that one, salvinorin A's too scarce), and I can tell you with full confidence that both of these drugs, regardless of what anybody tells you, will land in very unique ways on each individual person, but neither generate tolerance so start low and climb steadily, with a sober tripsitter on site to look over things and catch the pipe shall somebody break through.
 
Salvia is fundamentally neutral
This is the #1 point that I try to get across to people when they ask me what Salvia is like. It's also a damn near impossible point to get across to someone who has never met her.


What Salvia has taught me is that when a substance show's a type of identity or personality, that it is best to respect that identity/personality. Those who don't seem to show respect seem to be those who pay the harshest price
 
The caveat I'd add to the above is that for new users I don't think they'll understand what you mean by "respect", a word which in this context I find to be just a vague imperative detached and floating from the practical advice it's trying to encode. Different people will interpret the word respect differently; for a lot of people that will mean fear and trepidation, which is functionally a recipe for a bad trip, especially if they're already anxious. If it's meant to instil a sense of reverence, anyone new to Salvia with no frame of reference for the headspace will have no conception of a Salvia spirit, and so there's nothing to revere until they've had a taste of what the experience is.

The most practical and useful advice for anyone taking any powerful psychedelic without experience is to approach with curiosity and openness, but also with preparation and appropriate intent, ensuring a good safe setting, and a trusted sitter if necessary, paying attention to correct dosing. I don't find the warnings of "paying the harshest price" for not respecting the plant to be of much use to anyone going into a psychedelic experience, because it primes people with the cynical and dramatic notion that the purpose of tripping is about trying to evade some biblical idea of punishment and hell by praying to the molecule, which is silly and misses the point of the experience entirely, and just adds a layer of shame on top of the already-intense emotional content of any difficult trip. The experience isn't about the plant drug (which doesn't care whether you respect it or not); the plant drug is the vehicle to get to the destination; the destination is the consciousness shift. If someone has a scary experience after preparing properly as described above (quite common for new trippers), it isn't because they did something wrong or disrespected a drug, it's just because they surfaced some anxiety or other emotion which wasn't apparent before. That's a good thing, because now they know more about themselves, and will gradually learn how to better keep their composure as they become more well-travelled.

I would say the best reframe for someone having a difficult time is just: "this is information about yourself, it will pass, you're safe." That's why having a calm, well-intentioned sitter for inexperienced users can be very valuable, because having an adult in the room who just says "this is normal, it's passing" is one of the most effective anxiety-reduction tools available for vulnerable trippers.
 
I've left this post to get a few replies and I'm on a old phone ATM having to type with my thumbs.
I read all the posts in reply and will tomorrow reply to everyone with my view(s) to what they said and to me salvia is the most potent thing I've ever done and taught me things way beyond what I've learned from smoking 5-meo and N,N.

I just want to say to the person who seemed to suggest my dose of MET isn't true I am being honest. With any proper RC from TIHKAL and PIHKAL I made sure the mg dose was 100% correct as it may cost you your life if you make a mistake.

I've always taken high doses of all types of drugs, the member of BL can say my MET was cut badly, in reply all I can say is my vendor was very well known in Europe for their high quality and was one of a very small few EU vendors who stocked 2C-E as an example alongside DPT also, they had such a big customer base and review as what they sold was so well known on The EU RC market, anyone in The EU who was a fan of very fine quality MDPV will know the vendor I was using ket me say that much.
They were the only EU vendor that stocked 3C-E also and I hope someone else will say how the vendor took actual pride in the quality of their items, it was also VITAL to them their items were safe alongside having good prices.

as to those who said how potent 5-meo is I agree in part BUT this says it all. I've spoken to one of these Sadhu monks as I know him well, he said the Sapo was powerful but he had lived directly more potent experiences from long meditation sessions which I can agree with, Kundalini yoga has literally thrown me into the air before which smoking 99.8% pure 5-meo is still yet to do.

 
1. That there exists a realm within, throughout, and around our reality.

I would get all kinds of impressions from my salvia trips... first one was like I walked into my own surprise reunion party hosted by invisible salvia beings, and telepathically I understood messages from them that were like "He's here!!! Finally you did it, we were waiting!" and emphatic greetings of different kinds. The way I can put it is that 5-10% of my consciousness/soul had been projected from my body and the structure of my brain into somewhere else, almost like that 5-10% of my consciousness/soul was in outer space communing with old friends from a time before the "me" that exists in my own ego, the me of this life. Very much a mutual feeling between me and the beings, I was so excited to be around them again and it felt completely natural to me and like I was genuinely in the state of a person reuniting with dear friends or family that they haven't seen in ages. That trip left a really positive impression on me, I felt happy that this had happened and it felt sort of healing in a way. I was at a time in my life where I didn't really have anyone in my life and while I wouldn't know how to describe it, the experience did do something good for my sense of self and my outlook for myself socially in the future.

2. In this realm there are systems, you and everyone are completely and unequivocally equal, and to be a functioning part of the system and to reach the feeling of security in basic purpose within yourself in this realm's system, all you need to do is just be.

I would find myself suddenly aware of a multidimensional grid structure that I'm halfway between some of the bars of, and I could just quickly adjust myself in real life to "fit" into this perceived system or structure or whatever it would be. It would give me such a simple feeling of satisfaction, like I'm "doing what I'm supposed to do" -- for context I'm a very anxious sort of medium-low functioning person that often is not doing what i could be doing to succeed and I stress myself out about it and where i'm at day-to-day and in life. So that feeling of just being part of the system, where everything can be simplified down to the parts being equal to each other in importance, each having individual agency to choose to act as a piece of the structure, and then the collective sense of purpose that every single part gets from the simple act of "being" with the right intention, towards being part of a greater whole. This is a very general archetype / plot I get with salvia trips, it can manifest in a variety of ways with the other different visual archetypes (like seeing circular slices of your vision and passing through the barriers between each slice to find a "spot", or being teleported somewhere else where the alien buddies want you to hang out at the non-linear timeline reunion party, or finding yourself in the scene of a walled town and being a brick in the wall serving as protection for the family units of happy tiny wooden elves in a tiny town before you)

The fact that every time I smoke salvia, it produces such a similar sort of spatial effect and understanding of what is happening to me, it makes me really think that it is literally "taking" me to a "place". Though it's more like it's awakening some 6th sense for a higher spatial dimension that allows me to see, for lack of a better term, the 4th dimension.

I kind of feel like it makes sense in a way too because if 3d is basically infinite 2d slices arranged together, then 4d would be infinite 3d slices arranged together... sound familiar??
 
And speaking of respecting the plant and approach and whatnot, I have gotten by smoking salvia a bunch of times without any negative experiences because I've always been very mindful about when I choose to smoke it, and I will always try to "listen" to what it has to "say" to me. I had that as my little mantra going into my very first time smoking it, and it was totally pleasant and almost like the experience was "waiting for me" in a sense, we were both happy to experience the intersection of myself and that spacetime or whatever. Just be a great listener and be psychically presentable if possible! :D
 
The fact that every time I smoke salvia, it produces such a similar sort of spatial effect and understanding of what is happening to me, it makes me really think that it is literally "taking" me to a "place". Though it's more like it's awakening some 6th sense for a higher spatial dimension that allows me to see, for lack of a better term, the 4th dimension.

I kind of feel like it makes sense in a way too because if 3d is basically infinite 2d slices arranged together, then 4d would be infinite 3d slices arranged together... sound familiar??
It is similar and familiar to me too, and it always starts with a greeting and a feeling that Salvia is happy to see me. They come out and say hello. I get the impression of a mother and littler beings. .And it is 2D, into 3D into something like anti dimensions. Like the opposite of DMT. (I am just babbling). I am just glad to see Salvia being talked about again. The big and dandy thread is interesting. I have always said Salvia seems more like science fiction than a drug. Even being so bizarre it also has a familiarity.

The caveat I'd add to the above is that for new users I don't think they'll understand what you mean by "respect", a word which in this context I find to be just a vague imperative detached and floating from the practical advice it's trying to encode. Different people will interpret the word respect differently; for a lot of people that will mean fear and trepidation, which is functionally a recipe for a bad trip, especially if they're already anxious. If it's meant to instil a sense of reverence, anyone new to Salvia with no frame of reference for the headspace will have no conception of a Salvia spirit, and so there's nothing to revere until they've had a taste of what the experience is.
Respect is way more than fear. And for sure a person should go into these things aligned and confident, with a small amount of fear. But not even fear. Reverence. (btw good to see you SA) Once Salvia is respected it does treat me differently. I never had a trip sitter, Salvia makes sure I stay put because of respect. My first time I heard her whisper shhhh sit down as I was about to get up and never ever got up again in future trips. Gravity keeps me on the couch. That is just me though, I never had a trip sitter for anything.

as to those who said how potent 5-meo is I agree in part BUT this says it all. I've spoken to one of these Sadhu monks as I know him well, he said the Sapo was powerful but he had lived directly more potent experiences from long meditation sessions which I can agree with, Kundalini yoga has literally thrown me into the air before which smoking 99.8% pure 5-meo is still yet to do.
I go back and forth with that, Is Kundalini really more powerful? I feel like I don't have the patience to try it and wait. I think at times we all raise that energy. I love the discussions on meditation and psychedelics. Or meditation verses psychedelics. I have gone with some basic breathing exercises but never too far. So I never dove deep but I have dove.

Salvia to me uses gravity to take us out of the our surroundings. It twists and turns in such an interesting and healing way. Salvia is toally underrated.
 
having had 5meO-DMT after nn-DMT and thousands of salvia experiences which I have enjoyed a great deal.
5meO-DMTis the roughest to me since it is the most dissociative, NN-DMT provides the most eye-candiesque spaces, and salvia seems interdimensional or at least severely time phlanged.
 
Don't fuck with Sally, she's waiting for you to die, then your her thing..
 
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