Kratom, Kpin - Detox Help, Coming Up Short, Acquisition

[vdjill]

Hey all.

I am 10 days off of a 5 year kratom, and for a time 7-OH addiction. It's been good, but I needed to be put on klonopin for the detox to adequately cope with the synptoms. I had taken it before for years, but it had been a while. The symptoms are still too much to deal with, and I can't go back to the anxiety I was harboring and suppressing with the kratom, not yet.

Due to confusion over med math with my psych, and a failure to advocate adequately for an increased dose, as it is predictable for me from before, I am set to come up short on my prescription. By 4 days, from a dose that was already insufficient.

In the past, I have used DNMs and vouched-for connects, but it's been a long time, and I am having trouble with sourcing and acquisition. Idk if it is something that is allowed on this site or that anyone could be comfortable with, but essentially I am hoping that somebody can provide me advice on guidance on safely finding a 'provider' that is local, on short notice too.

I fear that if I truly do find myself SOL, I will resume 7-OH use, and set the clock back. I don't wanna go through life without feeling anything anymore, but I also don't want to feel the dread and overwhelming dysphoria that I wake up with every day before taking my doses of kpin.

 

[paranoid android]

Hey all.

I am 10 days off of a 5 year kratom, and for a time 7-OH addiction. It's been good, but I needed to be put on klonopin for the detox to adequately cope with the synptoms. I had taken it before for years, but it had been a while. The symptoms are still too much to deal with, and I can't go back to the anxiety I was harboring and suppressing with the kratom, not yet.

Due to confusion over med math with my psych, and a failure to advocate adequately for an increased dose, as it is predictable for me from before, I am set to come up short on my prescription. By 4 days, from a dose that was already insufficient.

In the past, I have used DNMs and vouched-for connects, but it's been a long time, and I am having trouble with sourcing and acquisition. Idk if it is something that is allowed on this site or that anyone could be comfortable with, but essentially I am hoping that somebody can provide me advice on guidance on safely finding a 'provider' that is local, on short notice too.

I fear that if I truly do find myself SOL, I will resume 7-OH use, and set the clock back. I don't wanna go through life without feeling anything anymore, but I also don't want to feel the dread and overwhelming dysphoria that I wake up with every day before taking my doses of kpin.

Sourcing is absolutely not allowed on this site i am sorry

I take klonopin as well as bromazepam for anxiety. I used to be heavily dependent on them until i came off 6mg's a day of klonopin in the psych ward because the shrink i had ih there was a sadistic cunt. I take beaks now.However just because i didnt die doesent mean you should cold turkey either. That was fucking brutal

Whats your dose of k pins? Ive stretched mine before. K pins have a half life of 48 hours so you really wont get wd's until then. However dont push it as the wd's can hit rather suddenly. I dont actually remember what wd's where like for me due to various reasons.

 

[vdjill]

Sourcing is absolutely not allowed on this site i am sorry

I take klonopin as well as bromazepam for anxiety. I used to be heavily dependent on them until i came off 6mg's a day of klonopin in the psych ward because the shrink i had ih there was a sadistic cunt. I take beaks now.However just because i didnt die doesent mean you should cold turkey either. That was fucking brutal

Whats your dose of k pins? Ive stretched mine before. K pins have a half life of 48 hours so you really wont get wd's until then. However dont push it as the wd's can hit rather suddenly. I dont actually remember what wd's where like for me due to various reasons.

Hey thanks, I didn't see that. My issue right now isn't with the klonopin WD, I didn't run into that, but I was wondering if you could help me out with the kratom detox and questions related to that. Nice pfp o7

 

[Bleaney]

I don't know if this is any help, but personally I find it much easier to get off kratom using a long and gradual taper, using kratom leaf powder. It really does break down the physical and psychological challenges into much more manageable steps, or chunks. It's still not easy, but much easier than cold turkey ime/imo.

If you've just done 10 days of cold turkey, you'll already be over the worst of the physical withdrawals, so in that sense you're probably best staying off it, if that's what you've done, and already been through.

Unfortunately though it is very common to get a period of psychological symptoms, due to PAWS, after the acute physical effects. This can last days, a few weeks, or longer, depending on the alkaloid strength of the kratom, your own unique bio-chemistry, the duration of your habit, and the doses you were taking, and how often.

I think many people who haven't taken kratom long term, or been through the withdrawals, underestimate how challenging they can be. Sure, relative to the harder opiates, or something like methadone, it's definitely not going to be anywhere near as bad physically. But I'm not sure how the PAWS aspect compares. It's probably less severe for kratom than it is for stronger, full opiate agonists. That's not to say that kratom PAWS is nothing though. It really isn't.

 

[vdjill]

Sup Bleaney,

I appreciate your reply. I am happy to report that I am actually 5 weeks of 7-OH, and coming up on 3 off kratom at all.

I have gotten off 7-OH alone before but it never stuck. Wasn't too bad either, but one time it was assisted with K. Had a full blown kratom WD in 2022 that was brutal, also used K for the worst of it.

This time was mostly MIT extracts, and I had fluctuated doses in recent months but still had a strong dependence. I had some real scary experiences with benzos as a teenager, but seemingly learned my lesson and was previously on it maybe 3 years to manage anxiety. Only 1mg and 2mg a day at max iirc, I didn't even need to be titrated I just gradually stopped filling it.

I was hoping it would be the same this time. I had tried unsuccessfully already a few times last month, and my therapist recommended in lieu of detox facility (cause let's be real, kratom does not require inpatient detox), my doc prescribe other drugs that might help with the WD from the MIT.

Started with .25mg xan 2x day but it didn't touch it until I took half the script and so I just went back to using until my follow up. Got .5milly clonazepam 2x day, but this time the psychological and emotional symptoms were so severe that I was not at all prepared for it. I had also gotten off vraylar for bipolar (marketed for manias and psychosis which was never an issue for me without drugs) recently.

I was harboring so much sadness and a dam just burst. I also suffer from ptsd and various anxieties and the kratom was barely keeping it at bay but I just found myself beside myself at all times every day, and so I kept taking the prescribed benzos until I felt definitive relief from symptoms.

That dose was usually 3 milly, and so I got my doc to hesitantly up me to that, given my history of responsible use. I am really trying to stick to it.

The other week, I found a bottle of 200 or so .5mg alprazolam footballs, and they weren't mine, but had long been untouched so I took as much as I could reasonably get away with. I later came clean about it and they are my support so we resolved to dispose of all the xan and let it be water under the bridge, but I was coming up short on my kpin that week which at the time was either 1.5 or 2 a day, so I kept enough to make up for it, and a small handful for 'a rainy day.'

I used the ones I alotted, but I also used all of the spares in roughly the same amount of time.

I told my doc about the experience with WD and outpouring of sorrow and constant worry and worry leading to depressive mood, and he said I was just depressed but that he would raise the klonopin because it does help me.

it's like it helps with depression symptoms because it makes you not care at all at a certain point, or because it can change your frame of reference without the persistent filter of fear and anxiety.

it's not worth chasing this because it just makes it worse sometimes, and makes you say dumb shit or even blackout, but I haven't been at risk of that.

currently sitting at 3 millies a day, and really trying to stick to it. originally, thinking it would help me reduce my intake, I filled my pill container with one for each evening and morning for the fill and kept the 3 as spares to use as PRNs, but that led me to just take them more, so I split the 1mg between morning and evening, but then realized maybe trying to start the day with less is better, and makes me think before using another. Right now, I have enough, albeit a tad short but 3 a day is a bit much if I am being real, I have only been prescribed it 5 weeks after not being on it for years. my hope is that i can keep using it because the anxiety is going to take a long time to be at peace with and that I will just naturally taper.

psychiatry is such a clusterfuck of a discipline, they should just trust patients.

another therapeutic and harm reduction goal goal I set with my analyst that was part of an ultimatum to myself and my support to not go inpatient treatment (I disagree with each and every aspect of it in this country, I could go on and on, and if there is a board to shit on 12 step and scam rehabs in the U$A please let me know), was that I was not allowed to drink at all with the klonopin. I had been drinking more before the detox and benzo involvement, and so I would pick up a single of vodka sometimes even if I had a couple millys in me. when SWIM was still basically a child, SWIM took 10mg of etizolam and drank a 1/2 fifth of rye, and had to be intubated. SWIM was not trying to repeat, that.

alcohol has been a persistent danger for SWIM. it took years to wrestle it down, but SWIM was to a point where they could drink socially every now and then, after a period of total sobriety, but then back to daily beer or more, and yeah. it's much easier to put it down these days, cause I hate the shit and I think it's a garbage drug, and I don't like the way it makes me feel or the things I say on it and how I come off, so it's easy enough.

No alcohol, no kratom for 3 weeks now. tentatively, klonopin dependence and lessening/breaking it is a goal that will be tackled later.

 

[N0ph0n0]

No alcohol, no kratom for 3 weeks now. tentatively, klonopin dependence and lessening/breaking it is a goal that will be tackled later.

Never had to deal with quitting a hard to quit drug like opiates/benzos but i feel like since you are 3 weeks off booze/kratom maybe now should be the moment you start tapering off the pins before it gets just as bad as the kratom was. Idk how to you with that since you are allredy off booze but i guess switching to a mild stimulant addiction like getting on addys or ritalin might help with powering through the depression/anxiety by hyperfocusing on some crap, also take some clonidine and benadryl to deal with the insomnia.

 

[vdjill]

Never had to deal with quitting a hard to quit drug like opiates/benzos but i feel like since you are 3 weeks off booze/kratom maybe now should be the moment you start tapering off the pins before it gets just as bad as the kratom was. Idk how to you with that since you are allredy off booze but i guess switching to a mild stimulant addiction like getting on addys or ritalin might help with powering through the depression/anxiety by hyperfocusing on some crap, also take some clonidine and benadryl to deal with the insomnia.

Hey,

Thanks for your reply. It's funny you say that, because I am also prescribed 70mg vyvanse a day split 50/20. Gabapentin as well but I end up with extra bottles all of the time. My regimen before was benzos and vyvanse and it worked, but it feels like my issues were superficial back then, and now I am perhaps at greater risk. you might be right.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Yes, I second @Bleaney in this. It sounds like the idea of stopping abruptly could be too much for you at this point. I will write more here when I have more time. I will say, I know it's a very unpopular opinion among the general population, but it's my opinion: sometimes people need to use Buprenorphine to get off of the Kratom/7-OH. It has nothing to do with relative potency really. What you need is a reliable, legitimate means of slowly lowering your Opioid intake. The potency of these Kratom products is dubious at best. They are practically unregulated, so even when you think you're consuming the same dosage unit each time, you really don't know.

Starting with a low dose of Buprenorphine gives you a clean, licit way of managing this problem. Not to mention, it is much cheaper than paying for these extracts. People waste way too much time worried about "being on Buprenorphine" when they refuse to admit that their life is already utter chaos and that Buprenorphine would actually be a major step in the direction of stability.

If you want my advice, you start this over again. We can use volumetric dosing to make your Buprenorphine reduction as slow as humanly possible. We can make drops so small they should be practically imperceptible. I do not want to be pessimistic. I've now been talking to people with Kratom issues for almost a decade. I have seen way more people succeed who make the radical decision to seek real help.

Kratom is a merry-go-round. It is always available just down the street if you want it and have the money. By taking Buprenorphine, you will be able to both mitigate the horrible symptoms of withdrawal, while simultaneously removing much of the temptation to break and resume taking Kratom. If you want advice for how to go about this, let me know.

 

[N0ph0n0]

Yes, I second @Bleaney in this. It sounds like the idea of stopping abruptly could be too much for you at this point. I will write more here when I have more time. I will say, I know it's a very unpopular opinion among the general population, but it's my opinion: sometimes people need to use Buprenorphine to get off of the Kratom/7-OH. It has nothing to do with relative potency really. What you need is a reliable, legitimate means of slowly lowering your Opioid intake. The potency of these Kratom products is dubious at best. They are practically unregulated, so even when you think you're consuming the same dosage unit each time, you really don't know.

Starting with a low dose of Buprenorphine gives you a clean, licit way of managing this problem. Not to mention, it is much cheaper than paying for these extracts. People waste way too much time worried about "being on Buprenorphine" when they refuse to admit that their life is already utter chaos and that Buprenorphine would actually be a major step in the direction of stability.

If you want my advice, you start this over again. We can use volumetric dosing to make your Buprenorphine reduction as slow as humanly possible. We can make drops so small they should be practically imperceptible. I do not want to be pessimistic. I've now been talking to people with Kratom issues for almost a decade. I have seen way more people succeed who make the radical decision to seek real help.

Kratom is a merry-go-round. It is always available just down the street if you want it and have the money. By taking Buprenorphine, you will be able to both mitigate the horrible symptoms of withdrawal, while simultaneously removing much of the temptation to break and resume taking Kratom. If you want advice for how to go about this, let me know.

Hes 3 weeks off kratom bupe would just be a step backward.