The most beautiful visuals you had in your life

[dubdubbawobwob]

The most beautiful visuals I can remember having was with 75mg DPT and 225mg ketamine snorted together with little to no dissociative tolerance. I navigated through other colorful advanced worlds only It was like I was seeing it through a camera because I was big and distant yet there almost like a god. When my eyes were open I'd see everything as what I could only think of as unprocessed visual input because I was my brain processing everything for the rest of my body "seeing" the sensory input move through my nerves and feel them enter my brain.


The first time I took DPT I snorted 75mg and I remember coming out of the breakthrough nearly in tears because I knew I'd just seen the most beautiful thing in the world but I couldn't remember what it was other than a magnificent world of color. The awe left me with a brilliant afterglow for days. I came out of DPT "hyperspace" in a state of inner peace and what I can only describe as pure bliss.

 

[AlyDrops]

Ismene, how much of the harmala alkaloids have you had? Caapi is amazingly visionary, rue to me feels a little less so but also a little more like the classical psychedelics than caapi. You know the name Ayahuasca, "vine of the souls", actually refers to caapi right? It's the teacher, the leader of the experience. DMT is the visual aspect that the teacher uses to portray its visions. I'm not saying DMT isn't an amazing drug but it's not the main part of Ayahuasca, you can't call something Ayahuasca if it doesn't have caapi in it.

 

[polidelaiko]

Not the most beautiful nor the most intense, but Sunday night I saw thte last episode of True Blood after taking a large amount of 2C-C. I watched it on my proyector, 100´ on the wall. Eric And Bill had this horrible faces while sucking Sookie. Sookie had this lines and circles in her face. Jesus was full of steam around him.. And Jessica, oh Jessica!
2C-C definetly has the best visuals to watch movies without being too fucked up.

 

[TheAzo]

Have not tried DMT yet. Have a bit sitting around, just never got up the courage to smoke it.

My most beautiful visuals would be the CEVs from LSD + a touch of weed, beautiful fractal patterns. Nothing else seems to create such vivid CEV's, at least for me.
Strongest, would be 4-HO-MET+2C-B, but that wasn't beautiful in the way that LSD visuals are.

 

[dubdubbawobwob]

I get where you're coming from. Oral DMT is something very, very special.

The harmala alkaloids by themself make most psychedelics look like crap at trip doses

I've always found harmala alkaloids to be absolute shit. I don't get any psychedelic effect from them. Just nausea and a splitting headache.

Honestly I think they're the important part, DMT is like an additive.

Can't agree with this Alydrops. DMT is by far the most important and psychedelic part of ayahuasca. I take it with moclobemide which has no psychedelic effects by itself and the DMT is beyond words. It's the ultimate psychedelic.

If you're taking it with moclobemide it isn't ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is primarily the caapi vine. Whether DMT is in the brew depends on the shaman. Headaches and nausea from harmala alkaloids could be the result of improper dieting before consumption.

There really isn't a point in just taking other people's opinions and saying they are wrong because you don't agree with them. Everyone reacts differently to things. Not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying I've noticed this in your posts and it'd be nice if you were a little more objective/ less attacking when you disagree with people's opinions. It would give your posts a much more positive tone

 

[ambiguity]

Ismene, I completely agree with you.
The MAOI's have little or nothing to do with the experience. I have used moclobemide, syrian rue and caapi...
and although i do give some credit to what 'dubdubbawobwob' is saying about caapi being a loving substance and much different from other maoi's... I still to this day have remained with syrian rue JUST because its more convienent.
I actually prefer to use caapi on its own for the relaxing qualities it has.

I think the reason why some people might be disagreeing with me is because I forgot to leave out a crucial detail of my ayahuasca love:
I've always stuck with the syrian rue/mimosa combo which tends to create a vigorous cluster-fuck of an experience 90% of the time.
It has on certain high doses, even left me so incapicitated that I couldn't speak english for hours after the vision.
My point being..?
I actually get a lot of self-reflection and love coming OUT of a difficult experience like that (not necessarily in it though).
Other combos like caapi/psychotria (IMO) are much softer on the spirit. Don't get me wrong they are equally powerful and not to be taken lightly... I just tend to believe that mimosa is the harder 'dmt-source' to stomach, while syrian rue is nowhere near as kind (as caapi)

*At this point, I would also like to throw two thumbs-down at the idea of DMT being an "additive".
But by the same token, I'm not all that in to the whole 'shamanism' side of ayahuasca, so my opinion really has no grounds...*

Also, I think Alydrops is right too, LSD does surround you with this aura of beauty and wonder that is truly magnificent in its own right.
But I mean seriously, can anyone who's done both actually testify that lsd visuals are better or more beautiful than DMT? That would be an interesting poll.

In conclusion, what I've come to discover about MY personal taste for psychedelics and they're beauty... is this notion that where the 'true magic' lies, is in the sheer intensity.
And I will conceed... that similarly to what dub said, there are some combinations of 'ayahuasca' that are not nearly as gut-wrenching as others.
AND YES, before everyone loses they're pants, I DO REALISE ayahuasca traditionally refers to specifically only caapi/P.V, but I dont remember the name for the combo I'm using (mimosahuasca maybe?)

Anyways Im off to voyage tonight, all this talk has got worked me up. Wish me luck.

 

[Ismene]

Ismene, how much of the harmala alkaloids have you had?

Not much - the nausea and splitting headache at low doses put me off taking an even bigger dose.

You know the name Ayahuasca, "vine of the souls", actually refers to caapi right

There's some question about that. The early translators wern't very good and there's confusion whether it meant the caapi or the drink - the natives use the same word to refer to both. They also call it ayahusca when they arn't even tripping.

It's the teacher, the leader of the experience.

Have you ever seen any drawings of ayahuasca experiences? They consiste of DMT visions - not the effect of harmala.

not saying DMT isn't an amazing drug but it's not the main part of Ayahuasca

It is for me. Whether or not some native in the jungle uses the same word in his language that is another question. A lot of native tribes don't even use ayahuasca as a hallucinogenic - it's often used just to make them vomit and shit because they think it helps them get rid of worms.

you can't call something Ayahuasca if it doesn't have caapi in it.

I usually call it oral DMT.

 

[Ismene]

Headaches and nausea from harmala alkaloids could be the result of improper dieting before consumption.

Nah, nothing to do with improper dieting. Many people find harmala alkaloids physically unpleasant.

If you're taking it with moclobemide it isn't ayahuasca

It's oral DMT tho. If you want the effects of harmala alkaloids that's fine. I prefer the effects of DMT.

There really isn't a point in just taking other people's opinions and saying they are wrong because you don't agree with them.

Where did I say anyone was "wrong"? I said I didn't agree. Do you see the difference? Don't respond to your own imagination. Read more carefully and respond to what I actually say.

 

[AlyDrops]

But I mean seriously, can anyone who's done both actually testify that lsd visuals are better or more beautiful than DMT? I dont know about that one....

That being said, what I've come to discover about my personal taste for psychedelics and they're beauty...
is this notion that where the 'true magic' lies, (in a hallucinogen) is in it's sheer intensity.

I can, although you just explained why as well. When I rate a trip, I prioritize style/theme over intensity. DMT is without a doubt more intense than LSD, but it just doesn't click with me in the way that LSD does. LSD gives me all I want and more. DMT gives me something other than what I asked for, but still wonderful. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And good luck on your trip.

Have you ever seen any drawings of ayahuasca experiences? They consiste of DMT visions - not the effect of harmala.

No, they contain Ayahuasca brew visuals, which is generally a combination of both. I'm not saying oral DMT with moclobemide isn't great too but if you haven't taken harmalas at a trip dose I don't see how you can fairly say that they have no effect on the experience. Of course it makes perfect sense to me that if you only take enough for the MAOI effects it's not going to be any different from other MAOIs, but there's so much more than that, and I think it really sucks if they have so many side effects for you that you can't enjoy it. The harmala alkaloids have an extremely wide range of effects, in addition to beings MAOIs they also include serotonin and dopamine reuptake inhibitors, acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, benzodiazepine inverse agonists, NMDA receptor antagonists, 5-HT2A/2C agonists, and more. There's looooots of hallucinogenic potential in there, but no one said it would be an easy ride.

 

[Ismene]

No, they contain Ayahuasca brew visuals, which is generally a combination of both

Well I see the same things when I take oral DMT. I don't see the same things when I take harmala. So as far as I'm concerned that's the DMT causing the visions.

The harmala alkaloids have an extremely wide range of effects

The question is whether you will notice any of these effects when under the influence of an explosively powerful psychedelic like DMT. The harmala is there to activate the DMT. Sure it may have minor effects but the DMT is responsible for the psychedelic effects - not the harmala.

There's looooots of hallucinogenic potential in there, but no one said it would be an easy ride.

I'll leave the harmala to you mate. Vomiting and shitting arn't my idea of a good time!

 

[atara]

Syrian Rue is used by some people as an antidepressant. It doesn't generally cause them to hallucinate, though.

Ayahuasca is not the only name that natives used for the admixture -- it is also referred to as yage, natem, shori, among other things.

 

[AlyDrops]

Well I certainly would notice them, for me harmalas are some of the most powerful hallucinogens there are, and I can definitely feel them color the DMT experience and vice-versa. I'd say they're much more like dissociatives than classical psychedelics, and the harmalas and DMT are like the ultimate psychedelic/dissociative combo. But if you're not gonna try raising the dose as a result of the side effects I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

I'll leave the harmala to you mate. Vomiting and shitting arn't my idea of a good time!

Well I sure don't blame you, I probably wouldn't use them either if they were that bad for me!

 

[dubdubbawobwob]

This may not necessarily be saying his opinion is wrong (though simple google searches show adding dmt in some form to the brew is not necessary) you still state your opinions like they are 100% fact. I'll correct what I said earlier. What I meant to say is that you present your opinions in an arrogant manner.

Honestly I think they're the important part, DMT is like an additive.

Can't agree with this Alydrops. DMT is by far the most important and psychedelic part of ayahuasca.

Also, Caapi can be extremely visual/psychedelic in higher doses like doses often used in ayahuasca. Visions are very attainable using only caapi

 

[Ismene]

(though simple google searches show adding dmt in some form to the brew is not necessary)

Not necessary for what? To trip you're going to need DMT. The only people who say you can trip on "ayahuasca" meaning just the caapi vine are vendors taking advantage of gullible kids.

Visions are very attainable using only caapi

Not anything remotely like DMT tho. And at those doses it's incredibly physically gruelling.

I'll correct what I said earlier.

Why bother? Just state your opinion on drugs and quit the personal attacks.

 

[AlyDrops]

Not necessary for what? To trip you're going to need DMT. The only people who say you can trip on "ayahuasca" meaning just the caapi vine are vendors taking advantage of gullible kids.

Look man, I'm not gonna argue with you about what you experience from harmalas, especially since you've already admitted that you've never even taken that high of a dose, but that's just not true. You CAN trip off of caapi. It's a frickin' hallucinogen. Saying you can't because you've only taken MAOI doses and got sick is like the people who say you can't trip off of DXM because they tried it once at 300 mg and just got nauseous.

 

[dubdubbawobwob]

Not necessary for what? To trip you're going to need DMT. The only people who say you can trip on "ayahuasca" meaning just the caapi vine are vendors taking advantage of gullible kids.

Not necessary for it to be ayahuasca. Yet you state that DMT is the most important ingredient for ayahuasca which doesn't really make sense if ayahuasca doesn't require it.

DMT is by far the most important and psychedelic part of ayahuasca.

Thank you for making my day. I'd love for you to give me some sources other than your opinion that show that you can't trip with just caapi. You didn't seem to have a problem with people saying that visions are attainable with only caapi, yet you claim in the paragraph before that you can't trip on just caapi vine. Yes they may be different than DMT but it's an entirely different compound so of course it's different and what does that have to do with the possibility of having visions with caapi?

 

[Flickering]

... I saw the stars form the many faces of God on an LSD trip. If we're still talking about beautiful visuals.

 

[AlyDrops]

... I saw the stars form the many faces of God on an LSD trip. If we're still talking about beautiful visuals.

Ah yeah, sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. I didn't see the many faces of God but I saw stars forming complex hyperspace-like shapes on DOB once, although they were all extremely geometric instead of visionary (phenethylamine-like instead of tryptamine-like). I'm glad I did that trip with low tolerance, I wouldn't want to have to dose high on DOB for intense visuals now.

 

[IamMe90]

Not necessary for what? To trip you're going to need DMT. The only people who say you can trip on "ayahuasca" meaning just the caapi vine are vendors taking advantage of gullible kids.

Visions are very attainable using only caapi

Not anything remotely like DMT tho. And at those doses it's incredibly physically gruelling.

I'll correct what I said earlier.

Why bother? Just state your opinion on drugs and quit the personal attacks.

The reason why so many people here make personal attacks about you is that condescension and arrogance are far, far more irritating than ad hominem attacks.

You also miss the point of this board, we're not here to simply state opinions and move on, we're here to have cohesive discussions, which you simply refuse to participate in - you state your opinion and smash it against peoples' faces like a blunt instrument. If you were only interesting in "stating you opinion and moving on," anyway, you wouldn't drag out arguments with us to the degree that you do - the fact is, you enjoy angering people.

 

[ambiguity]

well put IamMe90. but just to re-kindle the discussion a little...
Although Ismene did tend to give his opinion in an arrogant manor, i still think he's right. But I also think Alydrops is right too.
I really strongly feel that the ayahuasca experience is all about THE MIX of dmt and harmalas.
yes... dmt is the primary one responsible for the 'magic', but the harmalas definetly alter the trip significantly.

I remember a trip of mine in particular where I made an awful decision to go ahead attempting ayahuasca without a scale... and i basically ended up ingesting 4-5 grams of syrian rue instead of 1.5-3... and boy oh boy was I ever fucked.
I was much more sedated than usually, my vision was blurred and shaky, not to mention I was high before even taking the DMT (because I take the drinks seperately).
So i mean.. theres definetly value in both plants, and like i said earlier... caapi is different in its own right too. they are all psychoactive... and for most people even hallucinogenic.
If you don't believe me, try brewing a Mimosa brew (x2 the amount in weight) and it will still be active because the plant contains mild MAOI's. You will notice many changes in the visions versus a mix of mimosa with caapi/syrian rue.

The arguement is silly because everyone knows that DMT is the main contributor, and that there are many admixtures (yes, perhaps the shamans of the rainforest would say it is precisely the reverse). But the effects of DMT are well-documented and we know it's what creates those top of the scale hallucinations.

I think the important thing to understand is that it doesnt matter how you feel about ayahuasca,pharmhuasca etc.
The force and the light are an inserperable knot. And you really cant make a traditional ayahuasca without the one and the other.
And if you like it a different way... then dont call it ayahuasca, or at least make a clear distinction.