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Divulge in darkness? Wanting a bad trip? (also a Datura question)

hiphophippy

hiphophippy

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It might seem kind odd. I'm not a masochist at all, but I am very peculiar child. Not only do I delight in the macabre but I also have trained myself through years of meditation and practice to enjoy things I don't like. Like trying to pick out the good flavors in something I don't like eating, or focusing on the positive of a relationship instead of the sadness of the end.

And this is hwere I will make a bolded large statement "I do not want to go on a bad trip."

Buuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttttt.... I remember while I was high (LSD) and even now I desire indulge in creepy things. I had an INTENSE ear craving to listen to this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZCmt38liQ and other stuff like Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, lords of the octagon. Basically dark industrial music.
I mean during my trip I forced myself to think about and envision being covered in centipedes, millipedes and maggots which are basically the only things I'm really afraid of. Which in retrospective/nowospectrive? I think was good because my fear of all of them has decreased.

And I guess I want to ask if anyone else had/has weird impulses like I do?


Also I recently heard about Datura (devil's weed) and my curiosity is driving me crazy. I want to just ingest a very small dose the whole "evil"ness of it is like dark sexy bait to me. eugh (as well as the whole talking to people from your past thing) so if anybody has any experience with low doses of Datura please share them with me.
 
For someone who goes around posting about how they're sure they've diagnosed themselves with schizophrenia you sure seems to have a lot of bad ideas. First self medicating it with acid then this...

Yes you can mentally steer yourself on psychedelics, which is why set and setting are always important.

Secondly datura isn't 'evil', its just dysphoric to most who take it. Some people will argue that they love it, but the fact is it's not a typical psychedelic-style intoxication, it works as an anticholinergic not on serotonin or dopamine. And since it's a plant there's no regulation of dosages in the seeds or leaves and you can end up with huge variance making it impossible to know if you're taking a small dose.


If you absolutely insist on trying the anticholinergic experience consider using diphenhydramine, since at least you can know exactly how many milligrams you're taking.
 
Qnick said:
For someone who goes around posting about how they're sure they've diagnosed themselves with schizophrenia you sure seems to have a lot of bad ideas. First self medicating it with acid then this...

Yes you can mentally steer yourself on psychedelics, which is why set and setting are always important.

Secondly datura isn't 'evil', its just dysphoric to most who take it. Some people will argue that they love it, but the fact is it's not a typical psychedelic-style intoxication, it works as an anticholinergic not on serotonin or dopamine. And since it's a plant there's no regulation of dosages in the seeds or leaves and you can end up with huge variance making it impossible to know if you're taking a small dose.


If you absolutely insist on trying the anticholinergic experience consider using diphenhydramine, since at least you can know exactly how many milligrams you're taking.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I'm pretty much addicted to chaos. 0.o Also about the evil thing that is why there were quotations there.
the only thing I can think of that has diphenhydramine is Benadryl in which case I will just fall asleep for two days.
and lastly I didn't self medicate with LSD i was in a position where i was largely dis-satisfied with my life and I was offered drugs for the first time that was not weed and were not addictive in the form of LSD. After I came down for about week I felt normal for the first time in a long time. I didn't hear people screaming at me in my head, I didn't see shadows running away from me with their creepy stares. I wasn't afraid that everyone was conspiring against me.
Though I do understand that you are concerned for my mental health and safety as well ass those around me. which I find flattering this thread is basically to satiate my curiousitys and exstinguish my desires intellectually. As well as to inquire if othe rpeople have the same kind of thought processes as me some times.
 
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I get where you're coming from, I'm the same way. I'll say this: stick to psychedelics. One of the reasons acid is so great is because it can be directed like that. On datura you will have no say, and will more than likely see none of the things you want to, and instead just see things that actually will make you uncomfortable. Datura plays off your fears, not your desires. Of course if you just want to try as many things as possible then it's quite an experience, but I wouldn't expect it to be ideal for this purpose. LSD really is the way to go for this.
 
The thing that bothers me about this is not the fact that you try to make things BAD, but that you TRY TO MAKE THINGS bad. Know the difference? Let it be. The psychedelics will go where your subconscious needs them.
 
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i would suggest growing datura, if you are to meet with it.

i have been growing datura for 3 years now, and i love it's companionship. i haven't ever partaken, but just through meditating with it, it's presence is very distinct, and its spirit can often be heard.

i've always been intrigued by the shamanic application of datura, though like most, i was quite intimidated by all the inconsistencies (and consistent undesirables lol). however, now that i 'know' the plant, i am much much more comfortable with the idea of meeting with it, when the time is right.

that being said, from what i've gathered, smoking a small amount is the best way to 'get a feel' for it without going over the edge. though all deleriants have a trend of making you forget you partook if you go past a certain point.

in terms of taking a 'full interaction' dosage...i think the safesty preparation would be an oil salve extraction. i believe oil extracts the scopolamine, and not the atropine, which is more toxic (the atropine).

i know that the alkaloid content varies very much from plant to plant, and is dependent on soil factors, atmospheric conditions and the time of year (maybe even the moon). i also know that the alkaloid distribution in the plant is relatively even, up until it fruits, then the plant shifts almost all of its alkaloids to its fruit and seeds. maybe a leaf, taken respectfully, during fruiting would be a manageable alkaloid amount.

i will meet with mine before too long, beyond my own 'decisions' i can feel the time approaching for its necessity. i will not hurt the plant in harvest when i go to meet, but will likely rather take a dried flower from the base of the plant. if it feels right, maybe i'll take a fresh flower, i'll have to see. i will either do the oil salve, or a tea containing a small, small, small, small amount of the flower to start (i am freaking sensitive to all psychoactives).

*with the oil* there are areas where it is safe to put it, and areas where it is dangerous. part of that is from don juan (i'm not saying its a fact), but i remember reading something more scientific regarding this as well.

a final note, somewhere recently, i read on a forum about someone who was using datura for shamanic purposes. this really stood out to me...he said something along the lines of 'datura is a poison, and will kill something when it enters you. the foolish will take it with no intention, and its destruction will be haphazard. however, with the right intention and respect, the datura can help you to kill off parts of yourself which you no longer need, or kill off toxic components of the body.' this really rings a bell with me, as i am in the process of fighting off some very malevolent spirits which have plagued me for years. i will pray for guidance, and ask the datura to help me to destroy the demon.
 
hmm i see what you mean, it can be intruiging... i have had 2 bad experiences on psychedelics, i saw what could be the shadow people. just black figures walking down a dark road with me and disappearing, and reappearing, it was fucked up, not fun at all unless you are used to it i suppose.

also on a high dose of aMT it was all going great until i looked up because i heard some buzzing and saw myself, my lap top and my bed covered in flies, it scared the shit out of me for a few seconds because obviously it took me by surpise, but then i thought 'wow, its amazing how my mind came up with this', then they went and i did want something dark to happen, but its never a good idea tbh.
 
thoughtsUnThought said:
i would suggest growing datura, if you are to meet with it.

i have been growing datura for 3 years now, and i love it's companionship. i haven't ever partaken, but just through meditating with it, it's presence is very distinct, and its spirit can often be heard.

i've always been intrigued by the shamanic application of datura, though like most, i was quite intimidated by all the inconsistencies (and consistent undesirables lol). however, now that i 'know' the plant, i am much much more comfortable with the idea of meeting with it, when the time is right.

that being said, from what i've gathered, smoking a small amount is the best way to 'get a feel' for it without going over the edge. though all deleriants have a trend of making you forget you partook if you go past a certain point.

in terms of taking a 'full interaction' dosage...i think the safesty preparation would be an oil salve extraction. i believe oil extracts the scopolamine, and not the atropine, which is more toxic (the atropine).

i know that the alkaloid content varies very much from plant to plant, and is dependent on soil factors, atmospheric conditions and the time of year (maybe even the moon). i also know that the alkaloid distribution in the plant is relatively even, up until it fruits, then the plant shifts almost all of its alkaloids to its fruit and seeds. maybe a leaf, taken respectfully, during fruiting would be a manageable alkaloid amount.

i will meet with mine before too long, beyond my own 'decisions' i can feel the time approaching for its necessity. i will not hurt the plant in harvest when i go to meet, but will likely rather take a dried flower from the base of the plant. if it feels right, maybe i'll take a fresh flower, i'll have to see. i will either do the oil salve, or a tea containing a small, small, small, small amount of the flower to start (i am freaking sensitive to all psychoactives).

*with the oil* there are areas where it is safe to put it, and areas where it is dangerous. part of that is from don juan (i'm not saying its a fact), but i remember reading something more scientific regarding this as well.

a final note, somewhere recently, i read on a forum about someone who was using datura for shamanic purposes. this really stood out to me...he said something along the lines of 'datura is a poison, and will kill something when it enters you. the foolish will take it with no intention, and its destruction will be haphazard. however, with the right intention and respect, the datura can help you to kill off parts of yourself which you no longer need, or kill off toxic components of the body.' this really rings a bell with me, as i am in the process of fighting off some very malevolent spirits which have plagued me for years. i will pray for guidance, and ask the datura to help me to destroy the demon.
Click to expand...

Wonderful post. Thanks for that.

It really is a fascinating plant.
 
Br1tannia said:
hmm i see what you mean, it can be intruiging... i have had 2 bad experiences on psychedelics, i saw what could be the shadow people. just black figures walking down a dark road with me and disappearing, and reappearing, it was fucked up, not fun at all unless you are used to it i suppose.

also on a high dose of aMT it was all going great until i looked up because i heard some buzzing and saw myself, my lap top and my bed covered in flies, it scared the shit out of me for a few seconds because obviously it took me by surpise, but then i thought 'wow, its amazing how my mind came up with this', then they went and i did want something dark to happen, but its never a good idea tbh.
Click to expand...


Since very recently when I opened up about my crazy I've coincidentally stumbled upon quie a few people who also see the shadow people. Its starting to make me wonder if I'm not crazy and they are just some spiritual force or something. When ever i and other people see them they appear briefly usually about 1.3-1.6 meters and they stare at you. its kind of weird because they don't have eyes but you know that they are staring at you. but yeah just for a moment they stare at you and then they run behind something and disappear. but the main difference between me and other people is that I see them sober and I've always seen them sober since before I used psychedelics.
 
hiphophippy said:
Since very recently when I opened up about my crazy I've coincidentally stumbled upon quie a few people who also see the shadow people. Its starting to make me wonder if I'm not crazy and they are just some spiritual force or something.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it could be that...or they could be crazy, too. Seeing dark figures is a pretty common feature of schizophrenia and other delusional illnesses. I know a few people who have claimed to see what they described as "shadow people", and all of them have been a bit (or a lot) crazy.

It's different if you're seeing these figures while tripping (like the person you quoted) rather than sober.

I think bad trips can be just as, if not more, enlightening than good trips. Even though I'm not the ideal picture of mental health, I can absolutely see the benefit in wanting to induce a bad trip for personal growth/insight, just don't do it with delirients. You don't learn anything on datura/diphenhydramine other than "I don't want to do datura/diphenhydramine again".
 
thoughtsUnThought said:
i would suggest growing datura, if you are to meet with it.

i have been growing datura for 3 years now, and i love it's companionship. i haven't ever partaken, but just through meditating with it, it's presence is very distinct, and its spirit can often be heard.

i've always been intrigued by the shamanic application of datura, though like most, i was quite intimidated by all the inconsistencies (and consistent undesirables lol). however, now that i 'know' the plant, i am much much more comfortable with the idea of meeting with it, when the time is right.

that being said, from what i've gathered, smoking a small amount is the best way to 'get a feel' for it without going over the edge. though all deleriants have a trend of making you forget you partook if you go past a certain point.

in terms of taking a 'full interaction' dosage...i think the safesty preparation would be an oil salve extraction. i believe oil extracts the scopolamine, and not the atropine, which is more toxic (the atropine).

i know that the alkaloid content varies very much from plant to plant, and is dependent on soil factors, atmospheric conditions and the time of year (maybe even the moon). i also know that the alkaloid distribution in the plant is relatively even, up until it fruits, then the plant shifts almost all of its alkaloids to its fruit and seeds. maybe a leaf, taken respectfully, during fruiting would be a manageable alkaloid amount.

i will meet with mine before too long, beyond my own 'decisions' i can feel the time approaching for its necessity. i will not hurt the plant in harvest when i go to meet, but will likely rather take a dried flower from the base of the plant. if it feels right, maybe i'll take a fresh flower, i'll have to see. i will either do the oil salve, or a tea containing a small, small, small, small amount of the flower to start (i am freaking sensitive to all psychoactives).

*with the oil* there are areas where it is safe to put it, and areas where it is dangerous. part of that is from don juan (i'm not saying its a fact), but i remember reading something more scientific regarding this as well.

a final note, somewhere recently, i read on a forum about someone who was using datura for shamanic purposes. this really stood out to me...he said something along the lines of 'datura is a poison, and will kill something when it enters you. the foolish will take it with no intention, and its destruction will be haphazard. however, with the right intention and respect, the datura can help you to kill off parts of yourself which you no longer need, or kill off toxic components of the body.' this really rings a bell with me, as i am in the process of fighting off some very malevolent spirits which have plagued me for years. i will pray for guidance, and ask the datura to help me to destroy the demon.
Click to expand...

I might just do that. I intend to use psychoactive in a shamanistic way. I'm wholly uninterested in the ooh look pretty colors side. Minds and most specifically my mind very interesting. (not in an egotistic or my mind being more interesting way it is just that the only mind I can be in is my own so rather then speculate about others it's more interesting to learn about mine) I wholly believe that psychoactives give you insight if not activate parts of your brain that are usually unconscious.


But really the most appealing thing about Datura is the communication part. Out of all of the issues I have ever had there are only two that I have not been able to bring to peace or conquer through meditation.
That is one of my gfs who left me after i endured innumerable and wholly horrible things for to help her out of a very dark place. Which by I am still trying to decipher how to deal with. this one will come from talking to her and constituting peace eventually.

The other well a death

copy pasted from a previous writing
As far as my (grand)mother goes I watched her die over my childhood. Now I seperate it from my grand mother because she raised me. She wasn't a close person to like many peoples grand parents. As far as I am concerned she was my mother. I watched her loose her ability to walk. And go through two strokes. and finally fall into a coma. All before the age of 9. Now you may say whatever about others suffering but the final break down is that on her dying bed I was suggested to cudle with her. at that age I couldn't process death. I didn't know what he fuck was going on and so I slept in my bed. And when I awoke she wasn't only dead, she was gone (physically). And no matter how much I justify it to myself I will never forgive myself for that. It's the center of my only fear. I'm not afraid of bugs, I'm not afraid of dying, I'm not afraid of failing by any means; the only thing I am afraid of is not being strong enough, i'm not afraid of being weak i'm afraid of not being strong enough... it is a hard to explain.

Basically that concretes the main allure of datura to me, I hope I might be able to have a convincing or at least convince myself that I had talked to her and apologized or whatever feels right.

From what I've studied it seems that bad trips happen when people build up anxiety and fear of a trip rather than embracing the darkness as an means of learning about all the things inside of you that are not all fluffy cotton candy care beary in your brain.

I very much like ad appreciate your post because it resonates with me and I do believe I will buy a jimsonweed weed plant now and keep it with me until I feel harmonic with it and then until I feel like the time is right.


Fagott said:
a quick google search could have found you loads of information:
Click to expand...

thanks I've never really been able to figure out how to work goggole to search a specific site and I cannot get the search engine on the forum to work for me either
 
I have a lot of experience with datura, maybe 50-60 experiences on a moderate dose, 10-20 high dose trips and a huge number of low doses.

Once I got into real, good psychedelics, I stopped doing datura, although I can appreciate things about it. Mainly that the visuals from anti-cholinergics are really really weird in a unique way. But I don't recommend datura use, and I think if you have mental issues you should stay away from it.

Datura does not make you feel high in many ways. Everything feels more or less normal, but everything is really fucked up and not at all normal. So you wander around thinking you're being normal, just walking around, but in reality you're running around completely crazy in public.

The visuals often contain shadow people and pretty much always did for me. You think people and animals are running around everywhere but they're just shadows.

The experience is often, if not usually very unpleasant. Not like facing your fears on LSD. Unpleasant like you feel like you're in a nightmare and you also are basically retarded and crazy as hell. I also found that by the next morning I had always forgotten the entirety or the majority of the experience, sometimes having left my house or other people's houses in disarray. Sometimes I'd wake up far away from home with no memory of how I got there.

Datura is a dangerous and strange drug. I can understand why you'd want to use it, but you really shouldn't. For someone with mental problems, datura is very, very dangerous. You won't have a good time. Datura is absolutely nothing like LSD or mushrooms or any other traditional psychedelic. It's similar to diphenhydramine and other anti-cholinergics. The only thing datura reminds me of that isn't an anti-cholinergic is pcp but the two aren't that similar. PCP is actually fun and you generally know you're high to a degree. With datura you often forget you took drugs and think everything is normal, but you feel bad as hell and awful things are happening. And the visuals are quite different. But not at all worth it.

If you do have to take datura (you don't and you shouldn't, but I'll post this for safety's sake), here's what you should do. Start by smoking some. Either dried leaves or flowers in a bowl. Smoke a small amount and wait ten minutes. Don't smoke more then one bowl your first time. I'd advise against smoking seeds because they explode when you light them unless you break them into little pieces and they're harsh as all hell. Just see how it hits you, smoking it is more manageable and tends to be less unpleasant. I used to usually chew on leaves, flowers or seeds until I was where I wanted to be, but I started with smoking. With datura, each plant can vary radically in strength so you shouldn't do a medium sized dose until you can gauge the potency of the plant. ALWAYS have someone with you who's not crazy on datura. Always. I didn't always follow that rule and a lot of things went wrong.

Don't fuck around with datura, it is a dangerous drug. It will make you crazy, that is what it does. All of its effects can be summed up by saying it makes you insane, that's all it does.
 
I just realized that myristicin (found in nutmeg) is an anti-chlorgenic as well. I'm not sure about the comparison but I very much enjoyed my nutmeg trip. At first everything lost color and then green orange and yellow all began to radiate a corona.
and I just felt very calm for like 3 days.
I guess it should be said I don't (if I do) plan on taking a large dosage of datura, nor would I ever take and psych without a sober sitter. I would probably take 1 or 2 seeds. contrary to the trip shit think I'm sitting down but I'm actually doing a back flip while eating tree bark and taking off my clothes people who take 15seeds-3 pods worth. Which as far as I can derive separates the good experiences form the bad.

And I don't smoke anything so I cannot smoke it in a bowl.

Another interesting tid bit I just found is that Shiva is purported to have smoked datura mixed with cannabis. Which seems to parallel to Shiva being associated with the death of ego.
 
Even nutmeg's trip is preferable to datura. Nutmeg is much more like a heavy cannabis stone; it lacks the true delusions and delerium seen in atropine alkaloid poisoning.
 
Datura or any of the tropane alkaloid containing Solanaceae are a bad idea pretty much any time imho.

They are pretty much poisons and you might be doing less brain damage sniffing paint thinner than ingesting a datura tea.

Check out erowid, a lot of information on extremely negative, dangerous, and horrifying experiences on datura.

If you want an "evil" drug and haven't tried it, try a salvia extract. Though it's subjective ofc, I have had nothing but extremely nightmarish highs on salvia. :)
 
I had that same feeling while on a pretty nutty trip consisting of 2ce and DXM. It was like everything and a very "Halloween" feel to it and I was scared shitless the whole time but also loving every second of it (and boy were those some looonng seconds haha)

ever since then I've been pretty interested in that side of a trip and have taken to watching either horror movies or twisted mind-fuck shit on the comedowns of my trips.

also makes me want to try salvia since I've never had it but everyone I know who has say it's scary as hell
 
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