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LSD & Neural Pathways

Zildjian

Zildjian

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Jun 3, 2008
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shroomland
So I've tripped 10-15 times on LSD, all but two were from the same batch. During these experiences, I'd get a 'feeling' when listening to music.. some would call it synesthesia, some would call it being high, whatever, but it was a new feeling, exclusive to the moments when I had LSD in my blood. Each time I tripped I could remember this feeling and go back to it, and it made my heart pump and my brain 'orgasm', yet it was not simply euphoria, it was a thought-process that occurred. Now, some can relate to this, and some, I'm assuming, would not.

Anyways, last night, I smoked some very potent Sativa strain of marijuana, and put on some sick electronic music. I was soon lost in the song. This was all fine and dandy as I always get lost in songs when I smoke. All of a sudden, my brain went back to that feeling, that thought process. It was weird, because I have never experienced this outside of taking LSD, and it has been a while since I have taken any. I had the "weird" feeling I often got when I tripped, and the shivers.

So basically I'm asking, is it possible that the LSD use has opened a "pathway" of sorts, that my brain has somehow stepped onto once again? It may have been a flashback, I'm not sure as I haven't looked into those much, but it felt like a 'learned' feeling. Does anyone have any knowledge on seretogenic pathways, neural pathways, or anything of the sort? I'm really curious as to what I felt and if anyone has any insight, or similar experiences.

With peace,
Zildjian
 
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the experience you had on lsd was a particularly intriguing neural pathway. Without the drug, you have the potential to re-fire the same neural paths. Albeit, this time around you may not have floods of serotonin/dopamine/etc firing between those paths, but the paths of themselves are still accessible. Something will fire across them, some neurotransmitter combinations, but likely not the same combo as the LSD neurotransmitter cocktail.

the process of learning is developing neuro-pathways that one is able to readily fire down. The more you 'learn' something, the more accessible that 'knowledge' or 'idea' is to you, because your brain is more easily able to fire that pathway without conscious dedication. This is how a pattern becomes a habit, the road becomes tread enough that the path becomes 'easier' to walk down.

so...since you've been shown this pathway during your LSD experiences, you definitely can re-walk them. if you just sit there and reflect on your experience, you will start to re-fire them. If you surround yourself with associative stimuli, the re-firing will be more submerssive. ie, listening to the music and being stoned reminded your brain of that pathway, and upon remembering you began to re-fire that pattern. (more correctly, the rememberance itself, was the re-firing)

another factor, once you trip a handful of times, you start to notice the more psychedelic aspects of the cannabis high. this psychedelization of the weed high can further point you in the direction of those neuro-paths from your trips. :D hope this was helpful
 
thoughtsUnThought said:
the experience you had on lsd was a particularly intriguing neural pathway. Without the drug, you have the potential to re-fire the same neural paths. Albeit, this time around you may not have floods of serotonin/dopamine/etc firing between those paths, but the paths of themselves are still accessible. Something will fire across them, some neurotransmitter combinations, but likely not the same combo as the LSD neurotransmitter cocktail.
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This is completely wrong, LSD does NOT flood the body with neurotransmitters - LSD is not a "neurotransmitter cocktail," it doesn't release any neurotransmitters into the body, it binds to neurotransmitter receptor sites.
 
i may have misspoke, but the intake of LSD certainly changes the neurotransmitter firing. While not specifically firing them into the body itself, it's binding to receptor sites changes the firing of the neurons in terms of their neurotransmitter release as well as the patterns from which they connect.

right..?? its been a bit since i've studied neuropsychology, but i definitely remember neurontransmitters being the primary 'change' in neurochemistry whilst under the influence of a drug.
 
i accept i am prone to fallibility....
perhaps my 'model' for psychedelics affect on the brain is inaccurate...inform me :)
 
The usually accepted theory is simpler than any of that. The LSD experience is very powerful and carries great psychological impact. The weed high, while totally different, is still an altered state that "reminded" you of the experience. Read the threads about HPPD and also some of the ones about drug use paralleling PTSD. Any kind of extremely powerful experience can produce this type of "recall" potential. Someone else will explain this a ton better any moment I'm sure.
 
LSD affects serotonin (5-ht1a, 5-ht1b, 5-ht1d, 5-ht2a, 5-ht5a, 5-ht6) and dopamine (D3, D4) receptors acting as a partial agonist. However, it has never been observed to 'rewire the brain' in any measurable way.

The effects you experienced are far more likely due to your memory of previous LSD experiences than they are to physiological changes related to LSD use.
 
but can memory of previous experiences allow me to feel them once more without actually tripping?
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Zidjian,

It's been around 37 years since I've taken anything like LSD. Every once in a while I'll get flashbacks where I see swirling colors and can taste/smell them. It's NOWHERE as intense as being on the drug!

I'm probably wrong here, but years ago I heard some of the LSD never leaves your body…it gets trapped in your spine. Then every now and again a small amount will get released into your brain, which in turn causes the flashbacks.

Leaping Gnome
 
Leaping Gnome said:
I'm probably wrong here, but years ago I heard some of the LSD never leaves your body…it gets trapped in your spine. Then every now and again a small amount will get released into your brain, which in turn causes the flashbacks.
Click to expand...

That's just an old urban myth. The second part of it goes "Every time you crack your back you are instantly transported to the peak of an LSD trip".

I think the first part went "A trip is your brain cells popping, and the blood pours down your spine coating it with crystalline LSD".
 
Activation of some 5-ht receptors have been seen to induce LTP and synaptogenesis, and I believe the 5-ht2a receptors being one of them. So they can have an effect on your neurons, but not in such away that you have unlocked some magic door.
 
from what i understand, all experiences are guiding our neuro-growth, and deciding the particular patterns which represent our mind-set as well as thought patterns. intense, and life-changing experiences, be them good or bad, have a more pronounced and direct 'changing' effect on our neuropathways.

if this is true, then lsd, while not 'opening magic doors', does often provide more substantial neuropattern changes than does a mundane day......is this accurate? (you mad scientist fucks ;))
 
atara said:
LSD affects serotonin (5-ht1a, 5-ht1b, 5-ht1d, 5-ht2a, 5-ht5a, 5-ht6) and dopamine (D3, D4) receptors acting as a partial agonist. However, it has never been observed to 'rewire the brain' in any measurable way.

The effects you experienced are far more likely due to your memory of previous LSD experiences than they are to physiological changes related to LSD use.
Click to expand...

Memory formation IS a physiological change ;) . Are you familiar with the molecular basis of memory formation?

And yes, activation of 5-HT2A along with many other receptor sites targeted by serotonergic psychedelics is observed to induce LTP (long term potentiation), in conjunction with the general novelty of the experience, so this will assist further with memory formation and so transformation experience. I believe the atypical sites targeted by LSD (specifically, D4) probably has good deal to do with how many people find it particularly transformative.
 
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