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Can an ego dissolving dose be a bad trip?
- Thread starter juniorcat
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OrphicTrench
Bluelighter
Well, if you do not accept ego death and you resist dying, it can turn into a pretty harsh experience quite quickly. Also, the re-entry can be hard sometimes but it all depends on your level of resistance and your mental preparation.
MrGrunge
Bluelighter
Ego death can lead to a really terrifying trip - but at the same time, it can also be incredibly enlightening. If you can accept that your ego hasn't so much 'died' as gone in 'remission', then you can avoid all of those scary feelings and focus on the trip itself...this is easier said than done, however, as an ego-dissolving dose of any drug is going to make it difficult to accept rational thought. Prepare yourself, body and mind, and you'll stand a better chance.
I wouldn't get too worried about it - there's no such thing as the ego, it was a theory of Freuds from 100 years ago that was discredited when brain scanning came in. You arn't dying, you're just tripping on a psychedelic. It really is that simple. Stay in a positive frame of mind and enjoy what's happening to you rather than worrying about it. Just see it as your break from everyday life for a few hours.
Happy Trails
Greenlighter
With all do respect my friend, you are 100% incorrect with this assertion...
You truly lost my at the ego falling by the wayside with the advent of brain scans??? How can brain scans verify the existance of an ego? Your cursory understanding of psychology is very apparent. Please read a psych 101 book.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
Despite Freud's bullshit theories, i think there is some sort of ego like thing going on. Our earthly desires for possessions, safety, personal relationships, paranoia, fear - when you have 'ego death' it really does feel like you are dying, during the time when you are 'dead' you lose these feelings, like you don't care if you win or lose, or if someone is better than you or has more than you. You also lose desire to 'better yourself' or work hard or make money. It's like your personality has dissolved into oneness and individual desires no longer matter. We can argue the terminology for this experience but it doesn't matter, this happens to plenty of people.
5-meo-dmt will do this and you will not be able to fight it. You may freak out a bit when you start to feel yourself go out of body and stop breathing but at that point you don't really have a choice in the matter. Similar with salvia I guess, once you've smoked enough there's no turning back no matter how much your mind doesn't want to experience it. DMT is a bit more gentle and fun but can still do the same. I've had ego death on LSD, LSA, and especially DXM, the same thing happens each time, i swear that i've died, experience complete oneness, eventually the drugs wear off and i realize i'm not dead, then i'm reborn. I don't really have an explanation for it but from experience there are doses that will force this feeling upon you. The doses depend on the individual but 4th plateau dxm, or a high dose of 5-meo-dmt will most certainly put you in the state i describe above.
whether you want to call it ego death or something else, it's a profound experience of losing your individuality.
5-meo-dmt will do this and you will not be able to fight it. You may freak out a bit when you start to feel yourself go out of body and stop breathing but at that point you don't really have a choice in the matter. Similar with salvia I guess, once you've smoked enough there's no turning back no matter how much your mind doesn't want to experience it. DMT is a bit more gentle and fun but can still do the same. I've had ego death on LSD, LSA, and especially DXM, the same thing happens each time, i swear that i've died, experience complete oneness, eventually the drugs wear off and i realize i'm not dead, then i'm reborn. I don't really have an explanation for it but from experience there are doses that will force this feeling upon you. The doses depend on the individual but 4th plateau dxm, or a high dose of 5-meo-dmt will most certainly put you in the state i describe above.
whether you want to call it ego death or something else, it's a profound experience of losing your individuality.
Help?!?!
Bluelighter
Ego death usually is the cause for most peoples monumental bad trips IMO. When you don't know what ego death is and your not completely mentally stable or prepared its not usually going to go well(person resists and attempts to hold on to their ego, everytime I assumed it was ego death people would loop about being died or dieing, which is why I assumed it was ego death that got them and most I talked to afterwards described ego death experiences). As far as what your asking do you think just because your egos gone nothing bad can happen? Of course you can still have negative thoughts and all that, just be prepared and know yourself, then there should be nothing to fear anyways.
MrGrunge
Bluelighter
Exactly. I use the term 'ego' as a 'general sense of self'. Whether or not the Id and Superego are indeed real components of an individual's psyche, how can you possibly deny the fact that "you" exist? During what most people consider 'ego death', a sense of self is entirely absent. I was reading an article about drug-induced ego death awhile ago (I'll try to find the link) that showed that people experiencing ego death implicitly refer to themselves as 'you' rather than 'I', which made total sense to me. One time, during a powerful dissociative trip, I started freaking out, and I remembered thinking things like "You're so fucked", "You shouldn't have done that", "You took a drug, chill out", "You're getting dehydrated, drink some water" etc etc. Freud has nothing to do with the Ego as a concept, it was simply a component of one of his theories.
Flickering
Bluelighter
Yes, ego dissolving trips can be horrendous when you're not prepared for them. If you're ready to let go, if you're able to remind yourself that you're tripping, they're not so bad and can in fact be enjoyable and insightful.
Not really, the ego was always a psychological concept, not a theory about a part of the brain.
Not really, the ego was always a psychological concept, not a theory about a part of the brain.
Doses like that do exist, but they're not exactly something you should reach for if you can't handle regular doses yet. Not being able to resist won't make it any less horrifying.
I see.
How can brain scans verify the existance of an ego
Because they give you a scientific insight into how the brain actually functions. So you arn't reliant on 100 year old bullshit theories based on no evidence whatsoever. You feel me?
The ego is nothing more than a figment of Freuds imagination. It has no basis in reality.
I get where you're coming from Robot but obviously none of us knows what it feels like to really be dying so that's just a meaningless turn of phrase to start with.
We can argue the terminology for this experience but it doesn't matter, this happens to plenty of people.
I think the terminology is important tho - like using the word "dying" - you arn't "dying" when you're on psychedelics. You might feel a bit uncomfortable and that's about it. Obviously saying "I was, like, DYING dude.." sounds a lot more dramatic when you're telling your pals about the trip you had at the weekend so that's why you'll hear people saying it. It sounds better than saying "I felt a bit uncomfortable". It doesn't prove there's such a thing as the ego-death.
MrGrunge
Bluelighter
So "you" don't exist? You're merely an automaton, identical to everyone else? The ego is merely that distinguishing feature that separates you from everyone else, it is your sense of 'who you are'. Freud's theories revolved around the three subconscious constructs (Id, Ego, Superego) that he postulated composed the human psyche. He wasn't even the first to use the word 'ego' to describe a sense of self...hell, 'ego' in Latin means 'I'. So while Freud's theories have been, for the most part, disproven, that doesn't change the fact that an ego is a real thing...for most people, it's the main thing in their life since all of their decisions and hopes and dreams are products of their individual personality.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
well technically 'you' are dying on psychedelics. The 'you', the individual is becoming one with everything. Freud's theories are just bullshit because they can't be proven, he could very well be right about everything. But Freud aside, have you not had one of these experiences? I use the words dying, ego because it's easier for others to understand what I am talking about, I don't get hung up on the words, the experience is ineffable in itself, best i can describe it as is losing individuality. It's not feeling a bit uncomfortable, there's no 'you' to feel uncomfortable. I forget that i had ever even been a person, just no memory of life whatsoever.
I'm not using the words 'dying' for dramatic effect, and especially not to boast. I imagine that dying is somewhat like what I experience, of course i do not know but the loss of a sense of self, or individuality, the questions that i have like "fuck, did i die?", that is what gives me the inclination to describe the experience as ego death. This isn't a dick measuring contest, it's something that actually happens whether you agree or not, have you not experienced this?
You aren't exactly disproving ego death either or that there is no ego, brain scans aren't going to show it one way or another. It's not all about Freud either, he'd probably attribute ego death in relation to some sort of latent sexual desire for your parents or something, what we are talking about is different. Ego = that thing that desires physical things like food/comfort/water/protection (or the 'I' part of thinking as mentioned above). During a hard psychedelic trip for some reason these desires and the sense of 'I' are destroyed, thus being described as ego death - the loss of physical desires or sense of self. That's pretty clear imo and does not involve Freud.
Perhaps if you didn't think about it in Freudeian terms then it'd be easier to grasp without your bullshit alarm going off. But really you have to experience this state to know what it is about, if you think it's 'a bit uncomfortable' then i don't think that you have been there, you wouldn't describe it as uncomfortable, as you wouldn't have any feelings. If someone has a near death experience people don't usually question them and ask them how they even know what death was like. NDEs are almost exactly the same experience as ego death.
!!4iV4HF9R34g
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
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Firstly, every individual's perception of Existence is built on a model. This model is created by the originality and associations of thought in the human mind.
It has been my understanding that a principle goal of psychonautics is Ego-Loss.
In my experience, ego-softening ("-loss") induced by entheogens is likely to be forceful and can vary between bliss and discomfiture. The experience is subjective and differing, often influenced by the substance as well.
Ego-softening from sober practices is less readily apparent, but often longer lasting, or affecting on the life of the individual.
I have never experienced true ego-loss whilst sober, but Ego-Softening is apparent in my life, and I am proud and glad of the fact.
Being intelligently reactional entirely in the present is a feeling of being content, yet still self-actualizing. This is not the loss of your ego.
True ego-loss is no awareness whatsoever, and it is only recognized in hindsight. Ego-loss is the abolition of the perception model, and thus results in inexperience of Existence (the only means of experiencing the totality of Existence; as everything and nothingness are singular without distinction).
This state, when achieved through entheogens or other psychonautic practices, is not permanent, because the functioning of the brain is not affected adversely.
This may mean that lasting ego-death equates to physical death as well, since complete annihilation of the ability to perceive can really be achieved only through the incapability of the mechanisms of the model to function, i.e. death.
(This is, of course, based on the premise that cessation of neurological activity results in the end of perception; this premise may be flawed, as it does not account for the other realities composing Existence. Nonetheless, current knowledge is current ha, and I'm no time traveler.)
It has been my understanding that a principle goal of psychonautics is Ego-Loss.
In my experience, ego-softening ("-loss") induced by entheogens is likely to be forceful and can vary between bliss and discomfiture. The experience is subjective and differing, often influenced by the substance as well.
Ego-softening from sober practices is less readily apparent, but often longer lasting, or affecting on the life of the individual.
I have never experienced true ego-loss whilst sober, but Ego-Softening is apparent in my life, and I am proud and glad of the fact.
Being intelligently reactional entirely in the present is a feeling of being content, yet still self-actualizing. This is not the loss of your ego.
True ego-loss is no awareness whatsoever, and it is only recognized in hindsight. Ego-loss is the abolition of the perception model, and thus results in inexperience of Existence (the only means of experiencing the totality of Existence; as everything and nothingness are singular without distinction).
This state, when achieved through entheogens or other psychonautic practices, is not permanent, because the functioning of the brain is not affected adversely.
This may mean that lasting ego-death equates to physical death as well, since complete annihilation of the ability to perceive can really be achieved only through the incapability of the mechanisms of the model to function, i.e. death.
(This is, of course, based on the premise that cessation of neurological activity results in the end of perception; this premise may be flawed, as it does not account for the other realities composing Existence. Nonetheless, current knowledge is current ha, and I'm no time traveler.)
fridgebuzz
Bluelighter
Haha OP, yeah, scary as hell to turn around and suddenly realize you're gone. It's BAM! WHAT'S GOING ON!?!? I DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS!! Sneaks right up on you, but I'm convinced it's always there, the drug just helps you become aware of its presence. It's like you turn around and look at yourself, but what's looking at who?
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
an ego is the word we use to describe our sense of self, some people have clearly defined selfs and others are more volatile, most people dont think of an ego in the same way as freud (and subscribing to his innaccurate and coked up beliefs about weird incest perversion).
get with the mass thought- the ego is what you believe you are, self esteem is how you feel, the disparity between these is what triggers personality problems
get with the mass thought- the ego is what you believe you are, self esteem is how you feel, the disparity between these is what triggers personality problems
SpecialK_
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
- Messages
- 3,531
I'm not entirely sure on my opinion of ego, but this is a fantastic post to get the mindset across before tripping. These thoughts alone will result in avoiding many bad trips.
Always important to remember that you are on a drug and that it's a fun experience, otherwise you wont feel like you're on a drug and it wont be a fun experience.
Darksidesam
Bluelight Crew
I accepted death in a trip.
what is this? what does it mean ?
(Dxm)
what is this? what does it mean ?
(Dxm)