Worried about health effects of methoxetamine - could use some reassurance.

[Transcendence]

Okay, so I'm a dumbass for taking an untested chemical thats been around for barely a year. Couldn't agree more. I had fun while it lasted I guess.

I've used methoxetamine somewhat heavily for roughly a month. I estimate I've gone through between 2-3g in 30 days. I stopped taking it about a week ago. Within the last week I've noticed disturbing symptoms:

Visual disturbances - immobile objects seem to be swaying or slowly expanding. My depth perception seems to be off.

Auditory hallucinations - I hear sounds that either shouldn't be there, or seem to be coming from the wrong direction.

Time dilation - 3 hours seems like 10 minutes. 1 hour seems like 4.

dysphasia - I don't have any cognitive dysfunction. I think I can express myself in speech and writing as well as ever. But I seem to be developing an OCD like tendency to involuntarily repeat words or short phrases multiple times. I even find myself typing the same word multiple times without realizing it! Sometimes I'll read a sentence or word and it'll temporarily mean something completely different than what it should.

Strong euphoria completely out of the blue. Right now for instance, I have a headache that feels GOOD. I've never experienced this before. I'm not on any drugs nor have I taken any in the last few days.

Personality disorders - similar to BPD. I'll quickly alternate between idolizing and demonizing myself, often within a few minutes. I find myself thinking in black and white terms and unable to find a middle ground. I'm unable to judge whether something is directed at me or not, and I'll feel personally offended by statements directed at others. I'll start laughing for no apparent reason. I seem to be frequently misreading and misjudging other people's sentiments - like I've lost the ability to differentiate between humor, sarcasm, seriousness, etc. I'll alternate between being angry, sad, paranoid, scared, and affable within a few minutes.

Weight Loss - I've lost about 20 pounds in the last month. WTF. Maybe I haven't been eating quite as much but I sure haven't been starving myself.

Has anyone else noticed these symptoms after stopping methoxetamine use? Did they go away following prolonged abstinence?

Some causal possibilities:

1) Direct result of methoxetamine. I kind of doubt this one because I think other people here would have noticed this - there are many people here who have used this much more than I have.

2) Result of impurities in synth - Maybe. My vendor has a very good reputation though, and his product is of very high quality.

3) Frontal-temporal brain tumor?

4)Anxiety causing me to connect unrelated phenomena.

 

[NoidDroid]

Was Methoxetamine the only drug you have ever taken alot of?

I have almost all of those symptoms for a good few years and this was before i had even heard of RC's.

I had always thought too much cannabis and shrooms was the cause. Perma-Fried.

Oh right reassurence... i think you perhaps already had most of these problems but drug use has made you aware of them moreso. But im no psychologist just my two "cents".

 

[Transcendence]

I've been a polydrug user for about 5 years. I've tried just about everything, but I never used any substance with regularity besides cannabis. Two summers ago I went on a mini 2C binge (2CC, 2CE, 2CI, 2CT7). Last winter I ate up a gram of JWH-something or other (I was also on several benzos this winter so can't remember). Ive used LSD, DOB, Mescaline, Shrooms, DMT, LSA, DXM, ketamine, nitrous. Various opiates, various stimulants.

Hahahaha, I'm a lost cause.

The problem is all of these symptoms could have been there for a while and I'm just paying close attention to them now for whatever reason. But I really started noticing them in tandem within the last month - especially the personality/speech disorders.

I'm not freaking out over this. What's done is done. All I can do is eat healthy and abstain from drugs. I guess I should see my doctor but I almost don't want to. If I have brain damage from drugs then theres fuck all he can do. If I have a brain tumor I'm proly fucked anyway so I should just enjoy the moment.

 

[wayab]

those visual disturbances don't seem as something to worry about. the time dilation thing for me at least was present from since i can remember much before i tried whatever drug. time is consider a illusion by some and might as well be :D
personally ive been trough 3-4g of mxe in 24h(stupid i guess but non the less one of the best things happened to me ever ) with no problems apart from the 1 week mega afterglow haha

 

[OpioidFreud]

The biggest health risk is to your bladder.

The idea behind the synthesis of this ket analogue according to M in "Interview with a ketamine chemist" was to create a ketamine substitute and avoid the risks of ulcerative cystosis associated with the build of large amounts ketamine & ketamine like metabolites by creating a ketamine analogue active at smaller dosages than are used with ketamine.

The problem herein lies within those wrecklessly using methoxetamine in large dosages and/or frequently using (allowing metabolites to build up faster than they can be excreted) as I have been commonly been reading.

I also strongly beleive that it is this wreckless behavior that is going to ruin it for everyone because someone is going to end up having a bad trip (already read a few involving foolish consumption of megadoses) and doing something crazy in or out of public that attracts media attention to the substance. Either that or a few more deaths associated with dangerous combinations like the one that happened in sweden.

I'd also like to note that when I was 16 I had picked up a heavy habit of using DXM daily for about a month (in the 300-600mg range typically, but the last one was with delsym ER and was 1250mg) after which I began experiencing the dysphasia and personality disorders almost to a cue in relation to your description. Also the DXM gave me slight HPPD (I have transparent static vision)

 

[Transcendence]

I can't say I regret taking MXE. I feel less depressed than I have in recent memory.

I've had visual disturbances since I was a kid. Maybe not quite like this, but whatevs. Same with minor auditory hallucinations. The dysphasia might just be a result of fatigue/stress from classes. Same with weight loss. Time dilation is universal (although it really does seem alarmingly bad lately). The artificially elevated mood borders on mania so it's sort of scary, but it sure as fuck beats depression.

Yeah, the only thing that's really starting to bother me is the BPD. To be honest though, I think I was set up for it anyway. Dissociatives seem particularly good at encouraging BPD though, so it's time for a break. I'm not completely psychotic yet, so I might as well cash in my chips.

The prospect of bladder damage doesn't excite me but I know I'm not even close to that. I'm fairly sure ket addicts use several grams daily for many months before seeing serious damage.

My use of methoxetamine might be irresponsible on a personal health level, but I don't know if I'd characterize it as wreckless. I never did more than 40-50mg at once, and even that was only when tolerance had built. I can definitely see the danger though: unlike ketamine, methoxetamine seems to mostly leave your motor skills intact. I would never be able to leave the house on a k-hole, but I can see myself doing some wutang shit on an m-hole.

 

[sekio]

The biggest problem with repeated usage of methoxetamine is that you are repeatedly using a dissociative drug akin to DXM or PCP. You will run the risk of mania and general delusional thinking simply because of the nature of the drugs and their actions on reward pathways.

MXE seems to be more of a "stimulant dissociative" akin to a NMDA antagonist plus a dopaminergic stimulant. I think you can treat dosing MXE the same as dosing PCP (due to the duration) - do it infrequently and avoid daily usage. Overusage of NMDA antagonistic drugs is known to induce pseudoschizophrenic symptoms - aphasia, memory loss, mood swings, delusional thinking, etc - and the dopaminergic/"opioid" edge on MXE does not make the mental effects any more mild (I'm sure you can look up the effects of dopaminergic drug abuse - needless to say, wild "bipolar" mood swings are one of them).

So to answer your wild guesses at causation:
1. This is the most likely, because though you haven't heard of MXE causing symptoms like this (on this forum), it's a known condition and has happened to others before on dissociative drugs of all sorts. DXM users get it, Ketamine users get it, wet smokers get it, and I bet good money MXE would cause it too. (Digresion: fastandbulbous, I believe, had a very ... interesting ... 3-MeO-PCE (des-keto-MXE) career, ending in the loony bin. Dissociatives are no joke.)
2. Unlikely, unless the synthesis precursors are also dissociatives.
3. Trememndously unlikely unless you have MRI/CT evidence or some other comorbidity.
4. While this is a perfectly reasonable causation in many scenarios (psychosomatic reactions), I think falling back on it is wishful thinking.

 

[Transcendence]

Am I right in thinking that these pseudoschizophrenic symptoms are probably a result of the rewiring of limbic reward pathways in the brain, rather than any notable neurotoxicity? I've read reports of PCP neurotoxicity, but I've always filed them with the spurious claims of Olney's lesions caused by other arylhexamines (i.e. completely unfounded in primates).

I do worry about possibly neurotoxicity of MXE for other reasons though; it seems to suppress breathing much more than ketamine. I've read reports of blue lips similar to that caused by nitrous abuse. I didn't notice this myself, but I have no way of measuring by blood oxygen level so....

 

[sekio]

I think the problem is less complex than "rewiring". It's highly typical of a dopamine excess induced by DRI (dopamine reuptake inhibitors) to induce weight loss, bipolar-like symptoms (esp. mania, hypersexuality, restlessness) and "tweaky" behaviour. Doubly so in high doses. Once you cease using methoxetamine regularly, the symptoms will most likely dissipate once the drug is entirely metabolized and cleared from your system. How long that takes is anyone's guess - the metabolic paramaters and receptor affinities of methoxetamine are yet unstudied.

I'd put money on blue lips being caused by vasoconstriction more than anything else.

 

[the toad]

Crap... I'm using about 300-500mg daily... for the past 2-3months... might be time for a lil break... but aside from the times I take a whopper I haven't had any issues... the issues I had at high doses were along the lines of being in a completely different world while still being fully conscious and driving and such but I've come up with ways to prevent these issues in the future...

 

[Ismene]

Pointless worrying about it now isn't it. If you are worried then stop taking it. If you're still in classes you're probably best off giving your brain a chance to develop for a while without drugs anyway.

This is the most likely, because though you haven't heard of MXE causing symptoms like this

But he must've heard of other recreational drugs causing symptoms like this. And obviously, when you're worried you've got brain damage you start seeing it at every turn. There's a famous story when electricity pylons were rumoured to cause brain damage - an entire town living under an electricity pylon started noting memory loss, strange mental problems, headaches etc. Finally in desperation they contacted the electricity company - it turned out the pylon hadn't even been turned on for five years.

 

[wayab]

hahah like this 90-something year old guy who lived in my mothers village and used to smoke like 30-40 cigarettes a day - when people asked him how come he doesn't have any health issues he said "when i started smoking nobody knew it was bad for you"

 

[the toad]

Heal the mind... the body will follow...

 

[lynx2051]

Personality disorders - similar to BPD. I'll quickly alternate between idolizing and demonizing myself, often within a few minutes. I find myself thinking in black and white terms and unable to find a middle ground. I'm unable to judge whether something is directed at me or not, and I'll feel personally offended by statements directed at others. I'll start laughing for no apparent reason. I seem to be frequently misreading and misjudging other people's sentiments - like I've lost the ability to differentiate between humor, sarcasm, seriousness, etc. I'll alternate between being angry, sad, paranoid, scared, and affable within a few minutes.

That pretty much describes me since I was at school. Have you had any pain in your kidney area? It's really hard to give up I didn't take any for 3 days and then I thought "In two months the ban will be coming in soon so I may as well make the most of it"!

 

[Styrofoam Jones]

I really, really wouldn't start worrying at this point. Give the MXE a rest for a few months and see where you are then. Binges can do weird things, and sometimes all you need is a break. Try to stop associating your "problems" with worry and anxiety and perhaps you may stop noticing them.

I have permanent HPPD as well as derealization and panic disorder from a bit of a 2C-E binge around this time last year. I don't mean "oh I think I saw something breathe" HPPD, I mean light pattern overlays everywhere and oily, rainbowy tracers and auras around every object and at all times HPPD. For four months the derealization was near constant. It felt like I'd stepped back from or "zoomed out" of reality as if it were a movie on a screen that I had been sitting way too close to my entire life. My body was still in the "real world", but my "soul" felt indescribably far away, as if I were now observing my life from higher, terrifyingly lonely and unfathomable dimension. My own house felt like the surface of another planet, like some strange alien world I'd only vaguely heard about or seen in pictures. It was like being stuck in a bad trip for four months straight, with visuals and all. An absolute hell. I did not feel like a part of reality in any sense, and in fact it felt like reality was literally falling apart around me. The things that I had just recently placed so much value in, my body, my identity, my memories, my family, even my own thoughts as I had them now seemed loose and fake. There was absolutely no reality to ground myself in and I questioned everything at all times. It was the first and only time I have ever legitimately feared for my sanity. On top of this, the panic disorder made me feel like I was going to die every day. And while dying never used to scare me (aside from the pain of it), it terrified me in this state, because the things I once thought I knew about death no longer seemed to hold any logical value. The idea of hell seemed very, very real, and on one particularly bad night I was absolutely sure I was already there. The HPPD seems here to stay, but thankfully, the derealization only surfaces during panic attacks now, which I've gotten under control for the most part.

This is all to say, drugs can certainly have MAJOR effects on your sober mind. I felt like I had gone "deeper" during this time (a 6-8 month break from all drugs) than I have during 80% of my trips. I was absolutely FUCKED. I had entered a state that I had never imagined a sober mind to be capable of. But, while the human mind and body do have their breaking points, they are incredibly resilient things. Just give the MXE a rest, stop worrying, and keep yourself busy with things that you enjoy in life. It will get better. If, in 3-6 months, the problems persist and you truly feel like you've done right so far, then you can start worrying and taking additional steps like meditation, therapy, etc.

 

[bluedolphin]

I've used estimated 40-50g MXE in the last 7-8 months.

Only symptom I have upon cessation (I usually spend a few days or a week off in between stashes) is a bit lower energy and motivation... probably because I have been used to the extra energy, motivation and uplift of mood that MXE gives.

I find it a waste of material to try to achieve fully dissociative states. But 20-40mg lines throughout the day, spaced a few hours apart, have kept me a happy camper for quite some time and nobody has suspected that I'm "on drugs".

So, comparing my use to yours, I find it highly unusual that you are experiencing all these negative effects after only using 2-3 grams in 1 month time. Either way I would not be concerned about this being something that will last long, perhaps some people are more sensitive to "withdrawl" from MXE than others.

Regarding MXE and it's potential for psychosis compared to Ketamine, DXM, PCP... in my experience it's much, much less. There's no way I would have continued using MXE for 8 months if it had psychotic effects on me. Ketamine on the other hand practically made me schizo. DXM I feel is fairly benign in terms of this. And PCP is obviously notorious for causing psychosis.

Probably the biggest concern with consistent use of MXE is that you will be blocking reuptake of dopamine for a long time and it may take some time (probably not long) for your brain to return to normal dopamine-related function.

 

[suckerbunnie]

Regarding MXE and it's potential for psychosis compared to Ketamine, DXM, PCP... in my experience it's much, much less.

Bollocks! It is quite apparent to me that methoxetamine is far more conducive to psychosis than ketamine or dxm, though much less psychologically addictive than either, particularly the K.

 

[sekio]

I think methoxetamine is overall more dopaminergic than ketamine and dxm - this explains the increased redosing, "warmth"/euphoria/"opiate" effects and the increased potential for e.g. delusional thinking and mania. Already I've seen people claiming mxe makes them feel "godlike"... I think MXE is just as good a psychotogen as PCP.

* not actual opiate effects

 

[Darksidesam]

Obviously. MXE is still a RC and its not known the effects from it yet. Such and Such.
But we know its compared a lot to ketamine.

What we do know from heavy ketamine users is that, they have encountered neurological problems and disorders, But.
They have stopped used for several months and there have been reports that they have made a full recovery mentally (Not bladder wise though)

You also have to remember how much more Potent this stuff is too, It might take twice as long for you to heal up mentally.
But then again you have used a lot of other substances before.
Main point is to stop MXE use Completely.

Go from there.

 

[bluedolphin]

Bollocks! It is quite apparent to me that methoxetamine is far more conducive to psychosis than ketamine or dxm, though much less psychologically addictive than either, particularly the K.

I have to disagree. Having abused the hell out of Ketamine for 2 years straight (and used in moderation for years before that), at least during those last 2 years of abuse I started believing all kinds of crazy shit, had some schizophrenic breaks, just really really bad mental health caused by Ketamine.

Having used MXE for the last 8 months hasn't really affected my sanity one way or another. Just increased my mood and energy which makes me feel more "sane" I guess. My job performance actually improved, got a raise for stepping up my work.

It is the false realizations (mostly false) that come to mind from Ketamine and to some extent DXM that cause schizo-affective thought and behavior in a lot of moderate or heavy users. MXE has only ever given me mild, positive, and real-world-grounded realizations such as: 1) exercise more, 2) make the most of today, 3) maybe I should reconnect with some friends I haven't talked to in a while

Those kinds of subtle realizations are not the makings of psychosis. If by psychosis you are simply referring to feelings of grandeur, "I am Christ", and general ego inflation. Well, Ketamine made me think those things. Thoughts like that never crossed my mind on MXE.

It could be argued that years of DXM use, then really heavy Ketamine abuse (although I stopped that for about 5 months before trying MXE) could make me tolerant to the more dissociative effects of MXE.

I actually haven't found MXE to be much more than a clean feeling antidepressant with a much welcomed side effect profile -- as in, barely any side effects to speak of.

But it is also true that I can do a line like this ================= and go out to a bar or social setting and actually feel more social. The only dissociation I notice is from a lot of anxiety, fear of social interaction, lethargy.

That said, if MXE is causing you psychosis, you should probably discontinue use.