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New South Australian laws to stop gang members driving

drug_mentor i totally understand what you are saying and i definitely agree with you about the association laws being draconian and discriminatory.
I think you have misunderstood what I'm saying.... S.A premier Mike Rann has been trying to put these laws into place for the last few years which were solely aimed at Adelaide motorcycle clubs. The government here have had enough of them, and its only because of the bikies activities that these laws were even thought of ........Hence why i said in my last post
They had a great thing here and fueled by their own greed once again have fucked it up for everybody else.....nice work ...NOT!!!
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I hope that explains were I'm coming from I only agree with these laws in the case of shutting down bikie gangs so they dont have the monopoly of the states drug industry. However i do understand that it has screwed it up for anyone else they decide is gang related which is fucked. If you are looking for someone to blame, DONT blame the government, blame the bikies for getting so out of control that the government had to step in and make harsh decisions.


Mr Ibis - all to hard, cant be bothered trying to explain the intricacies of Adelaide's organized crime activities. Sorry... you are wrong

Ok I've had more than my 2 cents worth on this topic, and have probably made lots of enemies for speaking my mind :( so be it

That is all ........................*moves back into the corner to lurk*
 
Ravin90s said:
However i do understand that it has screwed it up for anyone else they decide is gang related which is fucked. If you are looking for someone to blame, DONT blame the government, blame the bikies for getting so out of control that the government had to step in and make harsh decisions.
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Don't blame the government? The big issue has nothing to do with bikies and all to do with the government. The government has changed the law to make it legal for cops to ban people from certain places, have their driver licences and other licences revoked, and be prevented from using electronic media, for no reason except that they are linked with people the cops don't like. Sure, for now it's focused on bikies, which you don't care about, because you hate bikies. But this is a slippery slope that could mean 'bikies' being subsituted with anything, 'drug users' for instance. The cops being able to do this to anyone they choose is not good news for anyone.
 
^ exactly, only a matter of time before any gathering in public of three or more people is deemed an "unlawful assembly" and those gathered have their licences and phones confiscated... and then those who are friends of those participating in said gathering will have their licences and phones confiscated...

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In all seriousness though, I agree with you footsy, this legislation leaves a lot of room for abuse and deprivation of liberties.
 
Yeah these laws always start out with a specific target group, but once they're instituted and they become normal practice, it's not long before the cops start applying it to anybody they don't like.
 
^ Exactly. That's what I meant with my post above with the famous quote by Martin Niemöller; they introduce the laws to target a specific group that will have the majority of the public supporting the measures, and then later use those same laws against other groups that are not in favor with law enforcement. Perhaps they expand the scope of 'criminal organization' to include a small group of people involved in drug use and distribution among themselves. Then perhaps expand it to drug users in general. And these measures are very harsh; no use of electronic media sounds very broad and very vague to me and I hope that the first lawyer having to defend their client against these laws challenges that as well as the other parts of the 'package'.
 
Ravin90s said:
Mr Ibis - all to hard, cant be bothered trying to explain the intricacies of Adelaide's organized crime activities. Sorry... you are wrong

Ok I've had more than my 2 cents worth on this topic, and have probably made lots of enemies for speaking my mind :( so be it

That is all ........................*moves back into the corner to lurk*
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How do you figure i'm wrong? What do you know of my experience in or around organized crime?

Bikies are just a low-ranking off-shoot of organized crime, designed in a way that members gain 'protection' from being members, and the public are afraid to persecute them for being members. This is not all that different to say european and spanish organized crime, except the scope we look at for that is much broader, much less 'showy', and ideally better for the outlying communities - but this doesn't exclude it from being a problem.

Speaking your mind isn't the problem, not looking at the issue from a broader scope than to say: "Oh I fucking hate bikies, they shoot eachother and rob people". What differentiates them from say the Melbourne underworld crews of the last decade, shooting people - some innocents by accident in place of targets. This shit happens.

As drug users, it's not that we have to be supportive of the ill effects of organized crime, but for the least part probably should turn a blind eye to it if we want to continue our ability to score.

It's also not fair to blame crime for the quality dropping. This is a result of a combination of new gangs controlling the local scenes, law enforcement achieving their goals, and idiots willing to pay far too much for crap.

Whilst i'm not about to incriminate my self with any evidence to back up my claims - anyone who is anyone can see my case in point.
 
Fuck that Mr Ibis, the only reason there is a connection is that as a drug user you are by definition a criminal. It doesn't matter whether you wear a patch on your back or a sharp Italian suit, if you make a living through crime and human suffering you deserve everything you sow. I have stood as a ten year old and watched a gang member being beaten near to death with a baseball bat before my dad and his mates chased the gang members into a van. My dad was then attacked with a machete. There is no such thing as an honourable criminal. My family moved when grandmothers were being raped as part of their initiation. They are scum and deserved to be crushed. I'll assure you I'll have no problem sourcing without their help.

Having said all that, the government should use the current laws to crush them. Vague "gang" laws are scary for every law abiding citizen let alone people who live a life of crime. Like I alluded to earlier most criminals are not stupid, how hard is it to not call yourself a "gang", and change your business plan to become more a group of lone operators. Seems to me to be lazy law enforcement.
 
Your dad intervened in a gang battle? that's pretty stupid.

For starters these laws are making out like our gang issue is something like the US, it's not.

Sourcing is going to take gangs and criminal activity to do either way. Even if you order from some chinese vendor or european vendor you're only putting money in the pockets of individuals involved in the same sorta shit as "a guy" at a nightclub.

Even as a lone op. one has to have connections, and in this way, syndicates develop - which quietly become 'gangs' over time as people get more tight-knit and rifts develop between members of the syndicate. In this way everyone involved in drugs is a gang member of some sort - another part of the problem. Be it they're the end user, the distributor, the kingpin or the guy lagging them in to get his sentence reduced.

And i'll second a notion that even if you can score off 'a friend', chances are where those drugs originated from involved some form of organized crime.

Also i'll note that in saying all this, im only speaking from experience in the field.
 
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I was playing about 5 metre away from a guy on his bike who was watching my dad play cricket when a van pulled up and a group jumped him. What would you do? 22 guys grabbed stumps and cricket bats and saved the guys life. Lets just say after that we were well protected by a lot of "friends" . Growing up the mates I knew who ended up in gangs were more often than not pussies who weren't smart enough to survive on their own. Nothing tough when you need your mates to fight your battles for you. Skinny kid buys a bike and gets into steroids then gets a tattoo. Nothing to aspire to in my opinion.
 
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I was about to post first they came quote from Martin Niemöller, Mr B. beat me to it.

These laws are ridiculously broad, anyone supporting them needs their heads checked.
 
just remember that, broadly speaking, if you don't care about organised crime or it increasing then you cannot use the argument (for legalisation of illicit substances) that legalisation would eliminate drug based organised crime and their revenue and therefore be a positive for society (yes there are other arguments for it but that is a major one you see around).
 
^ I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that MrIbis is saying that given the present reality of the role of organised crime in getting us many of our substances, they are a necessary evil. I doubt there are many who would rather get their drugs through criminal organisations than legal means if it were available (and obviously without repercussions or legal issues) but that's just the way things are :\
 
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