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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
4 Fluoro-Cocaine
- Thread starter jackdaw
- Start date
PetersKeys
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2009
- Messages
- 74
Dimethocaine mix very well with 4FC.
Tried both. Combo is much better than coke itself
dimethocain looks interesting.
(-)-2-β-Carbomethoxy-3-β-(4-fluorophenyl)tropane (β-CFT, WIN 35,428) looks really interesting to me.
It is around 3-10x more potent than cocaine and lasts around 7 times longer based on animal studies. Its called CFT for short
The most powerful analog I could find was WF-23. 2β-Propanoyl-3β-(2-naphthyl)-tropane or WF-23 is a cocaine analogue. It is 500-800 times more potent than cocaine at both dopamine and serotonin transporters.
Not much research on it thoughI have looked, does anyone know if there is any analytical data out there that suggests that the stuff being called 4-fluorococaine is indeed 4-fluorococaine. (ie 4-fluorobenzoyl ecognine methyl ester) rather than being 4-fluorotropacocaine????
Any mass spectrum would do to confirm.
of course 4-fluorococaine would hydrolyse to 4-fluorobenzoyl ecogonine, and would also give the disitinctive reactions based on the methyl ester as cocaine itself does.
another minor point the real 4-fluorocococaine is explicity illegal in the UK as it is a derivative of ecogonine, so analytical work would have to be done under a home office license.
4-fluorotropacocaine is not.
the forensic literature suggests that the stuff in circulation is most likely the tropacocaine derivative
Aeon Psyche
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,146
i can't say i enjoyed 4-fluoro-tropa-cocaine a whole lot..still curious about these others..4-FC, like most current cocaine analogs, is inferior recreationally to plain old cocaine. Weaker stimulation, a less intense overall high, and being no easier to synth than coke is to obtain make it pointless today. I think there was talk in those "stimulants of the future" threads about future cocaine analogs, and the general consensus seemed to be that methylphenidate analogs would be a better realm to pursue.
lysergication
Bluelighter
And it is a lot more painful to snort...I was very disapointed. It's almost more sedative than stimulant.
xaenima
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2009
- Messages
- 41
Thanks for this. I was gonna try it, but I shall probably avoid as I've read something along these lines elsewhere. I'm not a sedative-loving kinda guy.
synergistic.affect
Greenlighter
Dimethocaine mix very well with 4FC.
Tried both. Combo is much better than coke itself
Really? well, first i'd like to inquire as to where you live, but only to determine the credibility of your standard for comparison for cocaine. But since i don't think i can ask that outright, I will instead, fish for the general backround info that i seek with this quirky and concise recovery move: "Hey Hey there my sweet, did you end up finding that...um...y'kno baby? the thing with the bzzz bzzz" -giggle -giggle and "whirrrr whirrrrr" -ahhhh,ahh *gasp* "FARumpffff...Bing a ping a shhhhh", y'kno, that thing you liked so much...that same thing that i must've left over your house the other night?"... "You don't what?!?"... "You don't know where it is??? Well, i guess i'll make myself comfortable while you search, and since it looks like i'm gonna be staying a while, i gotta ask ya, Hows the coke where your living? Is the quality consistant? etc " And in that transaction, i ascertain all of the pertinent info i need to know.
Now i can only assume that the answer to that question is "ummm, yeah our coke's pretty good. But this one time yo, we had some fiiiiire that one time. remember? when we had that fire shit?? when was that?...No, it wasn't no 4 years ago", or "It ain't fish scale yo but the bags are strait" and thats fine. That's the way it is in most places. To be honest, I don't even really like coke that much, but when i do it's retarted, it'll freeze your anscestors, it'll stall the ocean's conveyor, whew! thats some shit. But most common by FAR the quality of coke varies tremendously by region, state, county, town, school, social circle, economic status, parishes, and age.
So when you say "[this]Combo is much better than coke itself", am i to believe that this DMC and 4FC combination will just blow that cocaine lined, Peruvian cargo ship right out of the water? whos cocaine? low grade? Mid, High? Whats different?
Although the infrequent times i mix and mingle with coke it is often of high quality due to my(see above): state, town, circle, etc (NY tri-state area); I do feel an urge to try this combo you speak so highly of. If it is great, i will powder my wig and mirkin collection with it. In the absence of wonder, i give away that which i have no desire to finish; leaving this venture every bit as akward and foolhardy as i began. But that has yet to be decided:
my questions for YOU, my friend, are as follows:
1 did you mix the two powders together homogeneously?, and if so, to what ratio
a. if not, did u stagger insufflating the powders, alternating?
2 What weight of substance or substances do you prepare for yourself for a long night of partying?
3. How much do you end that night with? like we dont kno the answer...
4.what sized lines do you cut on average? what about the first few?
5. And perhaps most importantly,What, if any, problems or side effects did you experience from the combo?
I know that this is a lot to ask, but i would truly appreciate it if you get a chance. I would definately like to trythis combo if you can explain a bit of what to expect...i mean, we do have a reference point.
Thank you so much and the very best to you! if you need motivation, just dabble in some sort of topical numbing agent first, then consult any of those candycaines
sekio
Bluelight Crew
4-fluorocoaine is just inferior to cocaine and no amount of crappy dimethocaine will change that.
I have my doubts that anything on the market is 4-fluorocoaine anyway. Ecoginine and friends are decomposition products of both cocaine and 4-FC and they are controlled substances almost everywhere.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Someone bumped this thread just when I was looking into 4-FC again. Apparently, it is more serotonergic than cocaine (the individual commenting that it was 'sedating' makes sense in that capacity).
What I noticed of import is that CFT / WIN 35428, which is the litmus test for a "positive reinforcer" among cocaine analogs (because it is the closest to cocaine, when adjusted for potency, without having the same cardiotoxic profile) is basically the phenyltropane variant of 4-FC (that is: 4-FC is the benzoyloxytropane of CFT).
Apparently however, 4-FC gets greater affinity for the serotonin transporter, much in the way that another ring, a naphthyl, makes methylphenidate more selective for serotonin.
A transesterification of the methyl to an ethyl, as in cocaethylene, makes cocaine less selective for serotonin & norepinephrine (which is odd to me, seeing as how NE & DAT usually go together at the exception of SERT) and more for DAT. I would be curious to add that change to 4-FC and see what the outcome is. Infact, for kicks I also added the 2'-hydroxy and drew this, which I was going to add to the random molecular drawing thread, but as I returned here after making it, this thread was bumped like it was reading my mind:
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Throw a 2' acetyl group on there just for the sake of masking the phenol and you'll have a cocaine analog worth marketing
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Throw a 2' acetyl group on there just for the sake of masking the phenol and you'll have a cocaine analog worth marketing
Instead of the hydroxy eh? Like the image you showed me in the other thread hmmm. Thanks for the input
Might it be too potent for practical purposes? I wonder what it's NET affinity is. Doesn't somebody know of a ChemDraw type program that gives predicted affinities?Last edited:Deleted member 170540
Bluelight Crew
It's difficult to make even a rough prediction of affinities of a particular molecule from the structure alone. Drug design is a process of trial and error and educated guesses about which molecules might be active.
To calculate the affinities of some molecule you'd also need to know the exact structure of the receptor/transporter proteins and then perform a quantum chemical calculation about the receptor-ligand interaction. That would require far too much computing power to be practical.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Crystallographic imaging of DAT has never been made from what I've read, which would hinder perfect prediction. Yet I thought there were some programs which at least attempted estimated guesses...
As for that cocaine analog; possibly also modify the nitrogen on the tropane ring. The N-modified with SO2NCO seems to have low values, and may interact with other SAR in interesting ways.I'm pretty sure that to simulate receptor binding, you would need something on the scale of folding@home. Predicting binding affinities is basically the same problem as protein folding.
It may or may not be possible to create some simplified model to get an approximation without needing a supercomputer. If it exists, I'd like to read about it.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
The thing that's hindering binding/docking studies is the lack of high-accuracy receptor and transporter protiens.
