What does peace require?

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

My father used to have a quote by Pope John Paul II on a bumper sticker on his car:
"If you want peace, work for justice."

I never used to understand this, and was a little embarrassed of this sticker as a kid. It seemed like a truism to me. I guess it's that I thought of peace and justice as synonymous.

The thing is, I still do see peace and justice as synonymous. It's just now, I understand the wisdom behind this statement, because I see how few people realize it. It's very striking to me how in the Semetic languages, 'peace' and 'submission' come from the same root. Indeed, to many people, peace needs not justice, but merely submission, merely everyone knowing their place and staying in it, no matter their motivations for doing so.

So what do you think true and durable peace requires? What is the absolute minimum that any group of people requires in order to keep the number of people doing harm to each other to an absolute minimum? (I would include, as part of this, a minimum of people who are self-destructive because they are not at peace with themselves.)

 

[Jabberwocky]

this is subsumed by justice i guess, but i think an important thing is personal freedom. i don't think people ever really try to take things they don't feel that on some level they deserve, i.e. what they should have if they are in some sense truly free. i guess a large reason i say this is because i have never come across an instance of war without oppression. obviously in a truly free society, people are free to take what they don't deserve from others, so it would need to be some sort of ability to exercise freedom without oppressing others, which i guess could be a definition of justice....

 

[HeWhoHowls]

You pretty much have it right there.
Personal responsibility n liberty.
Self governing society that has the common sense n desire to cooperate.

 

[Nagelfar]

t's very striking to me how in the Semetic languages, 'peace' and 'submission' come from the same root. Indeed, to many people, peace needs not justice, but merely submission, merely everyone knowing their place and staying in it, no matter their motivations for doing so.

Submission is not overtly negative. The most sublimated, non-zealotry, forms of Islam are proud of its meaning as such.

Peace is submission of oneself, justice is submission of others. The pursuit of peace can be ignorance, the pursuit of justice can be tyranny. Organization, order, structure, law & religion all require submissive relation to something beyond what is immediate and at hand.

 

[Kewlwip]

There will always be a few men who seek to bend others to their will and commit evil to enrich themselves, always. It isn't until the masses resist them completely that peace can exist. That cannot occur until the world experiences widespread prosperity and education for all.

 

[A Blind Guy]

peace requires all men to agree on a wide range of topics.
men will never be able to agree on anything, let alone a lot of things.
peace will not exist.

 

[alasdairm]

disagreement and peace are hardly mutually exclusive...

alasdair

 

[A Blind Guy]

im not saying that people can't be peaceful and disagree. that is possible... for a few of us.

the vast majority of conflicts are caused by disagreement, though. like, war.

world peace cannot exist, i should say.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

im not saying that people can't be peaceful and disagree. that is possible... for a few of us.

the vast majority of conflicts are caused by disagreement, though. like, war.

world peace cannot exist, i should say.

I thnk we all figured that out without your input.
All we have to do is step outside to see it.
But I dnt thnk this thread is about focusing on the whole depressing reality that world piece cant be done.

 

[alasdairm]

sure, but it's not the disagreement which causes the strife. it's how the protagonists choose to respond.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

if you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

alasdair

 

[A Blind Guy]

I thnk we all figured that out without your input.
All we have to do is step outside to see it.
But I dnt thnk this thread is about focusing on the whole depressing reality that world piece cant be done.

*sigh*. peace requires smart, compassionate, open minded, understanding people.
this is not the majority population.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

There ya go.

 

[copelandia.]

if you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

alasdair

^this.

 

[Blennz]

i think it all comes down to really just learning to let go
to accept everything for what it is or how it is preconceptual to disfigurations of the mind
to just be happy with the moment that presents itself to us each moment a new.
To live in each moment and enjoy it for what it is rather then being caught up in past affairs of the ego that have allready came and gone
on the same note to enjoy now rather then worry about the future as it will just provide anxieties and if we are present each and every moment our future will sort itself out as it comes and be ready with whatever preparation that are required at the right times and if we are present we don't need to worry about possibilities of things going wrong that only develop from the worries taken place outside the mind in the first place.

 

[qwe]

@original post .. elimination of material scarcity.

 

[Pegasus]

^But that's impossible!

 

[superelephant]

Awareness.

 

[L2R]

sometimes i am truley unsure if we are simply nowhere near as civilised as we like to think of ourselves as.

@original post .. elimination of material scarcity.

^But that's impossible!

qwe's banking his entire nestegg on star trek replicator technology dropping sometime in the next week or so

 

[qwe]

^that's a bit of an exaggeration . when concerning the present day situation (working within this authoritarian hierarchy that our species has constructed) i see democratic socialism (or maybe social/libertarian anarchism, longer term) as the best collective paths to alleviate unnecessary suffering.

in the long term, though, you're right, i'm definitely a technoutopian. i recognize that we might fuck it all up, but (perhaps too optimistically) i hope the human species reacts to new technologies constructively.

an old technology, drugs, is still seen with absurd fear and misinformation, largely in order to keep that human hierarchy intact. but i'm gambling that technology will distribute power more equally, so that each person becomes more important, and our system of laws and governance changes to a hopefully more rational level.

sometimes i am truley unsure if we are simply nowhere near as civilised as we like to think of ourselves as.

out of luck, we are technomonkeys on an abundant planet. again out of luck, it's possible in these times to have a really fucking good time (as we speak, i am experiencing the bliss of hydrocodone and clonazepam and cannabis). it's an interesting time to live, and a lot depends on us as people.

incidentally, restructuring or eliminating that "species hierarchy" is the answer to the thread question, as well

technology has guided our social evolution (after our physical evolution became irrelevant to contmeporary human timescales), and we need to realize that technology is in our collective hands (and it's fundamentally important to who we are, where we came from, and where we're going).