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CE&P social thread: why do the people I disagree with hate freedom so much?

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Droppersneck said:
Taxes in essence are more government control. More government control is basically less freedom. I dont think my logic is flawed though I bet you will.
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So if more taxes is less freedom...

... less taxes is more freedom ...

... no taxes is the most freedom!

But no taxes means no government...

Wait, I think western philosophy has covered this before. Ah yes. Thomas Hobbes. Lived four centuries ago, give or take a bit. Hobbes actually agreed with you, and his reasoning makes sense. Without government, you have the freedom to do anything. So, for example, you have the freedom to find a bit of earth and throw some seeds in it. Later, I have the freedom to come along, uproot the plants, and use the fruit in a food fight, wasting it all. We both then have the freedom to starve in the coming winter.

Ah, freedom. Could there be anything grander?

Well, perhaps food in the winter. I'm rather fond of eating.
 
Escher's Waterfall said:
So if more taxes is less freedom...

... less taxes is more freedom ...

... no taxes is the most freedom!

But no taxes means no government...

Wait, I think western philosophy has covered this before. Ah yes. Thomas Hobbes. Lived four centuries ago, give or take a bit. Hobbes actually agreed with you, and his reasoning makes sense. Without government, you have the freedom to do anything. So, for example, you have the freedom to find a bit of earth and throw some seeds in it. Later, I have the freedom to come along, uproot the plants, and use the fruit in a food fight, wasting it all. We both then have the freedom to starve in the coming winter.

Ah, freedom. Could there be anything grander?

Well, perhaps food in the winter. I'm rather fond of eating.
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Im not saying I promote anarchism. You cant say the idea is without merit; look at England.
 
Droppersneck said:
Im not saying I promote anarchism. You cant say the idea is without merit; look at England.
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I actually do consider myself anarchist of sorts, in that I believe that those that run factories should own them and I do believe that the government is a coercive and illegitimate concentration of power. However, I don't believe in abolishing all forms of government at this point because the government is the only thing in our society that the public has any influence over. If it werent for the almost complete destruction of the labor movement in this country I may think otherwise.

What do you mean look at England? What about it?

Also, this is a joke thread. I believe Bear was trying to make fun of the simplistic and juvenile arguments that that so called "conservatives" often use. It wasnt a serious question and you did'nt get it which is why you got made fun of.
 
I've got to go with the Marquis de Sade on this one. No government, no laws, no prison.

It is a woman's imperative to defend herself from rapists. We shouldn't have any laws on our books to cover rape or murder or theft. It is up to each individual to defend themselves from other people. Therefore, we should disband all government all-together, by not paying any more taxes, and let each man and woman fend for themselves.

It is actually the logical conclusion to "less government," when taken to far enough of an extreme. Let the madmen rule the Earth, and rape and kill and steal from whoever they want, whenever they want. All in the name of "freedom". It is, after all, just another word for nothing left to lose.
 
Droppersneck said:
Taxes in essence are more government control. More government control is basically less freedom. I dont think my logic is flawed though I bet you will.
Click to expand...

How exactly do taxes equal government control? I hear this over and over but I never get an explaination. If you're single and making under $34k per year youre paying less than 15% in taxes. I don't see how this makes you any less free than if you were paying $0 in taxes and receiving no public services. I could understand if our taxes were going to the queen of England, but they're not.

On the other hand, if everything were privatized and there was no public property, there would be no freedom for most people and absolute freedom for those who owned property and wealth. All natural resources would be privately owned. Fire, health and security services would be privately owned, all education, military, land ect would be privately owned. Basicly the size of your bank account determines the extent of your freedom.
 
because we are utterly corrupt. :P
...
It is actually the logical conclusion to "less government," when taken to far enough of an extreme. Let the madmen rule the Earth, and rape and kill and steal from whoever they want, whenever they want. All in the name of "freedom". It is, after all, just another word for nothing left to lose.
Click to expand...

Every anarchist 18 or older disagrees with you. :P

ebola
 
it's funny that these republicans are all about decreasing government with the exception of their own campaigns to increase the number of government employees by one...

alasdair
 
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