Combining MG seeds with HBWR?

[HeavilySedated]

Hi.
I know that in the past I bashed LSA around for being somewhat of an inferior psychedelic compared to, let's say, LSD.
However, after having giving it another shot (12 HBWR seeds capped and downed) I realized that there is more to it after all. Sure, it ain't acid, but it has its virtues.

I was still kind of bummed though how the experience wasn't visual at all. Yes, things did get brighter, I noticed some visual flickering, and when I looked at the ground for like a minute, it suddenly seemed to be all wavy and moving. But those visuals were kind of subtle, and I had to really focus on them to notice. Sure, I get it, LSA is not about seeing crazy shit around. It's more about being half sedated - half energetic, awesomely euphoric, and getting those deep meditative thoughts.

After awhile I thought to myself - hey, maybe I should combine a dose of Argyreia nervosa seeds and Ipomoea tricolor seeds (Heavenly blue MG). I remember reading somewhere that MG is a bit more visual than HWBR, and besides, introducing the full range of the LSAs as they occur in nature to your brain could open up a whole new experience.

My question is, has anyone here ever tried it? Is there any health reason to avoid this combo?

 

[Solipsis]

I can't think of one, other than that the vasoconstriction effect of MG could be ever so slightly synergistic with HBWR because there may be a little different compounds in there just like the desirable effects could be ever so slightly synergistic but honestly I think both the pro's and cons are probably minimal.
Theoretically it could be compared to combining different sorts of Psilocybe mushrooms. It makes dosing a little more difficult and you will probably have a hard time distinguishing which effects are produced by which type or species. And the very good reason why they would be hard to distinguish is that most of the subjectively experienced differences in effect are probably mostly placebo i.e. from different appearance, different vibe you get from them, different facts you know about them, the different volume of Azurescens vs. Cubensis or MG vs. HBWR, etc.

So I'm not really moved in any considerable way by the idea, though it is more or less original to me.

 

[IamMe90]

if you want a visual experience from LSAs, I would just dose MGs by themselves. My 2 cents

 

[HeavilySedated]

I can't think of one, other than that the vasoconstriction effect of MG could be ever so slightly synergistic with HBWR because there may be a little different compounds in there just like the desirable effects could be ever so slightly synergistic but honestly I think both the pro's and cons are probably minimal.
Theoretically it could be compared to combining different sorts of Psilocybe mushrooms. It makes dosing a little more difficult and you will probably have a hard time distinguishing which effects are produced by which type or species. And the very good reason why they would be hard to distinguish is that most of the subjectively experienced differences in effect are probably mostly placebo i.e. from different appearance, different vibe you get from them, different facts you know about them, the different volume of Azurescens vs. Cubensis or MG vs. HBWR, etc.

So I'm not really moved in any considerable way by the idea, though it is more or less original to me.

AFAIK all species of Psilocybe mushrooms have the basic 4-HO-DMT chemical in them.
Both HBWR and MG contain many other lysergamide alkaloids besides the Ergine (LSA), and there's bound to be a difference between the sets of alkaloid those two carry.
To me it's very feasible that a combined dose of HBWR and MG will synergize interestingly. I just want to know if anyone else has tried it before I go on experimenting on myself here.

 

[greenmeanies]

also recall that the ratio of LSA to these other lysergamides will vary depending on the freshness of the seeds. someone recently reported that soft green "off the vine" was the most powerful trip he ever had with HBWR, so look into that.

 

[huolesoh]

perhaps try it and see !?

i think even mushrooms have other chemicals with unique psychoactive properties, but as solipsis said the difference could be negligable

but if you were to do it you could start low [just in case]

i used the erowid search function and a few people have done this before, have a read
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.cgi?S1=26&S2=38&C1=-1&Str=

one experience reads "The next day I couldnt concentrate on anything and for some reason I liked Gwen Stefani (open mind)" you have been warned! :D

another interesting feature of the report featuring mrs. stefani is he says he got melting visuals "when I look at my watch it looks like salvador Dalis watch, its melting and the hands are all crooked and time is going too fast." i always associated melting with more of an LSD-type hallucination

 

[HeavilySedated]

^^ I guess I'll just have to go for it. I'm kind of surprised this idea didn't occur to most other people.
I might also add for argument's sake, that clinical trials with synthetic LSA have found it to not be very psychedelic on its own. Clearly there're many chemicals involved in creating the HBWR or MG experience which have considerable weigh together with the LSA.

 

[Solipsis]

Mushrooms can contain different proportions of psilocin and psilocybin which probably mostly affect the pharmacokinetics and less or not the pharmacology itself. Also there are things like baeocystin in there which I believe is 4-PO-NMT, if anything it could modulate the effects of psilocin or modulate the pharmacokinetics. Really those kinetics could make quite a difference, I think it is what lies at the heart of why 4-AcO-DMT for instance is so different.

Anyway you are right that maybe it's all in the mind and the differences are mostly quantitative, that possibility should certainly not be dismissed.

If it is true that the composition of lysergic amide containing seeds can be pretty different and complex, then what may really boost the richness of trying this combination of MG + HBWR could be converting the LSA to LSH. Who knows, it could be that the other alkaloids together modulate the effect of LSH so nicely that it becomes noticeably different. At least more noticeable than without the conversion.

But perhaps to be able to say something useful about these differences you should only do this conversion after having tried the combination without converting. Perhaps jot down a mini survey for yourself, rating a few types of effect for the different preparations?

 

[HeavilySedated]

Mushrooms can contain different proportions of psilocin and psilocybin which probably mostly affect the pharmacokinetics and less or not the pharmacology itself. Also there are things like baeocystin in there which I believe is 4-PO-NMT, if anything it could modulate the effects of psilocin or modulate the pharmacokinetics. Really those kinetics could make quite a difference, I think it is what lies at the heart of why 4-AcO-DMT for instance is so different.

I don't mean to digress here, but IIRC Psilocybin (4-PO-DMT) is an inactive prodrug that metabolizes in vivo to become the psychoactive Psilocin (4-HO-DMT), making them essentially the same psychopharmaceutically wise.

 

[greenmeanies]

kinetics matters-- look at the addiction potential of oral opiates compared to IV.

amphetamine XR vs IR

DXM HBr vs polystirex

DMT IM vs smoked

cannabis oral vs smoked

 

[Solipsis]

I don't mean to digress here, but IIRC Psilocybin (4-PO-DMT) is an inactive prodrug that metabolizes in vivo to become the psychoactive Psilocin (4-HO-DMT), making them essentially the same psychopharmaceutically wise.

Learn about pharmacokinetics and read my post again, you will see that there is no real disagreement.

Even so, that psilocybin is itself inactive is not yet a proven fact. It is only a very likely theory. By that I do not mean that I don't subscribe to that theory so I don't feel any need to go on about it.