opiates and mental health

[anterrabae]

I realize that opiates will never bring a true sense of happiness, like emotions such as love do. But I choose using them for a fleeting good feeling than potentially harming myself or dwelling over past nightmares.

Like the OP said, perhaps you do have to be mentally ill to continually seek a good feeling that will only rebound depending on amount and duration of use. I guess I must be, to be using them again and again.

 

[anterrabae]

Yes, the science has moved on. But why, with more antidepressants on the market than ever before, is depression still so prevalent? I guess I just doubt their effectiveness having been on tens of different kinds for over a decade, in conjunction with therapy, when I think only time and experience really has helped me cope with it.

 

[anterrabae]

I don't know. The depression I experienced before ever using opiates was a lot more severe than quitting pills for a while. I've never used heroin, so I can't attest to that sort of withdrawal depression. I suppose that is what you were referring to.

 

[TheLostBoys]

Thats the most decieving part of opiates is when you're on them a while and you go from more motivated than average to less motivated then avg. And eventually you wind up sitting around unsure of why nothing in life really interests you anymore. I'm on an opiate right? The opiate obviously made me more ambitious when I started using it... so wtf is going on? Its the worst part of addiction. Take more, motivation comes back for a bit, then it flat lines even worse and you have even less motivation than before.

Its so weird that although you wouldn't consider opiates a poison they do have that type of effect on your body. Even a drug that makes you feel great, your body thinks its bad for you, and starts fighing the drug to bring your brain back to "normal". Its always been an appealing aspect of addiction to me. I can totally understand your body doing that with something that makes you ill, but something that gives you energy and makes me feel good? What body? Are you trying to tell me even though it feels good that its not good for me? lol.

I fucking hate opiate addiction. Love it but I hate it. It never changes it. Back and forth back and forth its the worst thing in the world to go through.

There are alot of people that have no motivation at all before trying opiates, let alone afterwards. If you dont feel like your worth anything & you're always depressed, I say give opiates a try, if youve tried so many SSRI's out there & they have made you worse because they just are used to control people emotions (placebo) somehow. I dont believe the SSRI B.S.

 

[anterrabae]

I don't believe in SSRIs either. I suppose I just take them 'cause I have since I was 16 and it makes my parents happy. A friend of mine is in methadone treatment, she's going to give me a few to try. I've been thinking about it, maybe it is what I need, even though my use is rather mild...I don't know. I just don't know.

 

[Bojangles69]

There are alot of people that have no motivation at all before trying opiates, let alone afterwards. If you dont feel like your worth anything & you're always depressed, I say give opiates a try, if youve tried so many SSRI's out there & they have made you worse because they just are used to control people emotions (placebo) somehow. I dont believe the SSRI B.S.

Well see thats the odd thing. I had tons of ambition before opiates. So instinct tells me no matter what type of ambition I get when I'm initially on them, that its never durable no matter what the opiate is that I'm currently on.

And Lexapro worked great for my depression honestly. I had tried Zoloft, Paxil and Prozac then swore off ssris for years. Was ambitious but depressed. Got on lexapro, depression vanished... but apparently so did my ambition. I start reading side effects online, and aparently apathy is a common long term side effect from ssris.

So naturally I stop the Lex. Depression doesn't come back, ambition doesn't either. Was very weird and again I'm not sure if lex caused this, because I did lose my job and have a hard time finding work at one point. But after a year off the lex and not working I went to opiates. Get ambition back like never before, 3 years later ambition goes down the drain.

Switch from full agonist opiates to sub... ambition comes back lol. Now I'm on 4mg a day for almost 2 months. And I tend to have a very low level of ambition everyday although its consistent and I like that. Just enough to do what I need. So far it doesn't seem like the ambition is going away. But now I'm stuck in the trap of realizing that drugs that make you happy, seem to induce apathy at some point after a long enough time on them. Both ssris and opiates gave me apathy, the apathy from opiates was much more obvious, but even when I came off the lex and didn't feel depressed... I still felt lazy as fuck.

So now I'm starting to think ok maybe drugs can make you apathetic, but how much are drugs responsible for my inability to derive normal joy from little things like movies and how much of that is being created by myself?
I do think I'm responsible to a degree, I hate not knowing how much. Because oddly it seems when I push myself hard, ambition seems to come just from the act of being ambitious. And maybe I just lost ambition because I stopped using it for a while. Idk. It all seems very relative, it all seems connected to a degree, but its always me going back and forth in my head like "what is the right choice"?

All I know now is on sub now I feel ok, I hate not knowing how long its going to last, but I think if worst comes to worst and I lose ambition again, I am doing a very long and slow taper off opiates for good, and am going to resume the battle sober. I mean I almost feel like subs working for me, but you can never really be sure either way. If a year from now I'm still as motivated as I am now.. maybe I'll stay on it for much more long term. But then again the question becomes how long am I willing to stay on it for? And if I can't deal with life w/out sub, even by very slowly and giving my brain ample time to "recover", then I may be stuck on some type of opiate for the rest of my life.

ALL I KNOW, is I do not want this shit to ruin my life. I still want to be successful, grow, learn and evolve, and feel like I lived a somewhat fullfilling life. I definitely don't want to get back into the typical drug addict behavoir. I realize I was trying to medicate and now I'm seriously considering that this may be a life long thing. And I may have to learn how to deal with needing to take a pill everyday for the rest of my life. I just really fear that one day I'm going to "break my brain" for good, just by being on opiates too long. Like your testicles stop making testosterone when you supplement it with artificial test for a couple years. They just dry up and thats it lol. I couldn't imagine that happening to my brain and my "happy chemicals". Like never being able to be happy again cause I took so many drugs, and no amount motivates me anymore. Maybe the real secret is just balance idk. I'm balanced on sub, so I guess I will see. lol but for now I'll try taking it a day at a time like I should be.

 

[anterrabae]

I tried Suboxone and it made me very happy and high for a decent duration. No real peak or comedown, I liked it. I don't know if I want to be dependent on anything and go into treatment for an addiction that is there but isn't really sufficient enough.

I guess most of my worries are about what others will think of me if I choose treatment. Like those old commercials, 'I don't wanna be a druggy when I grow up'. I don't know. Thought and time I guess.

 

[b4rd]

i have to say, as someone who struggles with mental health issues like depression and anxiety, i am very drawn to the idea of taking opiates to self medicate.

Yes.

Id say at first they were for fun/escape, but now; anxiety relief, irritibility relief, relief etc.

 

[bluedom]

I think like with everything, opiates may well perpetuate the state of anxiety, which causes more opiates to be taken, and so on. I think opiates are mood stabiliers, like many GABAergic drugs, but I think more safe though highly physical dependence causing.

I became addicted to alcohol after three years of use and then it's been a few years since I've touched a drop. But about 9 months ago I ended up on fentanyl patches for severe chronic pain (prescribed 50mcg/hr dose and I extract some patches and wear some). I'm planning on jumping off the last bit (now at 12.5mcg/hr with the aid of gabapentin) and it's making me anxious. But I think I am committed this time. I've not really abused my prescription (i.e., have not taken more than prescribed) and I was prescribed it for an injury and I'm supposed to have chronic pain for several years. But I want off.

I have enjoyed my 9 months on opiates and right now plan to get off and just use it every refill (extract the fentanyl out) until my doctor cuts me off. I find it mentally OKAY to not take it if I am not prescribed it (I seem to have conditioned myself to this) but if I have it, man my tolerance builds up really fast and it stops being fun since after 3-4 days, it's just about dependency and lowering my tolerance. I hope there's no kindling like there was with alcohol.

At the same time since I stopped drinking I have been incredibly successful in life and am trying literally to save the lives of billions of peple in the world (medical research with direct impact), etc. and well on my way to doing it. I have the luxury that I'm in the first year of this push (I have about 3-4 more years) and I kind of feel I'm deserving of the "break" (I manage people who will be the ones who'll actually do the work that ends up saving the world . So far I've been able to take the opiates and "function" and it's not like alcohol where my behaviour became bad when I got drunk (when I take a lot of opiates, I go to sleep).

So I think I need to get out of the opiate DEPENDENCY I have. I plan to use my last bit of gabapentin to get off my last dependency but this seems like the hardest thing to do.

 

[Fire&Water]

I take hydrocodone prescribed for back pain & rarely take more than needed to get high but occasionally I will pop some morphine because I like the sedating feeling. I also find I enjoy opiates more when im feeling great emotionally compared to taking them when depressed.

Ive tried oxycodone as well but honestly, I dont like it at all. Was taking it for about a 2 month period every other day & what not & once that stash ran out, I had no cravings whatsoever probably because I didnt enjoy the stimulating effects & could care less about the drug. Ive taken percs & seem to enjoy them way more than oxycontin/oxycodone & yes, I do know percs have oxycodone in them but maybe the tylenol makes them more enjoyable to me.

Ive always wanted to try the stronger stuff but I wont allow myself because my tolerance will sky rocket & that is something I do not want. I do wish I could have found codeine easily when I first started or my doctor could have prescribed codeine contin, I would like to have kept my tolerance to the lowest of opiates.

percs' contain "hydrocodone" not nearly as effective for pain

 

[Fire&Water]

Yes, the science has moved on. But why, with more antidepressants on the market than ever before, is depression still so prevalent? I guess I just doubt their effectiveness having been on tens of different kinds for over a decade, in conjunction with therapy, when I think only time and experience really has helped me cope with it.

Poppy's grow for a reason, the best medicine for pain...
There were no social problems when the "pipey" was used for an after work
tiredness boost (raw opium/laudanum) It was only when all the Chinese - slaves wanted to bring their medicine/fatigue reducer to the states was the
"medicine" demonized, then taken into the labs' & eventually turned into poison.

 

[Fire&Water]

hi i saw this threat and felt i needed to contribute. i live in the uk and its possible we have different names for our painkilling drugs. i have lived with severe pain for over 20 years. i am only 49. i take df118 which in the uk is a class B restricted drug. i also take a drug that is not a narcotic but a very effective pill, called nefferpam(acupan) df118 is a highly addictive and very strong morphine based painkiller which i have been on for 17 years. its not a precipitive drug in than one feels the need to take more and more. the withdrawals come quickly though if you miss a dose. here in the uk illegal possession of this can and often does carry a custodial sentence as crack addicts cut this with heroin to get an extra high. i actually do no know that there is any link between this drug and depression. For myself this drug has been a godsend. df118 is just about the strongest painkiller available here that a general doctor can prescribe without referral to a specialist clinic. as i said this drug is highly addictive but very different to bezos, which are a precipative drug. i know i was addicted to diazapam over 20 years ago when here our doctors were still handing them out. the withdrawals were appalling when they got stopped so much so that i had to be hospitalised to detox. but i know of no link between df118 and depression. in my experience depression is linked to life experiences. and unless one locates the roots of ones depression a pill will not make any difference if when that pill is stopped that persons life is exactly the same as it was before. if we try to locate the roots of our depression in an opiate, then why bother to take the anti depressant. in my view which is located both academically and in experience anti depressants are absolutely ineffective in combating depression. this was also the view of the british medical council who adivised that drugs such as prozac were totally ineffective in treating most depressions and adviised that doctors only offer them as a last resort. counselling was the advised option, but seeing that here in the uk it can take two years to see a free government appointed counseller, doctors had no alternative but to give innefective pills just to meet their targets. so here in the uk patients are being filled full of useless expensive pills because there is no alternative. i have strayed off topic. sorry

"it is not a narcotic....but a highly addictive morphine based painkiller ? WTF

 

[anterrabae]

percs' contain "hydrocodone" not nearly as effective for pain

Percocet contain oxycodone, the same drug as in oxycontin and roxis. I believe they are very efficient for pain relief.

And I agree with you about the wonderful poppy plant...just all these silly laws to protect idiots from harming themselves.

 

[euphoricc]

get clean

get on methadone thats ur life get on sub ull never be the same fkked me ALLL UPPPPPPPPPPPPP AND BENZOS NO NO NOOOO

 

[InstantNoodles]

In my cases I find opiates are a far better option than anti depressants. Each time I've only needed something short term, just something to get me through a rough patch.
Each time I've had periods of depression I have been prescribed anti depressants, I ether had very bad experiences with them or they have not worked at all. After a bit of research I read about how some people have benefited using opium for depression so I gave it a try, it worked a treat.
I'm going through a period of depression ATM where I have used codeine for longer than expected to self medicate, this is where I lernt how easily it can be missused. A lesson lernt.
After stopping and going through withdrawals I still believe opium based medication is still a good option for depression but now I can see how easy it can take control.
I'm back taking codeine again for depression but this time with a bit more caution.

 

[ColdNorth]

It's too easy to abuse them. I had almost tapered off bupre completely when some mood crap started to happen. Yesterday morning I woke up wanting to kill myself, so later I took 10x 0.4mg to calm down and actually felt an effect for the first time in ages due to the low tolerance. This morning 2.4mg and I feel like I just pissed away the progress of a few months as I want more again. I told my psychiatrist I'd quit with this prescription so I probably won't be getting anymore when these run out. The only other route is through an addiction clinic and in order to get any from there I'll have to produce needle marks. That's why they turned me away the first time after 8 years of opiates and I don't blame them..those guys feel the w/d way worse than I do. It really sucks that's the only legitimate option. If I have to, I'll gladly stick myself a few times but these are just temporary hiccups.

My point is, it's not for the impulsive or easily addicted types like me.

 

[NomNomNom]

In the many yeas i have been part of the opiate scene, one thing has always prevailed:
And that in some form of self-medication or denial of some facet of mental illness by using opiates.

i simply don't believe that people try opiates out of "fun' and continue. Opiates make you sick when you are naive to them. This is not "fun." it is only the ill who go past the initial sickness to releve diagnoised and undiagnosed mental health issues.

And why the drought in Europe now is causing such mayhem--fear of w/ds and also a return to untreated or even treated mental health issues. But augmented with illicit or legal opiate use.

In the USA, opiates were the only form of medication to alliviate deprrssion until the early 1950s.

Since posts must be framed in a question, I'll ask--do most folks who use opiates out there do it for "fun" or is it to releve an underlying MH problem?

For the most part i think it IS about an underlying MH problem with me. It's...hard/surprising/an admission of failure somehow for me to type that.

It's convoluted when you start using opiates to maybe treat an MH issue but don't phrase it to yourself that way, discover that opiates are indeed 'fun' then continue to use based on that enjoyment. But wow, when i think about it, i don't really know many...maybe ANY people who used opiates the way i did for my first 10 years or so.

I'd take 1/2 of a 7.5mg Percocet and get that nice lift. I'm everyone's best friend, i'm funny, social anxiety is non-existent with people i'm already acquainted with, I can bust out an 8-9 hour restaurant shift standing on my head. Re-dose every 4-5 hours. Pump the brakes if i did a 3-4 day stint on beans, be happy with weed. This shit's addictive, if you double the dose pretty soon you'll quadruple and octuple it.

It's funny to realize this just now, but i was totally self medicating. I'd stretch out a low dose as long as i could to get a little kick, whereas most people i knew then treated beans like a DRUG drug. "Dude i took 6 vikes can't feel my face" one of my friends told me when i was like 19. He was pre-med, an all state wrestler in high school, i was a little shocked. It never occurred to me to take them like that, i don't know why.

So naturally i'm like "ok cool, there's lots of people taking these things at way higher doses than me, i'm pretty safe" But...it never occurred to me that taking them at low doses 3-4 days at a time would habituate me to that feeling and set me up to feel that psychological pull when i came off them, every time the tether getting shorter and shorter.

I'm really glad i found this thread because i never FULLY made that connection. The thought was there, but now that i think about how i was dosing myself and what i was using opiates for, that's really what was going on.

Then...i found pod/seed tea which i thought was basically the same thing as taking a Vicodin or something. Keep drinking, keep drinking; nod; 'yeah this is the same thing' nod. Then it was just about fun.

 

[Eyes On the Roll]

I think opiates would be great for some aspects of my bipolar. Its an instant anti depressant, it does cause mood swings, but it can also stop the terrible body sores i get from depkote. I WISH opites were prescribed for mentl health.. then i would be one really happy man

 

[GoldenLovely]

Its hard to pinpoint the reason we start taking opiates because for many of us, there's more than one reason.
My first experience with them was like so many others. Truly for pain relief. Dentist gave me 10 ES Vicodin for a toothache. Worst pain I'd ever been in. This was in 2006
Two of those little pills and I was feeling fine. I knew I liked opiates from then on, but I really didn't touch them again for a few years. However, they were always on my mind. So maybe I was mentally addicted to them from the beginning.

Then in 2008, I had an operation for weight loss and was given 20 tylenols with codeine. Rather weak opiates, but opiates none the less and since I had no real tolerance at the time, they did have an effect.

When the drugs ran out, I was "ok" for a while, then about a two years ago I started to get very bad restless leg syndrome, but it wasn't just RLS...It was like I had electricity running through my entire body...I couldnt relax, couldn't sit still, couldn't sleep. I had no insurance to see a Dr. I knew opiates were a treatment for RLS...so I figured they could help me with whatever this was.

So I ordered poppy pods. They were cheap and there were plenty of places to get them. And they worked! No more restlessness...I was relaxed..happy. So I started to take them both for my condition and as a mood elevator. Of course then the tolerance started to build significantly and you all know what happened with price and availability of pods.

So anyway....I started taking them for one reason, but it became more than one reason and when I ran out...well I needed them for a whole lot more reasons! Or at least I thought I did.

 

[NearlyDone]

Used to be prescribed opiates for never ending headaches. I'd save them to overcome my depression and anxiety which I did not realize I had. Always though I just had confidence issues. Well, after the Docs stopped prescribing the opiates I slowly fell apart. Depression has left me divorced, unemployed, broke, and living in my parent's basemnt. Meds prescribed for depression have nly served to make it worse. While on prescribed meds for depression I have tried to commit suicide, thought about suicide nealy all of the time, assaulted a cop, and on and on.
I recently needed knee surgery. The pain meds brought me back to life. Became outgoing, interested, engaged, and happy.Now the pain meds are nearly gone (saving the last two for emnrgency) and I've been a basket case ever since concluding that without them, I am destined to be miserable for he rest of my life.
Drs will gladly give you all kinds of meds for depression, most, if not all of which clearly state side affects such as suicidal ideations but will not prescribe the opiates which actually help.
So here I sit, crying again. I can't get the meds that help me not wanna be dead while my mom is dying a slow death due to a lifetime of smoking cigs that anyone can buy over the counter. Yes, opiates are addictive and can cause reall problems down the road BUT, if they keep me alive!!