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what's going to happen to my friend?

Garden Man

Garden Man

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Aug 17, 2010
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118
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The Jungle
Hi, I have a case for all you curious minds. A, who once was, good friend of mine has spiraled out of control. He isn't an opiate or stimulant addict, but is abusing psychedelics hard. He does MDMA (same guy i got my stuff from) about twice-three times a week (4 mdma pills each time so that's about 300-400mg of pure). When he comes down, he gets drunk or does LSD. When he comes down and withdrawals (if you want to call it that) from the LSD/alcohol; he does more MDMA. Lately, he's also been using the 2Cs on top of that (2c-i in particular). He dropped out of school to remain home and sell/do drugs.

I'm curious as to what will be the mental/physical risks and damages should he remain on this path; what with the serotonergic problems of consistent MDMA use on top of alcohol/lsd/rc phenethylamines.

true story, just saw him yesterday.
 
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We cannot say what will happen, but there are possibilities that can be listed. I don't see why not discuss the risks of something like that.

I'd say:

- Mood stability problems and/or depression
- Derealization or depersonalisation issues, developing slowly or starting with a psychotic break even
- Nervous breakdown
- Deeper and deeper conditioning of this lifestyle, causing more deep or chronic addiction than the habit it may be now (though it already sounds like poly drug addiction).
- Health issues, who knows what kinds but maybe liver or kidney damage or brain damage, deteriorating cardiovascular system perhaps.
- Deteriorating cognitive faculties: bad memory, hard time with using language or doing calculations or other similar mental operations... could be temporary or permanent.
- Weight loss and/or malnutrition.

Don't you feel more comfortable if I move this to The Dark Side forum?
 
Not really. I don't feel any sympathy at all for him, and neither should anybody else, as he knew full well what we was doing when he did it. We've tried to talk to him about it over, and over, and over again. What does he say? "fuck that shit"


I wasn't sure whether to put this here, TDS, or ADD; but move it to wherever you'd feel it would get the best responses.
 
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Ask him "WHAT exactly are you running from?"

Tell him "You need to figure out what exactly it is you are trying to escape from. SOMETHING, a feeling, a memory of abuse, a loss, a fear... SOMETHING is causing such extreme and unusual usage as a method to ESCAPE."

Show him this as confirmation from people with LOTS of psychedelic experience that such an extreme usage pattern is HIGHLY UNUSUAL and definitely VERY DANGEROUS to his brain, nervous system, even his heart and other organs.

Phenethylamines like MDMA and the 2C drugs are VERY damaging via free radical effects. I am very pro drug and pro psychedelic but I want to tell him that this VERY high frequency of use WILL literally "fry" his neurons and lead to memory issues, thinking problems, and DEPRESSION, and will also damage his brain, as well as his heart and blood vessels.

I know it sounds like enabling, but as long as he insists on continuing he should at least act to protect his physical organism by using large doses of antioxidants... they probably wont prevent depression and memory/thinking issues, but at least they might lower the risk of brain and heart damage due to excessively huge free-radical production.

See this (explains the issues and offers some recomendations):

from the Newsletter of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
MAPS - Volume 4 Number 1 Spring 1993

Phenethylamines, Free Radicals, and Antioxidants
Brian Leibovitz, Ph.D.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n1/04134pea.html
 
A friend of mine abused alcohol, cocaine and MDMA daily for about 1.5-2 years straight when we were in high school. One or more of the drugs, used daily like that, induced depression, severe anxiety, mood swings, and suicidal tendencies. During the worst of it, she was trying to isolate herself from everyone who cared about her so we wouldn't be upset when she killed herself. Luckily that didn't happen, now it's been four years since she got sober from all three, and she's totally back to normal except for mild anxiety and the occasional panic attack.

I'm sure the other psychedelics in the mix are making the situation even worse for your friend. If you care about him, you'll try your hardest to get him to stop this behavior.
 
His serotonin system is going to be downregulated to hell and back. You need to tell him he needs to either get help or he will end up as a case study in a neurology journal.

Would the seller of the MDMA be at all open to no longer selling to your friend? I would hope that a vendor of such a noble chemical would be willing to do what he could to avoid enabling someone to hurt themselves. (Of course, who knows if your friend will just abuse something else...)
 
I don't have much to say to the OP except get your friend some help, he clearly needs it. After abusing something as friendly as DMT for a week in a row I was pretty strung out, I can't imagine what your friend is going to feel like.

DwayneHoover said:
Phenethylamines like MDMA and the 2C drugs are VERY damaging via free radical effects. I am very pro drug and pro psychedelic but I want to tell him that this VERY high frequency of use WILL literally "fry" his neurons and lead to memory issues, thinking problems, and DEPRESSION, and will also damage his brain, as well as his heart and blood vessels.


from the Newsletter of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
MAPS - Volume 4 Number 1 Spring 1993

Phenethylamines, Free Radicals, and Antioxidants
Brian Leibovitz, Ph.D.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n1/04134pea.html
Click to expand...

Do you know if the intake of these anti-oxidants will reduce the hangover effect of some phens? And what frequency is in paramount to take these antioxidants? Are we talking once a week?

I know you might not know the answers but was hoping you could help out.
 
I think if he could lay off eating MDMA multiple times per week he'd be in much better shape. Psychedelic abuse isn't really known for the same horrible aftereffects but then again people dont usually eat 2c-x/LSD with such vigor unless they have the MDMA fueling them. It looks like he doesn't care for his mental sanity or physical health so it will be hard to change his ways though. Does he know alot about the mechanism of action of psys, mdma or are they all just trips to him? I can't see anyone who researched MDMA and its heavy-duty releasing effects of serotonin to do it so often (unless they had somehow deluded themselves it was their way to be most happy or whatever).
 
Some antioxidants are fat-soluble like CO-Q10 and the carotenoids, but others like selenium and C are water-soluble and wash out daily.

Ester-C is probably the best form of C as it is taken up inside cells more effectively and is thus not just in the blood so offers better protection. Also its non-acidic so easy on the stomach, and usually comes with added bioflavonods that are also super-good for you.

I would say you ought to take all these daily, and especially prior to the drug use and also when coming down.

Yes they might well reduce hangover effects... but its also important to replenish the used-up neurotransmitters... Tyrosine (2g/d on empty stomach + at least 1g vit C + 25mg B-6) transforms into several that are depleted (Norepinephrine & dopamine)... as also tryptophan and its cousin 5-HTP replenish Serotonin... these two things might also reduce hangover.

There was a study I saw that showed rats given the human equivalent of 3g plain ole vitamin C an hour prior to huge doses of MDMA TOTALLY AVOIDED the neuron system damage that non-C rats suffered. Compelling evidence that oxidation is the prime culprit and a reason for EVERYONE using phenethylamines and/or other stims (like cathinones, methylone, etc) to be following the advice I've shared.
 
Garden Man said:
Not really. I don't feel any sympathy at all for him, and neither should anybody else, as he knew full well what we was doing when he did it. We've tried to talk to him about it over, and over, and over again. What does he say? "fuck that shit"


I wasn't sure whether to put this here, TDS, or ADD; but move it to wherever you'd feel it would get the best responses.
Click to expand...

A terrible way to speak of your friend, not sure you can even call him that, though. Addiction is not easy and people have problems... no one "has it coming to them," I don't think.
 
Sounds like the common fool who engages in psychedelic use, and gives it a bad reputation for all of the responsible users out there. Who knows what will happen to him, but I can assure you he's going to suffer from serotonin syndrome, taking that much MDMA is foolish.
 
Garden Man said:
Not really. I don't feel any sympathy at all for him, and neither should anybody else, as he knew full well what we was doing when he did it. We've tried to talk to him about it over, and over, and over again. What does he say? "fuck that shit"
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding like a cold utilitarian:

You owe it to yourself and all psych users to not let your friend self-destruct. If he does, and it makes the media, there could be further crackdowns. None of us need that.

Also: when talking to him, try to not give him anything to be angry at. If you can manage to not react to anger, or to appear angry yourself, you're much more likely to get through to him.
 
^ Yes... make it clear you are only mentioning it out of friendship and care.

Such moments can be smoothed sometimes by a momentary contact like a hand on the shoulder. Maybe that's going a bit far with the advice, but a little touch like that does give a tangible (and evolutionarrily deeply ingrained) signal that you are acting out of a deep level of personal concern.

Try and make him see how it at least *APPEARS* to others like he is running from something. Even if he brushes that suggestion off, that sort of external snapshot can be enough to make an impression that sticks and that a person will keep going back to and contemplating, which can be a powerful yet subtle/gentle influence for positive change. Don't press it just drop that hint and leave it.

And be sure to let him know you (and others?) will be there to help with anything in any way even if he should just want to talk or whatever.

Yea yea I know, sounding all maudlin and Dr. Phil but whatever....
 
Sounds like he's trying to run away from a psychological condition (I went through exactly the same thing 9-10 years ago with MDMA and Alcohol - 15-20 pills a week, and >50 units of alcohol a week, plus other idiosyncratic substances like LSD and Amphetamines). If unchecked, it will not end well.

You say you have no sympathy for him, but the thing he will really need now is support and knowing he has a friend there. This will do wonders for him. I had no close friends during my episode, and I believe this self-reinforced the cycle. It got pretty bad, with me suffering a severe depressive episode.

Bear with him. It will take a while before he may open up, but this kind of thing has the potential to end very badly. Is he a really close friend?
 
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