I was addicted to pure MDMA for five month and am considering doing it again

[First Bad Comedown]

The belief that somehow people can take hundreds of doses without consequence is a common mistake. Moderate use is likely safer, but a LOT of science suggests that these heavy users are making long-term/permanent alterations in their 'brain-gut' circuitry.

There really is no debate about this anymore.
In the scientific community it is accepted that MDMA 're-wires' the brain.
It is the minimum definition of 'toxicity' and it is NOT in debate any longer.
What remains in debate is the functional consequences of this truth.

Honestly, doctors are amazed at how 'normal' these former heavy users act after the recovery period. They wonder how the person can return to normalcy despite the profound nerve alterations we KNOW are happening...

Science continues to study the effects of this.
It appears there is a loss of function in the prefrontal cortex.
This does not appear to have severe cognitive impact, for most users.
But it DOES have emotional impact. These people may be blunting their ability to experience profound 'gut feelings'.

The PFC is the highest of all thinking centers. More than any other brain region, this one differentiates us from other animals. It is what makes us 'human'.
The 5-HT network is highly vulnerable in this region because the axons are thin and fiber-like. They are also further away from the brain stem than in any other region.

The action of MDMA on the PFC is likely responsible for a LOT of the 'magic' of rolling.
It is believed that MDMA causes a targeted release of dopamine down the meso-limbic reward pathway. This runs from the PFC to the limbic system - from highest thinking center to primal brain. The axons in this region are CUT free of the cell body, especially with repeated dosing. Re-innervation down the line is often incomplete and abnormal.

It seems that the connection between the 'gut' and the 'highest thinking center' can be forever altered by this drug. That doesn't mean that the PFC loses all function, or that it has a direct impact upon IQ. But something profound IS happening, especially among heavy users.

Mood disturbances following use are relatively common, especially in this group. Research has found decreases in cerebral blood flow in some users. In other, increases can also be found for many months. This is strongly correlated with reports of anxiety and other symptoms. Increases in blood flow are believed to be a marker of neurotoxicity.

Call it neuro-adaptation, too.
It's both.
But the FACT is that MDMA does re-wire the brain.

There are many users that go on for years, but I would argue that 200 pills is more than people should take in a lifetime. They often complain about quality of pills going down over time, when it is likely the re-wiring of their brains that cause this. Some will use piracetam to improve their experience. Most say that comedowns get worse over time.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that suggests there is a problem.
Keep up with your 'heavy use' friends. Come back to Bluelight in another 5-10 years and tell us if they are still doing great. I guarantee that anyone using 100 tabs a year can only go on for so many years...

 

[vancbc]

The belief that somehow people can take hundreds of doses without consequence is a common mistake. Moderate use is likely safer, but a LOT of science suggests that these heavy users are making long-term/permanent alterations in their 'brain-gut' circuitry.

There really is no debate about this anymore.
In the scientific community it is accepted that MDMA 're-wires' the brain.
It is the minimum definition of 'toxicity' and it is NOT in debate any longer.
What remains in debate is the functional consequences of this truth.

Honestly, doctors are amazed at how 'normal' these former heavy users act after the recovery period. They wonder how the person can return to normalcy despite the profound nerve alterations we KNOW are happening...

Science continues to study the effects of this.
It appears there is a loss of function in the prefrontal cortex.
This does not appear to have severe cognitive impact, for most users.
But it DOES have emotional impact. These people may be blunting their ability to experience profound 'gut feelings'.

The PFC is the highest of all thinking centers. More than any other brain region, this one differentiates us from other animals. It is what makes us 'human'.
The 5-HT network is highly vulnerable in this region because the axons are thin and fiber-like. They are also further away from the brain stem than in any other region.

The action of MDMA on the PFC is likely responsible for a LOT of the 'magic' of rolling.
It is believed that MDMA causes a targeted release of dopamine down the meso-limbic reward pathway. This runs from the PFC to the limbic system - from highest thinking center to primal brain. The axons in this region are CUT free of the cell body, especially with repeated dosing. Re-innervation down the line is often incomplete and abnormal.

It seems that the connection between the 'gut' and the 'highest thinking center' can be forever altered by this drug. That doesn't mean that the PFC loses all function, or that it has a direct impact upon IQ. But something profound IS happening, especially among heavy users.

Mood disturbances following use are relatively common, especially in this group. Research has found decreases in cerebral blood flow in some users. In other, increases can also be found for many months. This is strongly correlated with reports of anxiety and other symptoms. Increases in blood flow are believed to be a marker of neurotoxicity.

Call it neuro-adaptation, too.
It's both.
But the FACT is that MDMA does re-wire the brain.

There are many users that go on for years, but I would argue that 200 pills is more than people should take in a lifetime. They often complain about quality of pills going down over time, when it is likely the re-wiring of their brains that cause this. Some will use piracetam to improve their experience. Most say that comedowns get worse over time.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that suggests there is a problem.
Keep up with your 'heavy use' friends. Come back to Bluelight in another 5-10 years and tell us if they are still doing great. I guarantee that anyone using 100 tabs a year can only go on for so many years...

Thanks for posting this. Again, interesting reading. I'm curious about what research considers a pill in terms of 100 to 200 pills? I've had pills with such a low dosage of MDMA that they barely got me off the ground, and then I've had other pills especially close to a decade ago that were so strong that 1 pill sent me into outer orbit for hours. Does the research you refer to quantify the dosage into something measurable such as a lifetime dosage?

 

[chitown rollin]

First Bad Comedown- I think you are either getting your facts from somewhere not too reliable, making them up, or just a hypochondriac. You've taken only 30 pills in your life and you claim to have brain damage and are claiming that someone who has taken 200 pills in their lifetime is on the heavier end of users? Think about someone who has been using the drug for 10 years... taking 20 pills a year is not very many, especially how many people double drop or just take more than one pill throughout the course of the night. I took 200 pills in my first year of using the drug. I definitely felt a bit off for a few months afterwards but NOWHERE near the side effects you are claiming. One thing I didn't share with you in our PMs is that I have recently went to the hospital for xanax withdrawal where they performed a CT scan on my brain. Earlier this year I had an MRI done, neither of which showed any abnormalities in my brain. I think you need to stop freaking people out on this website or at least start citing your information with credible sources. I think it's great that you're trying to help people but I'm sorry but I think you go way overboard with what you post. I'm willing to bet that a large majority of this website has taken more than 200 pills in a lifetime, and are fine like I am.

 

[trancerage]

The belief that somehow people can take hundreds of doses without consequence is a common mistake. Moderate use is likely safer, but a LOT of science suggests that these heavy users are making long-term/permanent alterations in their 'brain-gut' circuitry.

There really is no debate about this anymore.
In the scientific community it is accepted that MDMA 're-wires' the brain.
It is the minimum definition of 'toxicity' and it is NOT in debate any longer.
What remains in debate is the functional consequences of this truth.

Honestly, doctors are amazed at how 'normal' these former heavy users act after the recovery period. They wonder how the person can return to normalcy despite the profound nerve alterations we KNOW are happening...

Science continues to study the effects of this.
It appears there is a loss of function in the prefrontal cortex.
This does not appear to have severe cognitive impact, for most users.
But it DOES have emotional impact. These people may be blunting their ability to experience profound 'gut feelings'.

The PFC is the highest of all thinking centers. More than any other brain region, this one differentiates us from other animals. It is what makes us 'human'.
The 5-HT network is highly vulnerable in this region because the axons are thin and fiber-like. They are also further away from the brain stem than in any other region.

The action of MDMA on the PFC is likely responsible for a LOT of the 'magic' of rolling.
It is believed that MDMA causes a targeted release of dopamine down the meso-limbic reward pathway. This runs from the PFC to the limbic system - from highest thinking center to primal brain. The axons in this region are CUT free of the cell body, especially with repeated dosing. Re-innervation down the line is often incomplete and abnormal.

It seems that the connection between the 'gut' and the 'highest thinking center' can be forever altered by this drug. That doesn't mean that the PFC loses all function, or that it has a direct impact upon IQ. But something profound IS happening, especially among heavy users.

Mood disturbances following use are relatively common, especially in this group. Research has found decreases in cerebral blood flow in some users. In other, increases can also be found for many months. This is strongly correlated with reports of anxiety and other symptoms. Increases in blood flow are believed to be a marker of neurotoxicity.

Call it neuro-adaptation, too.
It's both.
But the FACT is that MDMA does re-wire the brain.

There are many users that go on for years, but I would argue that 200 pills is more than people should take in a lifetime. They often complain about quality of pills going down over time, when it is likely the re-wiring of their brains that cause this. Some will use piracetam to improve their experience. Most say that comedowns get worse over time.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that suggests there is a problem.
Keep up with your 'heavy use' friends. Come back to Bluelight in another 5-10 years and tell us if they are still doing great. I guarantee that anyone using 100 tabs a year can only go on for so many years...

dont get me wrong man, I do agree that abuse of mdma will fuck you up pretty bad, after a while sides become pretty serius, but what I dont see is these ppl suffering from depression after evern 2 years of cutting the use... you abuse of it, you will pay, sooner or later, no doubt about it, but it seems that the recovery time you are proposing is just too much in reality... some ppl get fucked, yeah, but most ppl selfregulate the use and kind of are fine after a couple months of slowing down the use. I dont think anyone should be using more than one session a month... Please do read that I said MOST, not everyone.

200 pills in a life time is a lot to be for real, but I think the average use on young ravers is way more than than...

 

[trancerage]

First Bad Comedown- I think you are either getting your facts from somewhere not too reliable, making them up, or just a hypochondriac. You've taken only 30 pills in your life and you claim to have brain damage and are claiming that someone who has taken 200 pills in their lifetime is on the heavier end of users? Think about someone who has been using the drug for 10 years... taking 20 pills a year is not very many, especially how many people double drop or just take more than one pill throughout the course of the night. I took 200 pills in my first year of using the drug. I definitely felt a bit off for a few months afterwards but NOWHERE near the side effects you are claiming. One thing I didn't share with you in our PMs is that I have recently went to the hospital for xanax withdrawal where they performed a CT scan on my brain. Earlier this year I had an MRI done, neither of which showed any abnormalities in my brain. I think you need to stop freaking people out on this website or at least start citing your information with credible sources. I think it's great that you're trying to help people but I'm sorry but I think you go way overboard with what you post. I'm willing to bet that a large majority of this website has taken more than 200 pills in a lifetime, and are fine like I am.

this is kind of what I think...

 

[chitown rollin]

I mean I hate to break it to you man, but you've only taken 30 pills in your lifetime... I don't think you really know what post MDMA depression feels like...

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Depression is a part of the process.
There is much more than this...
And who are you to make such a statement?

I hate to break it to you - I am not manufacturing any symptoms, whatsoever.
None of this is just in my 'head'.
The 're-wiring' is happening, and I can feel it.
This is more than 'post-roll depression'.
I wish that's all it were.

It is the most intense and difficult journey of my life.
I am glad the worst of it is behind me.

It was not my limited life-time exposure that caused this, either.
It was the frequency of use at the end.

My pills were verified pure by professional testing, but I simply took a few too many without spacing. Six days apart I rolled on 3.5 tabs each night. Then a half tab the following day.

A 100 mg dose of benedryl followed in the next 48 hours - this may have contributed to the problem as well, as benedryl has been shown to inhibit the re-uptake of serotonin in higher doses.

Regardless of what your experience tells you, there is a wide variation in reactions to MDMA toxicity. Its pharmakinetics are NOT linear, especially with repeated dosing. Too many factors are involved, and if the right circumstances are present, blood concentration of MDMA can rise very rapidly in some users.

The greatest and clearest risk factor is dosage.
Higher doses and repeated doses have been proven, many times, to increase the amount of damage done to the 5-HT network.

It is extremely likely that my schedule of use at the end would cause major problems for a LOT of people. Just because you know some that 'binged' and came out ok, does not mean that most MDMA users are this foolish.

You are a heavier user that has claimed to be near 1000 doses!
You have claimed that I am over-stating the truth about the risks.

Despite this, you have also admitted to having 'brain zaps' in the months following your last exposure. Why don't you admit to these brain zaps every time you write a post that belittles the risks of MDMA?
Why do you go around proclaiming that heavy use is common without consequence?
Why don't you let others judge for themselves how important 'brain-zaps' are, rather than making the decision for them?

So, Chitown, do us a favor and describe post-roll depression for us, since I obviously couldn't know...

In fact, do us all a favor.
Return to Bluelight in a few years and tell us all whether you simply stopped using so much, or if you continued.
Tell us, then, if you really feel the same...

 

[chitown rollin]

I read the first and last parts of your essay so I will respond to those. It's really not necessary to write 15 paragraphs every time you post BTW. I clearly used ecstasy more than the average person, but in a PM to me you claim that I am one of the heaviest users EVER. I think that is ridiculous. I know plenty of people who have taken more pills than me and are just fine.

I never claim to not have suffered any consequences from the drug, but the reality is I have taken MUCH more than people who complain of severe depression on this site. This leads me to believe that posters like you, while most is fact, are EXAGGERATING the effects that ecstasy has on a person. Do I believe in post roll depression? Of course I do. Do I think that you get it from simply rolling twice in two weeks? Not a chance.

When you first start out using MDMA it seems as if there are no consequences from it. I used it so frequently that I did feel consequences, but most people don't use it that frequently. If I could have controlled myself better and kept it to once a month, maybe twice a month, I would still be rolling today. I am not doing any drugs really today, because of a problem with another drug.

My post roll depression, after 3 months of heavy use (4-6 pills a night, every friday and saturday night), consisted of head pressure which lasted approx. 4 months and generally just feeling a bit out of it. I never got "depressed" from MDMA. IN FACT, the worst I would ever feel is when I would read bluelight posts from people like you trying to scare everyone off just because your body doesn't react to the drug like mine does. This is not to say I don't believe in post roll depression though, as my friend who I did this all with got severely depressed for about 6 months.

All I'm trying to say is that if you use MDMA responsibly, not like I did, there is not much risk. I know you think you're Mr. Ecstasy and know everything, but I've taken your lifetime pill count over a 3 day festival. (Not proud of it). Is MDMA bad for you? Of course. Is it as bad as you're making it seem? Definitely not. Your dosage and amount of times consumed are what most people do when starting off, not knowing the dangers of not spacing the rolls apart. Most people just learn not to do that and go on doing it once a month. For whatever reason, you don't feel good. That doesn't give you the right to come on this website spewing a bunch of hate against the drug. I don't know if you realize this but most people post in here because they ENJOY ecstasy. I have not seen you once post anything beneficial about the drug. If you don't like it, then good for you. But don't bother people with PM's like you did to me. I am fine.

I already told you I haven't used MDMA since new years, so I'm not sure why you even posted the last paragraph. I feel completely the same as I did before, as I did 6 months after my initial "binge". Call me a liar, whatever man, but I know plenty of people who just needed some time away from the drug in order to feel better. Again, whether you believe me or not, I BELIEVE that it is mostly in your head. Please don't respond to this. Thanks.

To the OP- Though ecstasy is not considered physically addictive, I am 100% certain that I was mentally addicted to the feeling at one time lol. There was a point where I didn't know if I would ever stop consuming MDMA because I loved it so much. If you have any doubts in whether or not to do it, I wouldn't. After reading about you ODing and what the drug has done to you, I think you need to give it a lot more time off to think about it. I also read that you aren't going to do it (I believe), before I got sidetracked with this guy above me. I hope that you stick to that, it really isn't worth it. MDMA is a drug that needs to be respected, and if you have any doubts then you know you shouldn't go through with it.

 

[Sociable]

I've eaten a shit ton of tabs in a small amount of time and I don't weigh that much. I am also fairly young. The only downsides I ever found to my x use was raised tolerance if I didn't wait. I never redose. Even after heavy use I noticed waiting 2 months I popped 2 yellow rhinos and I was rolling again.

First Bad Comedown perhaps you are a unique case- I state to this to imply that you are different than most mdma users. Would you disagree? I've abused x a lot more than you in terms of not waiting, and even eating low doses very frequently and do not suffer from anything currently that I feel is directly related to x.

I don't even think about x anymore.

I remember when it was all I could think about. Ha (Very short period of time) Just reading and learning about it was fun

OP- Don't eat it, wait and forget about x for a while. Wouldn't you rather wait it out knowing how magical it will be?

Although apparently if you're a heavy user it'll never be magical anymore? Dunno. I'm not worried about it. Just don't take x anymore then. It's not essential to life.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Well, thanks for opening up Mr. Chitown.
Information is important, whether or not it supports pre-existing points of view.
This is true for both of us.

Just to let you know, neither CT scans nor MRIs can easily detect damage to the 5-HT network. They can find larger structural damage or changes in blood flow, but the nerves in the serotonin network are far too intricate for these imaging technologies. This is why so much animal data relies on staining techniques and brain slices!

You should get a SPECT or PET scan if you can manage.
Otherwise, please donate your brain to science after death.

I did say in a PM that your usage placed you among the heaviest of users, according to research.
You claimed to achieve nearly 1000 rolls between the ages of 16-21.
This is pretty hardcore, and pointing to others that have done more does not change that fact.

Surely you know plenty of people that haven't gone that far.

We could take a poll and try to establish what is considered 'heavy' use.
Most people that have gotten to the count you have are likely less susceptible to having problems. It is the only way you got that far. People in this group are going to claim that this usage pattern is somehow not extreme.

The doses you describe as typical overlap with doses KNOWN to cause long-term reorganization of the 5-HT axons in several species of animals.
Primates tend to be more susceptible than rats, by the way.

Then you will find users, like me, who react badly to relatively few doses.
I'm willing to bet you will find many others that fall in between, and they will probably agree that hundreds of pills per year, five years in a row is a very bad idea.

This statement of yours bothers me:
"That doesn't give you the right to come on this website spewing a bunch of hate against the drug."

It is rather obvious that most of my posts are FULL of information, not emotional rants.
I do not even express emotion, such as hatred, for the drug.
Rather, I treat MDMA with an objectivity that is rare among those on both sides of the fence.

I aim to teach information, not preach dogma.

What I contribute is largely fact mixed in with few opinions.

After months of digesting medical data, I have to say - much of it points to the SAME conclusion. There are overwhelming and overlapping trends that support the idea that MDMA causes 'brain damage'. This was known in the 90s, and tons of nebulous research has continued to point to this conclusion. It is the extent of damage and the implications that are still at debate.

This damage is unique compared to other forms, but it IS damage.
Most people go on with their lives and behave normally, even after long periods of intense anxiety/depression. Cognitive deficiencies that remain are usually subtle.

The subtlety of these changes, of this 'damage', is responsible for the lack of understanding among users, in my 'Mr. Ecstasy' opinion.

If the negative effects weren't so gradual, it wouldn't be so well tolerated, would it?

I do not spew 'hatred' about MDMA, and you know it.
But you seem to 'hate' a solid, data-based presentation that convicts MDMA of harm.

Do you 'hate' raw data and truth?

Do you have ANY idea how many people on Bluelight have come to me, desperate for help?

In a period of about 4 months, I have only posted a little over a hundred times. But the content of my posts is such that almost a dozen sufferers of MDMA have come to me in PMs asking, sometimes begging, for help.

Many others have sought help in postings directly, while some not even in need of help expressed how grateful they were for such detailed information. It would seem that quite a few people disagree with your opinion of me.

I am contributing something highly beneficial to this community, and I did it because I knew I was capable. My reaction to MDMA was extreme, but it did not eliminate my intelligence or ability to communicate. Learning what happened to me was important, but I learned so much more...

I have helped a LOT of people in a very SHORT period of time.
Regardless of what you think about my stance, you cannot deny this.
Nor can you effectively argue against my assertions.

You just don't like the certainty with which I present my arguments.
That's ok, I don't need you to.

If it really matters, I will contribute a concession.
MDMA has a positive side.
It must, for this discussion to even take place.

The truth is, most hardcore drugs have a positive side.
Many users of other drugs will pontificate on the multiple benefits they find.
Some will proclaim safety, as well.

I have had powerful positive experiences on MDMA, just like many others.
It is the ONLY reason I was foolish enough to underestimate its risks.
While MDMA is usually 'safe', when it does go wrong it can go VERY wrong.

While I look back at most of my MDMA experiences as 'positive', even 'amazing'; I would trade every single one of them to undo what happened.

You will not be 'bothered' with any more PMs, I can assure you.
But I will respond to your foolishness wherever I see it.
What do you really expect when you post pro-MDMA bullshit to an OP that is clearly having problems?

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Sociable - I agree, I am a unique case.

But there is STRONG evidence that repeat recreational users are doing damage to their 'brain-gut' connection.
Just because this damage is well tolerated, does not mean it is insignificant.
Re-dosing is the clearest risk factor.

I'm glad you didn't re-dose.

 

[MasterSplinter]

Splinters Thoughts (With MasterSplinter)

None of this is just in my 'head'.
The 're-wiring' is happening, and I can feel it.

I bet you can hear your hair "growing" too rite?

Seriously bro, your brain re-wires itself all the time...

Every time you learn something new, get excited, get angry/happy/sad, fuck, sleep, read, eat a new food, get too drunk, etc etc etc etc

Fuck yeah your going to re-wire your brain if you make a habit of ANYTHING in this world, good or bad.

Competely natural stuff. Nothing new.

Im sorry it hits you so hard...but I think you are re-wiring your OWN brain moar than any of us. You seem to be obsessed with selectively educating yourself with pieces of random facts you have assembled to convince yourself it was the MDMA and not you.

But guess what dude?

Your fucked. And it aint the beans...because your talkin to a guy who ate alot more than you for several years and am already over abusing.

Ater 4 months of MDMA sobriety, I feel much brighter than ever before. Life is going good for me currently.

I am re-wiring my brain every day I get to live in my excellence! :D

Aint nuthin Ive done in the past that would have changed that.

Ive always been happy growin up, I got sidetracked with MDMA for a bit, and now Im back on the road again living life happy and normal.

Feels good.

How you feelin bud?

 

[trancerage]

First come down... I think you are right in some points, I think the others are too...

Have you seen this ones?

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-20-most-dangerous-drugs/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ecstasy-rising/

how do you feel about those ones?

 

[Legerity]

If you feel that MDMA has caused problems that you are still dealing with then the safest decision is of course to avoid it. You can't predict with any certainty how you will react. Given that you are still feeling fragile and that you feel MDMA contributed to this, it doesn't seem like there would be much benefit to using it again and that it could potentially open up doors that you have closed for a while.

I can relate a lot to your experience because I have a tendency to use MDMA and other stimulants frequently and am prone to experiencing high levels of anxiety. Frequent use of stimulants and anxiety certainly don't go well in my experience

 

[ChronicHD]

Frequent use of stimulants and anxiety certainly don't go well in my experience

This is true in my experience.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Here we go...

Wow...
Apparently posting too many facts about MDMA, to an OP dealing with long-term consequences of heavy MDMA use, is just an invitation for multiple attacks.
Not very surprising...

Trancerage - I will respond to your thoughtful post after dealing with someone that still idolizes the The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...

Master Splinter - I am fucking Shredder. :D

Ok...maybe I should be Splinter and you should be Shredder, since I am the one claiming all the wisdom here...

But seriously, dude, try to listen.
I know its hard, but try...

You were rude during your opening because you don't like the content of my posts, not because you can stand against them. This is verified by the remainder of your post.

You are correct in saying 'your brain re-wires itself all the time'.
The brain has been shown to be a highly plastic organ, but this does not deal with ANY of my stronger assertions about MDMA.

MDMA, quite clearly causes a type of 're-wiring' that goes FAR beyond the typical 'all the time' bullshit you are referring to. It is NOT akin to the aging process or normal life events.

Animal MDMA research has shown PROFOUND loss of innervation in the 5-HT system, one of the most complex and important neurotrasmitter systems in all brains!

The human brain scans seen by MDMA researchers have revealed blood flow that closely resembles that seen in the elderly. While this does not happen in ALL users, it DOES happen. And many users experience a less pronounced effect. Although this is temporary, it is also profound - it has not been seen in young people in such numbers ANYWHERE else.

Occasionally, or rarely, it can cause a drastic INCREASE in blood flow that lasts a LONG time. This is directly correlated to major symptoms. This is accepted as a sign of toxicity, or nerve damage.

This is not some 'random' research - I chose the blood distribution scans because they represent a level of complex information that we strive for in other types of research. The 'holes in the brain' theory was, unfortunately, a misquote of these findings...

You might try to argue that this is something the brain is capable of adapting to and its all good, bro...

But, no.

Even if the brain can adapt to this, which it does, this does NOT indicate MDMA is equivalent to something that 'happens all the time'!

You might as well go around saying,
"Motorcycle injuries happen all the time, dude. You are talking to someone that has them on purpose! And guess what? I feel smarter and brighter now than I did before. :D"

Even the heaviest known user of MDMA in medical history (40,000 pills) was UNAWARE of his own short-term memory problems 7 years into abstinence - http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/apr/04/drugsandalcohol.drugs1

"The doctors discovered that the man was suffering from severe short-term memory problems of a type usually only seen in lifetime alcoholics. But evaluating the full extent of his condition was difficult as his concentration and attention was so impaired he was unable to follow the simple tasks involved in the test.

"This was an exceptional case. His long-term memory was fine but he could not remember day to day things - the time, the day, what was in his supermarket trolley," said Dr Kouimtsidis. "More worryingly, he did not seem aware himself that he had these memory problems.""

The last sentence is the one I wish to draw your attention to.
Yes, the brain is plastic and it re-wires itself constantly.
It is SO good at this, that it can fool you.

How much of an argument does that really serve, then?
Just because you can acclimate to the changes without realizing it, doesn't mean they are harmless.

Also, in the same story, it is said that, "The heaviest previous lifetime intake on record is 2,000 pills."

This was written in 2006, well after the first wave of MDMA abuse in the late 90s.

What does this say about Chitown's assertion that he is FINE after 1000 doses?
Oh, and of course he can point to others that have taken EVEN MORE, without problems...

Both of you sound rather foolish, even like teenagers.

Funny thing is - there will likely be teenagers that read this post and chose to be smarter about their usage!

Ok....
Really, this is not meant as a personal attack, but it WAS meant to be a strong argument. I can't believe you guys actually bother fighting me in threads like this...

The reason I even bother with MDMA-lovers like yourselves, is because you are impacting the decision-making process of new users.
You cannot go unopposed in this regard - not while I am here.

There is no reason, whatsoever, to spread the belief that HEAVY use is OK.
You have no excuse - shame on both of you!

Yes.... I do believe that the brain is a powerful organ, capable of unreasonable levels of adaptation.
Indeed, I hope to one day return to Bluelight and proclaim that I am 'better than I was before!'
I really do.

But that would not invalidate the intense, life-changing experience I have been through in the last 7 months. It wouldn't alter the truth - I, and many others, have experienced 'brain damage' from MDMA.

There is NOTHING you can say to effectively oppose this - not in regards to ME or the countless others that claim the same. The fact that you attempt to, is a sign of your misjudgement.

In fact, both Master Splinter AND Chitown can be seen making posts in the past that illustrate pretty serious symptoms.
They simply chose to carry on and continue using MDMA.
Surely, the symptoms were not as extreme as mine, but they were real.

Of course, they both reached a point of 'taking a break'.
Strange, how they don't conceded this when arguing with me...

I am a 29 year old man with a college degree, not another kid piecing together random studies. I am married to an unbelievably beautiful woman and I have a 3 year old little girl. I am in excellent physical condition and I have always been a bright person.
I believe I could have been a doctor.
I have something to offer, for those who listen.

I am enjoying life more each day, since you asked.
Believe that.
I will continue to elucidate the recovery process for some time to come.

I was once in a frantic search for information.
I learned much during those first three months.
My continued research takes place at a much more moderate pace.
Now, I aim to teach.

But will you listen?

 

[somedud]

BOOM!

To bad I can't join in, I love arguing, but I like both you and mastersplinter, so I'm out.

BUT I do agree with BOTH of you to an extent. I believe I suffered brain damage from my usage, as hard as that is to admit, I have.

I also believe it's over rated, just a tad. Alot off these studies aim for neurotoxicty, and not "safeness" of use. They use the methods they KNOW will produce the symptoms and outcomes that they were funded to find.

They use parts that were most damaged as the "norm". Plus FBC, the ricaurate study you refer to, no not the meth, the MDMA study, was "methodologically flawed". Ive read about it before, and ecstasy rising video has scientists that back this up.

I also have studies of full, if not 90% recovery of SERT in ALL brain regions (average times used was appx 284 TIMES), with prolonged abstinence, and other studies claiming very little brain damage, that repairs with time.

So it's hard to assume INCREDIBLE, mass destruction that these slides depict, cause if that were the case, for one thered be AlOT of fucked up cats out there, and two, almost every casual e user would have major sleep/anxiety/depression issues, which they don't. Plus I rolled once, and dropped 11 pills, I redosed 10 times in one night (4 years ago), and I was fine two weeks later. That completely discredits SO many studies. I've also popped and drank so mch that I've black out, and I've been fine after, until two years post that point when I abused weekly for a while.

So it swings both ways, im not as extreme as FBC believes, nor as harmless as MS believes, I'm comfortably optimistic in the middle.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Okay...I have seen the 'Ecstasy Rising' documentary and I have read the research behind the '20 Most Dangerous Drugs'.

Both are decent in terms of historical/cultural content.
Very light on raw scientific data, though.

The fact is, even for countless scientists, the field of MDMA research is nebulous and difficult to traverse. Why should we expect the rest of us to get it?

I DO agree that MDMA causes less harm than alcohol, tobacco, and METH.
This is largely due to the wide-spread use and addictive qualities of these drugs.
MDMA is relatively uncommon in terms of usage, and most users do not binge.

If MDMA were as widely available as alcohol and as addictive as tobacco and METH, do you think that MDMA would have such a 'safety' record?

Reports on MDMA often focus on the rare occasion of death associated with its use.
Although the cascade of events leading to death is EXTREME, sudden, and fascinating to doctors, it is relatively rare. But not that rare...

Focusing on this mantra - death - draws focus away from the profound scientific data that has been WELL established. Do you really think that TV viewers want to hear about the nebulous and technical data? It would take HOURS to present...

Of course not, it has to be well-packaged and easily understood.
That is something I strive to do here on BL...

The fact is, doctors are continuing to study the effects of MDMA.
If you read the meta-studies, you find that a large body of evidence that took decades to develop, is slowly becoming more clear.

And the answer is simple enough to package - MDMA, especially with repeated use, is causing permanent alterations in the 'brain-gut' circuitry. Mood disturbances are very common among regular users. Some users claim major depression, while others experience extreme clinical symptoms that often take two years to resolve.

Brain scans of blood distribution, as well as glucose metabolism, illustrate the loss of function in several brain regions - notably the Prefrontal Cortex. For some, this is long-lasting.
Animal research that directly examines the 5-HT system, supports this.

The sudden damage caused to this network in some users, can cause sudden and violent death.
It is theorized that in many of these victims, their fate is caused by an immune system response, rather than by direct neurotoxic damage.

Now, we are waiting on a generation of MDMA users to age.
There is sufficient evidence to believe that a large number are living with 'damage' or 'adaptations' to the 5-HT system. Although it is normally difficult to differentiate this group, this may change with age.

The documentary on MDMA twenty years from now is the one we need to worry about.
Right now, there is simply not enough data.

For what its worth, I hope that 're-wiring' has little effect upon our lives.
This may be hopeful thinking, but we shall see.
Like I said, I will return later on to complete my contribution...

 

[rebinator]

I gauge my personal short-term-memory-status by how many digits I can keep in my head at work simultaneously. It varies from 8 to 10 (your mileage will as well) depending on conductivity (which is dependent on how well I treat my brain).

Turns out that serotonin, being a tryptamine, is detected by those same receptors that guage mystique and wonder. The math has been done, but trust me when I say that one can do sub-to-par-recreational dosages of psychedelic amphetamines regularly _provided_ one accounts for the free-radicals and also assures oneself at least one full REM session between. I think there was a study just done which found absolutely _no_ cognitive change from baseline for regular MDMA-exclusive-users... as for the drinkers/multi-users, good luck; the benefit is that one feels like drinking much less while rolling (if at all).

as for 13 pills at a time, SWIM did that when SWIM was a little confused, and perhaps unfamiliar with the actual mechanisms underlying increased neurotransmitter release/ inhibited reuptake thereof. As for depression, that was par for the course in the days of learning what works.

What works is less Molly on the roll (ironically, even double the threshold dosage can completely kill the roll, replacing it with but an echo), a handfull of fishoil a day, and full, balanced multivitamin supplementation. And sleep. Most of the brain maintenance which we experience occurs while enjoying REM sleep. For those for whom some damage seems to have been done (and measurable), some form of Pyrrolidine-based nootropic regimen is in order.

Your brain is fine. It's not like you were drinking petrol whilst smoking rocksalt, sticking crayons up your nose, or watching tv.

 

[chitown rollin]

First Bad Comedown it's cool that you want to educate people on something that you are obviously so educated on, but there's no need to act like you're better than others because you read a bunch of books on MDMA for months... if anything I would make fun of you for that. You come off as condescending and arrogant and I really don't see why. Chill the fuck out and stop being an asshole. Thanks.