Your thoughts on Steroids in Pro Sports

[Care]

So I just got done watching 60 minutes. This week was about Lance Armstrong and the accusations against him of long time steroid use. Evidently many people were in on it, including the rest of the american cycling team and training staff.

This is just the most recent in a long list of high profile athletes that have been caught using PED's. And as professional sports grow bigger and bigger, and drugs keep getting more effective and difficult to detect, it will only get more rampant. Ill tell you right now that even though our Olympic athletes test clean come time for the olympics, there is no way they are getting so much stronger and faster every 4 years just from hard work.

Many athletes these days find themselves hitting a wall in their progression, and see steroids as the only way to improve themselves at this thing that they have dedicated their lives to being the best at. Honestly I dont envy the decision they have to make (cheat or lose). And its not really fair to have steroids be illegal, while the methods for detecting them are not foolproof. SO basically all the high profile athletes that get alot of attention are the ones who get busted, even though almost everyone is doing it.

Pretty fucked up situation if you ask me, what do you guys think?

 

[Busty St Clare]

I don't see it as simply "cheating". People argue about level playing fields but where does one decide what is a supplement and what is a performance enhancing drug? Is using a newly discovered vitamin cheating when you are the only one who knows about it? Today 1% improvement is the often the difference between winning and finishing third. Is it any fairer when someone has access to a new technology such as a faster bike or hydration system?

A drug is only illegal when it is placed on a list. I was given a box full of vials by a club doctor after I was injured. When I asked if I would be tested for it they just laughed and in broken English said, "Not for five years". For me it wasn't a matter of cheating it was a way to heal and get back onto the field. Today I have some numbness of my fingers but without a doubt those injections helped me regain a quality of life I wouldn't otherwise have today. I played conceding often 30-40kg, it could hardly be argued that I gained an advantage.

Personally I believe drug testing is always many years behind the current treatments. EPO was so widespread in cycling 10 years ago it could be argued that it was a level playing field. If you wanted a pure competition you should also ensure that every rider was on identical bikes, ate the same food and only trained 6 hours a every day.

 

[23536]

I'm doing a cycle right now of some novel shit. I'm not sure it would be detected if I were competing.

I don't know any professional or olympic athletes, but I'd bet money on the fact that many of them are on some type of yet-untested-for PED. Look man: look at Bluelight and the RC universe and how many thousands of legal highs have been formulated. I mean, how many improvisations have been made on the phenylethylamine skeleton alone? Just think now: the more complex cholesterol skeleton allows for much more improvisation.

(Lance Armstrong is mainly being accused of using EPO)

 

[23536]

I think older athletes should be allowed to use HGH for purposes of healing from injuries. See excellent article on Bartolo Colon and stem cell therapy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/s...-colons-comeback.html?scp=3&sq=bartolo&st=cse

 

[Care]

EPO was so widespread in cycling 10 years ago it could be argued that it was a level playing field.

Yes, which is why i disagree with having laws that we cannot enforce (ban on PEDs) because then the only ones who the law really applies to are the ones at the top of their sport because they get the most attention. No one would care if Lance Armstrong was on steroids if he was some no name 30th place finisher.

I don't see it as simply "cheating". People argue about level playing fields but where does one decide what is a supplement and what is a performance enhancing drug? Is using a newly discovered vitamin cheating when you are the only one who knows about it? Today 1% improvement is the often the difference between winning and finishing third. Is it any fairer when someone has access to a new technology such as a faster bike or hydration system?

I think alot of the fear of steroids comes from an older generation that only knew how to train "the old fashioned way" and they see messing with hormones as something that is unnatural that doesnt belong in sports. These are the people that generally make the rules, and they dont want to see steroids in sports because then everyone would have to use them to be competitive. But the reality is that we (especially americans) are so in love with our sports and put so much emphasis on winning that atheletes with multi million dollar contracts (or the potential to get one) see the risk/reward of taking steroids and the choice is a no-brainer.

Steroids are not the only thing that is banned in professional competition either. Things that up your red blood cell count like sleeping at high altitudes or getting a transfusion are also banned in most sports.

And as far as severely injured players are concerned they should definitely use any means necessary to recover. I think where the controversy on this topic lies is with athletes that make themselves better than they could naturally be by using steroids.

 

[kaywholed]

I think there should be two categories for competition. Those who dope and the au naturel category.

I think it would be awesome to see crazy roid enhanced fighters throw down.

 

[Care]

I think there should be two categories for competition. Those who dope and the au naturel category.

I think it would be awesome to see crazy roid enhanced fighters throw down.

Thats is one idea. However I think it wouldn't take long for the "natural league" to go the way of womens sports if you know what i mean.

Which brings up another good point. If the fans interest is what matters in pro sports, and most fans want to see the biggest baddest motherfuckers competing, then why ban steroids?

 

[Pegasus]

^I don't think most fans want this. People that don't use drugs surely don't want to expose their families to chemically enhanced monsters... family values and all that.

OT-- I think using steroids for healing purposes is totally reasonable, but using them for enhancement is not in the spirit of sport, IMO/ ITOOM.

 

[Care]

People that don't use drugs surely don't want to expose their families to chemically enhanced monsters... family values and all that.

They already do though..... its just been kept quiet.

OT-- I think using steroids for healing purposes is totally reasonable, but using them for enhancement is not in the spirit of sport, IMO/ ITOOM.

The thing is that having rules against steroids doesnt stop people from taking steroids because we cannot reliably test for them, so the ones who end up getting punished are superstars that find themselves under the media microscope (lance armstrong, marian jones, barry bonds ect) even though almost everyone is doing it.

 

[aanallein]

Seems ridiculous to make it so that you are either are going to lose or be a liar who risks their entire career to compete. The system is flawed so a new system is obviously needed. If that means legalize them, so be it, but what I would prefer is that the sports leagues be forced (ie, taxed) to contribute large amounts of money to research. If certain chemicals are dangerous, find out, tell the public, trainers, and athletes, and tell them in no uncertain terms that they risk death if they use them (specifying dangerous dose levels, combinations, conditions, etc.) and point out less risky alternatives instead..

Fact is that people will do whatever is necessary to win. We need to somehow accept that and yet still embrace a culture of harm reduction.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Fact is that people will do whatever is necessary to win. We need to somehow accept that and yet still embrace a culture of harm reduction.

Fucking A. You're a teacher right? That's a fucking A.


Anybody interested in this should watch the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster". It states everything I would state, but much more eloquently.

They need to be allowed.

 

[Care]

^yea i saw that one, was pretty good.

The one guys biceps are hilariously big.

 

[aanallein]

Fucking A. You're a teacher right? That's a fucking A.


Anybody interested in this should watch the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster". It states everything I would state, but much more eloquently.

They need to be allowed.

Yeah that's a pretty good documentary and yeah I'm a teacher. With how much pro athletes are paid and how much is riding on them - it only makes sense that harm reduction makes business sense if nothing else. What interest does the NFL have in having its players use ephedra? None - it's a dangerous chemical that has negatives which outweigh the positives (I say this from personal experience with it). Congress shouldn't give a shit if the players use ephedra or even methamphetamine but I can sure as hell see the employers caring because they have profit margins to look out for.

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

^^yeah I've seen that doc. as well, pretty good, but the narrators voice annoyed the shit outta me.

Seems ridiculous to make it so that you are either are going to lose or be a liar who risks their entire career to compete.

The fact is, people who use steroids aren't competing. They're sticking needles in their ass which make them bigger, stronger and faster without actually working hard and achieving it honorably.

IMO steroids are corrupting sports. Sport are supposed to be about enjoying and recognizing hard work and competition. When you throw steroids into the mix the playing field gets slanted, and the game becomes one sided. Steroids is the opposite of sportsmanship.

Things like steroids and money are changing the purpose of sport, it changes sportsmanship, equal competition and athletes start playing not for love of the game, but because they're getting paid massive amounts of money to do it.

The whole NFL lockout thing is a perfect example of corruption in sports.

Pegasus is spot on

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

^Start taking steroids and see what it does for you.

Will it make you ripped like Ray Lewis? Probably not. Will it give you hops like Derrick Rose? Fuck no. Will it even get you into good shape? It all depends on whether you work out hard or not from the get-go.

PED's of all kinds are not magic pills that will turn you from Danny DeVito into LeBron fucking James. They enhance performance, yes, but by how much is overstated. Only in professional sports does that 1-2% difference really matter so much.

We've only allowed them to corrupt sports because we have made them illegal. Fact of the matter is, if we legalized them and regulated the way athletes take them, all of us would get what we want:

1. A level playing field. Modern day PED's do not come with a lot of dangers when taken under medical supervision, so it would be a very rare athlete who cannot afford to take them for medical reasons. I would guess most athletes in any sport take something anyways, so the playing field is pretty much level anyways, to be honest with you.

2. All of the plays and types of athletes we want to see. Barry Bonds, asshole that he is, gave baseball one of it's most compelling stories before he was accused of everything. Baseball also self-destructed at that moment. People found out everyone was on them, and all of America's heroes became cheaters.

You can bet football and basketball do not want to open that can of worms. Baseball was the sacrificial lamb in all of this. I'm willing to venture a guess that LeBron probably takes steroids. Maybe even Dwayne Wade. Rose? Yeah, why not? Everybody else is doing it.

In the NFL we already know that everybody is on it. We just try and look the other way.

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

^^the fact is it doesn't display sportsmanship. I agree with what ur sayin, and I know steroids won't magically make you better without some sort of training, but it's not honest and doesn't display integrity.

With the amount of kids who look up to athletes as role models, it's not right to let them think they can cheat on hard work by cutting corners to be better than everyone else. Fact is steroid use doesn't guarantee honest competition in sports, and if people don't think there's honesty in sport then sports lose their purpose. Sports are about integrity and love of the game which steroids don't promote.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Sports are about integrity and love of the game which steroids don't promote.

Sports are about genetics. Fact of that matter is, no matter how many steroids I took, no matter how hard I ever worked, there would be no way I would ever play professionally in anything. I didn't get the genes. I'm willing to guess that you don't have them either, or else you probably wouldn't be posting on a drug forum (I mean no offense by this statement, so don't take it personally).

Plenty of players hate the game. They were just given the gift of athletic talent. And there are a few players who do not work hard and are superstars. Look at Shaq, for example. He got 4 championships and may be the laziest guy in the game. All he has going for him is that he is 7'2 and had the knees to hold that frame up for over a decade. Hard work and love don't mean shit. It's all about the hand you were dealt.

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

Sports are about genetics. Fact of that matter is, no matter how many steroids I took, no matter how hard I ever worked, there would be no way I would ever play professionally in anything. I didn't get the genes. I'm willing to guess that you don't have them either, or else you probably wouldn't be posting on a drug forum (I mean no offense by this statement, so don't take it personally).

Actually I played center field up through high school, not because I was born with the natural ability to play baseball, because I practiced. Just because I post on a drug forum doesn't mean I'm not athletic, I'm 5'8, 150, 8% body fat, I'm a registered boxer and a certified personal trainer; with 3 years experience at the YMCA. I could've done anything I wanted. I don't know what you were trying to say there.

Plenty of players hate the game. They were just given the gift of athletic talent. And there are a few players who do not work hard and are superstars. Look at Shaq, for example. He got 4 championships and may be the laziest guy in the game. All he has going for him is that he is 7'2 and had the knees to hold that frame up for over a decade. Hard work and love don't mean shit. It's all about the hand you were dealt.

Thats such ignorance. Sure some players are as good as they are because of what their body is like, but you can't say that's the majority. When I say sports are about integrity and honesty, I'm talking about the concept of sport. It's about honest competition to see who is superior in an event. Steroids and performance enhancing drugs aren't honest.

To say sports is about genetics is bullshit. What about Jim Abbot or Chad Bentz, both were one handed major league pitchers. I'm pretty sure genetics weren't pushing them towards baseball. theres a professional skateboarder who has no legs! The recruitment of all these gigantic kids who are naturally good at knocking people down is because of money and the overcommercialization of everything sports. People want to win because they get paid more, agents want to sign young kids because the younger they are, the more of a career he has to make money off him.

The reason players hate the game is because of how much money has influenced every aspect of sports, from high school to the pros. Money and drugs have corrupted sports and turned them into what they are today.

The concept of sport and the fundamentals of it were based on integrity, honesty and sportsmanship. Sports were originally attractive because it was fair competition. Why do you think boxing has died down so much over the past 20 or 30 years, because people started fixing fights and the public doesn't want to watch something that's rigged from the beginning. That's the beauty of sport, is the honesty and the comradery, so when players get caught fixing games, corking bats or taking performance enhancing drugs, people get in an uproar because it goes against everything sports were built on.

 

[Care]

Money and drugs have corrupted sports and turned them into what they are today.

Its totally valid to have that opinion, but the question is what do you propose we do about it? People aren't just going to all at once decide to be fair and stop taking steroids, and I dont see the big $ leaving pro sports any time soon. The only level playing field left is to legalize and regulate steroids IMO.

Barry Bonds, asshole that he is

Lol, all barry bonds ever did was play baseball and take steroids like everybody else, the media just made him out to be the bad guy because at the time we didnt know mcguire, sosa ect were all on steroids during their run. Haters gonna hate. I'm sure as a heat fan youre sick and tired of everybody hating on lebron for switching teams even though tons of free agents swap teams every year and dont catch any flak for it.

Thats such ignorance. Sure some players are as good as they are because of what their body is like, but you can't say that's the majority.

I disagree, there are very few "try hard" guys left in pro sports where physicality is important. I can only think of a few guy in football with that mentality (ray lewis, troy polamalu) of going 100% every play even though they aren't the biggest guys.

In order to be successful in pro sports you really need the perfect storm of genetics, training, nutrition and enhancement.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Lol, all barry bonds ever did was play baseball and take steroids like everybody else, the media just made him out to be the bad guy because at the time we didnt know mcguire, sosa ect were all on steroids during their run. Haters gonna hate. I'm sure as a heat fan youre sick and tired of everybody hating on lebron for switching teams even though tons of free agents swap teams every year and dont catch any flak for it.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think Bonds is an asshole because he took steroids. I don't give a shit about that.

Maybe I came down a bit harsh on the dude, but he just doesn't seem like a very nice guy. Maybe I'm projecting a little bit too much, and maybe my opinion comes from the countless interviews of him I have seen where the media just harasses him over and over again til he breaks down, going so far as to do a paparazzi type interview where they blindsided him in front of his kid. No fucking consideration for the guy at all. That kind of shit can cause the nicest person in the world lash out. So perhaps I should reexamine my opinion of him.

Still, I'm on his side. And I don't really give a fuck how he is as a person when it comes to athletics. I go to the same pharmacy as Michael Irvin, and he is a douche in person (although very good with kids) but he is still one of my motherfucking heroes.